The Sneak Glitch is NOT dead!

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Wuzzy
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The Sneak Glitch is NOT dead!

by Wuzzy » Post

OMG, I have completely misunderstood this for years. This is BIG olds (the opposite of "news"). As you all know, the famous Sneak Glitch was removed for good years ago, right?

WRONG!
As it turns out, we all have misunderstood it completely. In reality, the Sneak Glitch was removed, but what we overlooked is that it was added back later, but optionally.

What has changed is that the Sneak Glitch is now optional and disabled by default. Games can enable it back at will. Also, what's even more interesting, you can do it on a per-player basis.

Don't call me stupid. I was aware of sneak_glitch in lua_api.txt for years, but I always assumed it was useless and did not change anything. Today I tested this stuff again and it actually worked as expected. Probably it was a bugfix that I overlooked.

Anyway, this is probably VERY exciting olds for some players out there since I know that many players loved the Sneak Glitch and were furious when it got fixed. (There was a reason to fix it, since games could not opt out of the Sneak Glitch at all, so it was rightfully treated as a bug. But today the Sneak Glitch is an actual feature that is completely optional.)

I have also completely updated the Minetest Wiki on sneaking for you:
https://wiki.minetest.net/Sneaking

I hope this information is helpful.

For modders: To get back the sneak glitch, check out set_physics_override in the documentation.
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TenPlus1
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Re: The Sneak Glitch is NOT dead!

by TenPlus1 » Post


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Re: The Sneak Glitch is NOT dead!

by Hume2 » Post

I missed the point of this thread. I understand that you don't like the sneak glitch, but why is it wrong to have it only as an option? If you don't like it, just don't use it.
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Krock
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Re: The Sneak Glitch is NOT dead!

by Krock » Post

Could it be that you simply forgot about this? viewtopic.php?t=17734
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Termos
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Re: The Sneak Glitch is NOT dead!

by Termos » Post

Hume2 wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:56
why is it wrong to have it only as an option? If you don't like it, just don't use it.
The glitch was the very first bump on the road I stumbled upon when trying to contribute. The second you come close to that steamy pile things get uphill, devs start to behave cryptic, looking funny at one another, communicating without words using emotes, and hinting you that coming near that crap is going to make your changes unlikely to merge.
Many bugs would have been fixed by now if not for the glitch. Had to revert changes fixing many localplayer problems like sneak, because to get them in I'd probably have to code in emulation of that bug which would be ridiculous.
Mere existence of that option makes thing worse for everyone.

It's not random internet kids' fault, it's their job to demand any random nonsense, but the devs' job is to know better and not give in. They FIU, sorry.

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Re: The Sneak Glitch is NOT dead!

by Wuzzy » Post

I am not against the Sneak Glitch when it is fully optional and controllable by the game. Which is the case. I know there are players and game authors who want this.

The reason for this thread was just to share my surprise and to point to the updated Sneaking wiki page. That's all.

And I think the fact that you can turn on/off the sneak-glitch on a per-player basis is very interesting.

@Krock: And yes, I really forgot that one mod from 4 years ago. xD
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Mantar
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Re: The Sneak Glitch is NOT dead!

by Mantar » Post

Termos wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 13:37
Many bugs would have been fixed by now if not for the glitch. Had to revert changes fixing many localplayer problems like sneak, because to get them in I'd probably have to code in emulation of that bug which would be ridiculous.
Sounds pernicious. Something like that ought to be pulled out and rewritten so it doesn't affect the rest of the code. Making it an option is fine if the devs want to do the work to support it, but leaving busted legacy code in place, bugs and all, just to support a silly feature like that seems wrongheaded to me.

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Re: The Sneak Glitch is NOT dead!

by rubenwardy » Post

Mantar wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 17:41
Sounds pernicious. Something like that ought to be pulled out and rewritten so it doesn't affect the rest of the code. Making it an option is fine if the devs want to do the work to support it, but leaving busted legacy code in place, bugs and all, just to support a silly feature like that seems wrongheaded to me.
The old movement code is there under an if statement, and incurs no real maintenance cost.

The new movement code contains an option for sneak glitch which is contained within an if statement, that isn't legacy code but a supported feature implemented correctly rather than a glitch.

I'm not really a fan of the option in the new code, but the option to use old movement is low cost and resolved the whole controversy of removing it

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Re: The Sneak Glitch is NOT dead!

by Termos » Post

rubenwardy wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 17:58
I'm not really a fan of the option in the new code
Then why is that option still there in the new code? Who are its fans who won't let fix this mess?

Paramat, of all people, who'd expect him to do the right thing and reopen the discussion about removing the bug emulation from the new code, yet it was him who did. But the only response he got from the rest of you guys was thumbs down emotes. I'm pretty sure I've seen one from you too, but it isn't there now, so let's just leave it at that.
rubenwardy wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 17:58
The new movement code contains an option for sneak glitch which is contained within an if statement
This is not isolation.
The sneak glitch is still dependent on specific problems within the rest of new move code, like setting player's collision box position so it intersects with nodes, a questionable design that leads to various other bugs. Fixing these problems makes the sneak glitch stop working.

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Re: The Sneak Glitch is NOT dead!

by Linuxdirk » Post

Image

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Re: The Sneak Glitch is NOT dead!

by cx384 » Post

To me sneak elevators were never a bug, glitch or how you want to call it and I'm happy that I can still use them.
They are a unique way in minetest to build stairways. I even think they are realistic and look like climbing walls.
Nowadays I still prefer them over ladders, vines, normal stairs or water elevators. They are very useful especially in very deep 1x1 mining holes.
Can your read this?

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