Is it legal to sell Minetest as is?

[srutzky]

I just came across this offering in the Microsoft Windows app store:

minetest 5.2
sold by: ‪Samej_Play‬
price: $3.69 USD

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/minet ... z5p9fhdg1m


I know that projects based on the code can be sold under certain conditions, but I wasn't sure if selling it as "minetest", especially using the logo, was allowed. I didn't think so but figured I should ask before reporting this item.

[rubenwardy]

I have reported it but never received a response. The problem is using our name, rather than selling Minetest

[srutzky]

Thanks for the quick reply. Sad that someone can simply change the name and sell other peoples hard work without doing anything. I guess the only way around that is for this group to publish the official installer on the Windows app store, labelled as "official".

For now, I have also reported that game.

[Quiark]

Wait until you see what AWS is doing with reselling open source projects as their services, at scale.

[parasite]

As there is no official (and stable) communication channel, the Minetest team has no way of formally responding to something like this, for examnple by publishing an official statement with warning against the possible source of viruses, trojans and scams at pointed app store ;(

[runs]

I just came across this offering in the Microsoft Windows app store:

minetest 5.2
sold by: ‪Samej_Play‬
price: $3.69 USD

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/minet ... z5p9fhdg1m


I know that projects based on the code can be sold under certain conditions, but I wasn't sure if selling it as "minetest", especially using the logo, was allowed. I didn't think so but figured I should ask before reporting this item.

Open Source allows:

- Selling without limits.
- The ONLY condition is to publish the code.
- Don't contribute anything if you don't want to.
- Whether they add viruses or not is irrelevant to Open Source, there is nothing to say. Except that you have to publish the source code of the virus, LOL.

[runs]

I have reported it but never received a response. The problem is using our name, rather than selling Minetest

But isn't Minetest 100% Open Source? If the brand "Minetest" or the LOGO cannot be used then it is not 100%, maybe 99%.

It doesn't seem right to me. The name or the LOGO should be changed, so that it is in accordance with the Open Source philosophy.

Anyone should be able to download from github (without any changing) and sell Minetest for $1, $10 or $10,000,000. Stallman dixit... ;-D

[TumeniNodes]

The licensing requires:
That the code be provided (or a link to it), as well as a copy of the license, itself.
This would be something to contact a consumer protection bureau about tbh. It will at least hopefully give a heads up, and maybe someone will look into it

[TumeniNodes]

I have reported it but never received a response. The problem is using our name, rather than selling Minetest

But isn't Minetest 100% Open Source? If the brand "Minetest" or the LOGO cannot be used then it is not 100%, maybe 99%.

It doesn't seem right to me. The name or the LOGO should be changed, so that it is in accordance with the Open Source philosophy.

Anyone should be able to download from github (without any changing) and sell Minetest for $1, $10 or $10,000,000. Stallman dixit... ;-D

Stallman is a shitbum

[runs]

I have reported it but never received a response. The problem is using our name, rather than selling Minetest

But isn't Minetest 100% Open Source? If the brand "Minetest" or the LOGO cannot be used then it is not 100%, maybe 99%.

It doesn't seem right to me. The name or the LOGO should be changed, so that it is in accordance with the Open Source philosophy.

Anyone should be able to download from github (without any changing) and sell Minetest for $1, $10 or $10,000,000. Stallman dixit... ;-D

Stallman is a shitbum

Me too :-D

[Nininik]

NAH, micro$()Ft is our enemy.

[sorcerykid]

Open-sourcing of software typically pertains only to the copyright. So the Minetest brand name can still be considered intellectual property of the Minetest project team and protected by trademark law, while the source code and assets remain open-source.

"As such, an open source author may choose to openly license her project’s copyrights and patents while still enforcing her trademarks. Trademark enforcement is not inconsistent with open source principles: it restricts how a brand identifier can be used, rather than restricting what you can do with the open source code."

https://google.github.io/opencasebook/trademarks/

[Festus1965]

example :
I buy a cheap usb empty stick,
then I copy minetest on it
and sell this usb stick 50% more expensive (with a free gift)

have fun.
the plus price is as of my hard work to copy !

[cx384]

example :
I buy a cheap usb empty stick,
then I copy minetest on it
and sell this usb stick 50% more expensive (with a free gift)

have fun.
the plus price is as of my hard work to copy !

I don't think this makes much sense with minetest, but with Linux distros this is actually a common thing.
Just search for "linux usb" on any online market.
Back in the days, it may have been useful to buy Linux CD/DVDs, if you don't have a CD/DVD burner, and you can't reuse the storage medium anyway. However, the Linux USB sticks are a scam in my opinion, considering how easy it is to create them by yourself.

[Blockhead]

However, the Linux USB sticks are a scam in my opinion, considering how easy it is to create them by yourself.

"Pre-chopped pre-packaged chopped vegetables in the supermarket are a scam in my opinion, considering how easy it is to cut them up by yourself".

"Pre-shredded cheese is a scam in my opinion, considering how easy it is to grate cheese"

Just because a step in production adds little value or takes little effort, that doesn't make it a scam. It's more of a laziness tax.

None of this is to invalidate how the Microsoft store copy is a lazy cash grab, and it's even worse that it's still 5.2 and probably doesn't include the source code (could be okay I suppose as long as the "source offer" is just the official Minetest source code on GitHub...).

[cx384]

Just because a step in production adds little value or takes little effort, that doesn't make it a scam. It's more of a laziness tax.

Good point, but you could say the same about Minetest inside the Microsoft store. An easy (and expensive) install for lazy people?

"Pre-chopped pre-packaged chopped vegetables in the supermarket are a scam in my opinion, considering how easy it is to cut them up by yourself".

"Pre-shredded cheese is a scam in my opinion, considering how easy it is to grate cheese"

I agree to those statement if the price of chopped vegetables or shredded cheese is significantly higher compared to the unprocessed versions. Also, cutting vegetables and cheese is not that easy, especially if you need a lot of them, for example for organizing a party. But I'm probably just biased, because for me it is more fun to create Linux USB sticks than cutting vegetables.

None of this is to invalidate how the Microsoft store copy is a lazy cash grab, and it's even worse that it's still 5.2 and probably doesn't include the source code (could be okay I suppose as long as the "source offer" is just the official Minetest source code on GitHub...).

Since it still hasn't been removed for more than 3 years, legal actions may be the last hope, but I don't think anyone is willing to do this and it's probably not worth the effort.

[Festus1965]

... USB sticks are a scam in my opinion, considering how easy it is to create them by yourself.

Yes, you got the point, but too much people are not willing to search for alternatives and then they pay the price.
We just had here a actual famous user, that gave up with git upload after 2 times.
I have several attempts on my server to join, some of them over 5-7 try and the password ist 'just' 2 clicks webpages far, but they don't come back.
So are humans.

So the question about the selling of Minetest 5.2 is now, is it just a price for the easier or special offer = the price is the cost like the USB ? How difficult or expensive to put a Software there ?

[Blockhead]

Scams imply a kind of fraud - misrepresentation. Getting ripped off in price might look a bit like fraud, but just think about the difference in prices between a corner store and a megamart, or the price of video games in Australia versus the price in Brazil. Variation in price is not sufficient to be considered fraud.

What I think is the actual fraud is that it isn't 100% obvious that "minetest 5.2" on Microsoft Store isn't actually from the Minetest.net project/core developers, and that it doesn't state that it's GPL software.

...

But I'm probably just biased, because for me it is more fun to create Linux USB sticks than cutting vegetables.

There's software tools for automating making a lot of USB drives, and tools for quickly chopping a lot of vegetables. People in a hurry will pay a lot more for pre-made or part-made food. It's not a scam, it's what you do if you're money-rich and time-poor. Say all you want about how ethical you think it is to charge a premium for putting a mix of vegetables through a mandoline/industrial slicer and into plastic packaging, or writing umpteen USB drives per minute with Linux ISOs, people are going to pay if they're lazy and it's not a form of fraud. In a supermarket the price of vegetables per unit weight is quite obviously labelled and usually not far from where the meal kits are, and buying a USB isn't most Linux users' preferred way to install because it's not free.*

... Microsoft store copy ...

Since it still hasn't been removed for more than 3 years, legal actions may be the last hope, but I don't think anyone is willing to do this and it's probably not worth the effort.

With 5.8 around the corner, hopefully it becomes more obvious over time just how outdated it is. There's really little you can do to help someone who won't Bing*** a game before paying for it though.


*I can say this as a Linux user.

**I use the term Bing instead of google because if you're going to buy Minetest on the Microsoft Store you probably don't have the usual healthy disdain for Edge and Bing and probably use them without a care in the world.

Spoiler

I know, I know, ChatGPT features and all that. But just remember when Microsoft did less than what they're doing now with pushing Edge back in the 90s, they got dragged over the coals with an antitrust suit. Now apparently nobody cares.