Discord is official now?!

User avatar
Wuzzy
Member
Posts: 4778
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 15:01
GitHub: Wuzzy2
IRC: Wuzzy
In-game: Wuzzy
Contact:

Discord is official now?!

by Wuzzy » Post

It has come to my attention that the Minetest Discord server has become official. I must have completely missed this development, but I am extremely disappointed!

Are we not worried that Minetest becomes more and more dependent on evil propiretary garbage software companies?

What's the point of Minetest as a free software game if at the end of day, it's nothing more than an advertisement platform for evil companies? It's bad enough that evil Android forks suck away players and $$$ from us. But this is worse. If free software doesn't mean that much to you anymore, we all might all just go straight for Minecraft instead … Absolutely laughable.

When will you finally take a bold stance against proprietary software for once?

I propose to remove the official status again. This means, none of the proprietary chat apps are officially endorsed or managed. To be clear: If players on their decide to go use any proprietary software, that's their problem, not mine. I am NOT dictating what you use. But I am saying that it's bad to bad encourage the use of Discord.

Reasons:
1) Ideological: Minetest is and always was a free software project. If we pointlessly depend on non-free software, that weakens us
2) Practical: Communication is key to any free software project. But if official channels are controlled by proprietary software, people bec. Our goal should be to get people used to free software. We DO have plenty of chat options available that are free. But if nobody uses them, they're worthless. We have to start somewhere
3) Habit: Our longterm goal should be to get people used to free software, rather than proprietary software. If we declare any proprietary service to be official, that sends a clear message that proprietary software is OK. But this just helps the enemy
4) Avoid fragmentation: If official channels are a weird mix of free and non-free channel, that pointlessly fragments the community. I'm not saying that this hasn't already happened, but giving official status to this just makes it worse.

Also, when official status is stripped, I propose to spam Discord with links to our official (free) channels, if this isn't done already. :P Also, it should be made very clear by whoever manages it (if anyone) that Discord is unofficial.

User avatar
ywwv
Member
Posts: 299
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2021 11:51

Re: Discord is official now?!

by ywwv » Post

I agree. the discord server does not have a moderation system . it is like the aincient times of europe. there is a class of nobles with the power to silence and banish all they dislike. in the end anyone of value is seen as a threat to the clique ( or the target of a childish grudge) . this is why minetest is in the "dark ages" excepted by this forum that is a more serious project like the platonic academy.

but they can still redeem themselves . I should be readmitted to their dark kingdom so that I might elevate the MASSES with my discourses. I should also be given special priveldges that I can wear as a suit of armor against the janitors ( who have obviously been promoted on account of seniority or personal connections than any kind of merit) who's whims are beneath my attention. and I will graciously forgive the operators of the discord in return

User avatar
celeron55
Administrator
Posts: 532
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2011 10:10
GitHub: celeron55
IRC: celeron55

Re: Discord is official now?!

by celeron55 » Post

Was this not explained anywhere properly?

The short story is, I watched the discord community grow on its own at a rather ridiculous pace (with no official status and no official mentions anywhere) while the IRC community was slowly getting smaller, I had to set a point where discord would be made official and bridged to IRC to avoid a long term split community. Splitting the community does not help with MT's goals.

This is a war between libre software purists and people who have sold their souls to the proprietary world, and the war is fought on projects like Minetest. Both sides tend to want to steer projects so much onto their side as to make them completely unapproachable to the other side. Going to the middle makes both sides ask "why did you go to their side?".

I wouldn't mind somebody occasionally reminding the Discord crowd they're using a proprietary platform and giving away all of their data to questionable investors for free, and some are even paying for the "privilege". Almost by definition all that data will be used for questionable purposes sometime in the future, if not already. The data will be sold to the highest bidder until the end of time.

User avatar
runs
Member
Posts: 3225
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2018 08:32

Re: Discord is official now?!

by runs » Post

celeron55 wrote:
Fri Nov 26, 2021 12:28
Was this not explained anywhere properly?

The short story is, I watched the discord community grow on its own at a rather ridiculous pace (with no official status and no official mentions anywhere) while the IRC community was slowly getting smaller, I had to set a point where discord would be made official and bridged to IRC to avoid a long term split community. Splitting the community does not help with MT's goals.

This is a war between libre software purists and people who have sold their souls to the proprietary world, and the war is fought on projects like Minetest. Both sides tend to want to steer projects so much onto their side as to make them completely unapproachable to the other side. Going to the middle makes both sides ask "why did you go to their side?".

I wouldn't mind somebody occasionally reminding the Discord crowd they're using a proprietary platform and giving away all of their data to questionable investors for free, and some are even paying for the "privilege". Almost by definition all that data will be used for questionable purposes sometime in the future, if not already. The data will be sold to the highest bidder until the end of time.
But Discord should be leadered by you or rubenwardy. Normal people I mean.

User avatar
runs
Member
Posts: 3225
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2018 08:32

Re: Discord is official now?!

by runs » Post

The future is REVOLT.

https://revolt.chat/

It is a OS copy of Discord, recent, new. Powerfull and visually identical.

New (this year). Made by young programming students.

Not federated, server oriented.

"Join Public Beta" to get a key. Then "Open web app" and try it.

- Slow performance (maybe the server used?)

Obviously people go for the popular and comfortable. Discord, where I have hundreds of friends and Twitch people use it, and I've been there for years.
But I don't want to follow the herd, I'm free and independent. I can't stand mafias.

User avatar
rubenwardy
Moderator
Posts: 6969
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 18:11
GitHub: rubenwardy
IRC: rubenwardy
In-game: rubenwardy
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom
Contact:

Re: Discord is official now?!

by rubenwardy » Post

Wuzzy wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 19:18
Also, when official status is stripped, I propose to spam Discord with links to our official (free) channels, if this isn't done already. :P Also, it should be made very clear by whoever manages it (if anyone) that Discord is unofficial.
This is incredibly toxic and is likely to lead to bans. If you want people to switch to a different platform, you need to entice them and not bully them into switching
Renewed Tab (my browser add-on) | Donate | Mods | Minetest Modding Book

Hello profile reader

User avatar
ywwv
Member
Posts: 299
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2021 11:51

Re: Discord is official now?!

by ywwv » Post

runs wrote:
Fri Nov 26, 2021 13:10
celeron55 wrote:
Fri Nov 26, 2021 12:28
Was this not explained anywhere properly?

The short story is, I watched the discord community grow on its own at a rather ridiculous pace (with no official status and no official mentions anywhere) while the IRC community was slowly getting smaller, I had to set a point where discord would be made official and bridged to IRC to avoid a long term split community. Splitting the community does not help with MT's goals.

This is a war between libre software purists and people who have sold their souls to the proprietary world, and the war is fought on projects like Minetest. Both sides tend to want to steer projects so much onto their side as to make them completely unapproachable to the other side. Going to the middle makes both sides ask "why did you go to their side?".

I wouldn't mind somebody occasionally reminding the Discord crowd they're using a proprietary platform and giving away all of their data to questionable investors for free, and some are even paying for the "privilege". Almost by definition all that data will be used for questionable purposes sometime in the future, if not already. The data will be sold to the highest bidder until the end of time.
But Discord should be leadered by you or rubenwardy. Normal people I mean.
I agree. it should be a city on a hill. t his is a "backseat" and disengaged approach

Grubler
Member
Posts: 98
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2019 03:01
In-game: Grubler

Re: Discord is official now?!

by Grubler » Post

Is there a discord I could join for this that I am not banned from?

Mineminer
Member
Posts: 325
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2018 04:05

Re: Discord is official now?!

by Mineminer » Post

Grubler wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 02:17
Is there a discord I could join for this that I am not banned from?
Most discords I seen are server or game based. I do not seen any "runner ups" or alternate discords.

Grubler
Member
Posts: 98
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2019 03:01
In-game: Grubler

Re: Discord is official now?!

by Grubler » Post

Or some form of alternate chat thing since people here may not like it.

User avatar
ywwv
Member
Posts: 299
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2021 11:51

Re: Discord is official now?!

by ywwv » Post

I agree that another discord server should be made. maybe I will create it . it will immediately reach a higher popularity and . activity level than any other minetest discord . and so it will be the official discord server as everyone will be using it . under my guiding VISION that the other one surely lacks. at this point I will force everyone to use an open source alternative and they will follow me

Jordach
Member
Posts: 4534
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 17:58
GitHub: Jordach
IRC: Jordach
In-game: Jordach
Location: Blender Scene

Re: Discord is official now?!

by Jordach » Post

Wuzzy wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 19:18
It has come to my attention that the Minetest Discord server has become official. I must have completely missed this development, but I am extremely disappointed!

Are we not worried that Minetest becomes more and more dependent on evil propiretary garbage software companies?

What's the point of Minetest as a free software game if at the end of day, it's nothing more than an advertisement platform for evil companies? It's bad enough that evil Android forks suck away players and $$$ from us. But this is worse. If free software doesn't mean that much to you anymore, we all might all just go straight for Minecraft instead … Absolutely laughable.

When will you finally take a bold stance against proprietary software for once?

I propose to remove the official status again. This means, none of the proprietary chat apps are officially endorsed or managed. To be clear: If players on their decide to go use any proprietary software, that's their problem, not mine. I am NOT dictating what you use. But I am saying that it's bad to bad encourage the use of Discord.

Reasons:
1) Ideological: Minetest is and always was a free software project. If we pointlessly depend on non-free software, that weakens us
2) Practical: Communication is key to any free software project. But if official channels are controlled by proprietary software, people bec. Our goal should be to get people used to free software. We DO have plenty of chat options available that are free. But if nobody uses them, they're worthless. We have to start somewhere
3) Habit: Our longterm goal should be to get people used to free software, rather than proprietary software. If we declare any proprietary service to be official, that sends a clear message that proprietary software is OK. But this just helps the enemy
4) Avoid fragmentation: If official channels are a weird mix of free and non-free channel, that pointlessly fragments the community. I'm not saying that this hasn't already happened, but giving official status to this just makes it worse.

Also, when official status is stripped, I propose to spam Discord with links to our official (free) channels, if this isn't done already. :P Also, it should be made very clear by whoever manages it (if anyone) that Discord is unofficial.
Jesus fucking wet, can you cry any harder that people are using what they want to use rather than what you want people to use. It's not up to your complaining ass to solve project related social media out. That falls to c55 and those within the Minetest organisation on GitHub. This is why software extremists like you give open open source a bad reputation.
ywwv wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:53
I agree that another discord server should be made. maybe I will create it . it will immediately reach a higher popularity and . activity level than any other minetest discord . and so it will be the official discord server as everyone will be using it . under my guiding VISION that the other one surely lacks. at this point I will force everyone to use an open source alternative and they will follow me
You got banned for being a troll. Quit crying.

User avatar
ywwv
Member
Posts: 299
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2021 11:51

Re: Discord is official now?!

by ywwv » Post

I got banned because childish users (like you) are given moderation powers. This embarrassing outburst only furthers my point. Look at the way their ambassador represents his insular community; this is possibly a "readers digest" of the seething and teeth-grinding peanut gallery in their chatroom who are reduced to commenting on forum screenshots (where all of the discussion of intellectual depth is produced) - which motivated this unhinged entry into our domain .

User avatar
Hugues Ross
Developer
Posts: 72
Joined: Mon May 06, 2019 22:52
GitHub: Df458
Location: Kitchens, Pantries, etc.
Contact:

Re: Discord is official now?!

by Hugues Ross » Post

Or some form of alternate chat thing since people here may not like it.
There's Matrix and several IRC channels, you can always use those if you prefer.

And to everyone else--if you really want Minetest chatting to happen elsewhere, make your own alternatives or support the existing ones. The majority of people, even in open-source communities are not 100% FOSS activists. If they use a proprietary chat platform, it's probably because that platform meets their needs better than the free one does.

Case in point: Two years ago I tried to switch from Discord to Matrix and immediately hit a wall--there were almost no active matrix communities covering most of the stuff I chat about on Discord. The few that did exist were mostly unmoderated and had some pretty vile shit in them, so I sure as hell wasn't going to stick around.

Finally, I think it's worth considering one more thing: Discord became official in part because of its popularity, not the other way around. Making it unofficial again, spamming it with advertising links, etc... none of that will actually change much. People join it because that's the community they want to be in, not because it's an official venue. And that's true of most communities. You can't force community, you have to foster it.

User avatar
DELTA_FORCE
Member
Posts: 165
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2018 01:26
IRC: DELTA_FORCE
In-game: DELTA_FORCE
Location: ee

Re: Discord is official now?!

by DELTA_FORCE » Post

Jordach is 100% right, it is people like you who are the reason open source gets a bad rap. This thread has been incredibly toxic because you don't understand the beauty of personal choice. Think about survival of the fittest: If Discord is the best choice for most people, they would rather use it. It's easy to use, free, and they can stay away from the toxic OSS part of the community who take it to extremes.

You act as if since the Discord exists, it is impossible to make another chatting community. This is false. Use Matrix or something, but we already see how that has worked out for you. You unfortunately have such a bias and distaste for anything that *isn't* open source that you refuse and retaliate against anything that isn't. Stop your open source elitism and accept the fact that Discord is the best choice for getting the largest community, until other platforms show greater success.
check me out nowhere because i never do anything

User avatar
emperor_genshin
Member
Posts: 83
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 05:04
GitHub: GenshinMT
IRC: Genshin
In-game: Genshin
Location: [REDACTED]
Contact:

Re: Discord is official now?!

by emperor_genshin » Post

This has to be one of the most immature threads I have ever read on this forum.

OP, members have the option to choose whatever they want as a chat platform. You have no jurisdiction to tell us what we should/should not use.

No one is separating because platforms like discord exists, this is why we have a relay bridge to begin with in order to stay together as a community while using whatever platform we so desire. If members are using Discord over IRC or Matrix, let em. Platforms are chosen out of personal preference, regardless if is FOSS or not.

Minetest will always be FOSS anyways. chat platforms doesn't change that fact. We only use chat platforms for communication convenience.

As for those who were banned from the discord server, learn from your mistakes instead of behaving like self entitled children who got angry over a penalty that were given for their actions. If you were banned, why not work on your personality for good and try to ask a appeal on your ban. Also for your information Ywwv, there were recent changes on the discord staff team.

Discord isn't the only place where the MT community resides. We have IRC and Matrix. So why not go to these places in the meantime?

Most Minetest servers also have discord servers if you're interested to visit them.
Last edited by emperor_genshin on Sun Nov 28, 2021 20:57, edited 17 times in total.
I'm just a individual who likes to make impressive things. | Current Mod: Dungeon Crawl Maker https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6g6H2kLBpg

User avatar
LMD
Member
Posts: 1385
Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2017 08:16
GitHub: appgurueu
IRC: appguru[eu]
In-game: LMD
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Discord is official now?!

by LMD » Post

The free platforms you mention have failed to provide the same quality of service as Discord and hence have fallen behind. Until this changes, I don't see why the Discord should be "demoted" to unofficial status considering it already sees way more activity than the original "official" means of communication.
My stuff: Projects - Mods - Website

User avatar
ywwv
Member
Posts: 299
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2021 11:51

Re: Discord is official now?!

by ywwv » Post

emperor_genshin wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 18:20
As for those who were banned from the discord server, learn from your mistakes instead of behaving like self entitled children who got angry over a penalty that were given for their actions. Discord isn't the only place where the MT community resides. We have IRC and Matrix. So why not go to these places in the meantime?

Instead of acting like people who want to start problems. If you were banned, why not work on your personality for good and try to ask a appeal on your ban. Also for your information Ywwv, there were recent changes on the discord staff team.
Its so funny that you say this as if the thoughts of your friends with moderation powers have any meaning (beyond a profession of their grudges). Maybe you should read how they interact with people. Undoubtedly you did which is why you've had to demote many of them. If you really do believe that they were not good moderators, you should also repeal their moderation decisions.

How am I meant to appeal a ban? I don't have contact with anyone in that place.

User avatar
emperor_genshin
Member
Posts: 83
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 05:04
GitHub: GenshinMT
IRC: Genshin
In-game: Genshin
Location: [REDACTED]
Contact:

Re: Discord is official now?!

by emperor_genshin » Post

Undoubtedly you did which is why you've had to demote many of them...
I am not responsible in handling staff/member demotions nor mute/bans on the MT discord. I am also not part of the staff team either. Im just simply a user who is giving you advice while spilling facts.
How am I meant to appeal a ban? I don't have contact with anyone in that place.
You can try to appeal a ban by contacting GreenXenith, he is currently in charge of the Minetest Discord server.
Its so funny that you say this as if the thoughts of your friends with moderation powers have any meaning...
FYI, Im just a local member on that server, just like you and everyone else. Whatever the staff chooses to do is not my problem nor my concern, even if I may be friends with them or not.
Last edited by emperor_genshin on Mon Nov 29, 2021 01:26, edited 18 times in total.
I'm just a individual who likes to make impressive things. | Current Mod: Dungeon Crawl Maker https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6g6H2kLBpg

User avatar
ywwv
Member
Posts: 299
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2021 11:51

Re: Discord is official now?!

by ywwv » Post

my first post on the topic can be considered my "ban appeal". Undoubtedly it has been screenshotted and disseminated on the discord and lengthy commentaries and discussions on it are in progress; as are all my forum posts, which are heavily read by the "downstream" discord community, who hang onto every word of my posts. And you selfishly deprive them of my presence? You should see how excited they were to finally meet me when I joined; the general chatroom had to be muted simply to contain it- and that was after one of your friends muted me in a sad lapse of judgement.

User avatar
emperor_genshin
Member
Posts: 83
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 05:04
GitHub: GenshinMT
IRC: Genshin
In-game: Genshin
Location: [REDACTED]
Contact:

Re: Discord is official now?!

by emperor_genshin » Post

ywwv wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 21:02
my first post on the topic can be considered my "ban appeal". Undoubtedly it has been screenshotted and disseminated on the discord and lengthy commentaries and discussions on it are in progress; as are all my forum posts, which are heavily read by the "downstream" discord community, who hang onto every word of my posts. And you selfishly deprive them of my presence? You should see how excited they were to finally meet me when I joined; the general chatroom had to be muted simply to contain it- and that was after one of your friends muted me in a sad lapse of judgement.
You should hear yourself sometime.
I'm just a individual who likes to make impressive things. | Current Mod: Dungeon Crawl Maker https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6g6H2kLBpg

User avatar
runs
Member
Posts: 3225
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2018 08:32

Re: Discord is official now?!

by runs » Post

This story is starting to bore me a lot already.

User avatar
ywwv
Member
Posts: 299
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2021 11:51

Re: Discord is official now?!

by ywwv » Post

emperor_genshin wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 21:17
You should hear yourself sometime.
one of my favourite pastimes is to go into my profile and so I can only read my own posts. It is quite plesant. I will share with you here: search.php?author_id=28903&sr=posts

maybe you don't pay attention to everything that goes on there. but I have many dedicated readers. you should keep your eyes open.

Grubler
Member
Posts: 98
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2019 03:01
In-game: Grubler

Re: Discord is official now?!

by Grubler » Post

The way I would describe it is I was asking questions, because I didn't know how to script things, and I got banned, and I tried to talk to the guy in charge, but for some reason they insisted I was a troll of some sort, and uh, yeah. Blocked me, or whatever. So I am not sure what I would be able to do about that in particular, so I guess I will try something else. Thanks.

User avatar
benrob0329
Member
Posts: 1341
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 22:39
GitHub: Benrob0329
IRC: benrob0329
In-game: benrob03
Location: Michigan
Contact:

Re: Discord is official now?!

by benrob0329 » Post

DISCLAIMER: I am 1 of 3 admins in the Minetest Discord Guild, and the admin of the Minetest Matrix Community. The opinions (unless otherwise stated) are solely my own and do not reflect my fellow admins, Minetest staff, or other community members.

Wuzzy, I appreciate your dedication to free software. I think that the fact that you care enough to go out of your way to write your complaint says that you care, and although I disagree with you quite strongly on some points I do understand where you are coming from.

Simply put: yes, FOSS projects should only rely on FOSS platforms. Unfortunately that "should" is the keyword here. Network effect be damned, but it's the truth of why platforms like Discord are popular. Most FOSS platforms barely scrape together a technical or ideological community, and really don't know how to help foster that growth. I think you'd find a lot of the management in MTD agree with that sentiment, and would use a FOSS platform just the same if that's where people went.

But complaining about this, or punishing a community outlet for choosing to compromise on a form of freedom for networking and user experience is not a good solution. In fact, it's the worst solution I can think of. So maybe, instead of spending energy complaining about something you don't like, you should spend that energy helping out something you do like. I'm giving you an open invitation to come and join the Matrix community, we're a small one but it's growing and maturing with time. The more people who are engaging in it, the more active it will become, displacing some of the activity on proprietary platforms like Discord.

ywwv, in all honesty your reputation proceeded you from the forums, mainly for how irritating some people find you. You proved to be a nuisance, consistently spouting your delusions of grandeur and superiority while putting down others. We are not obliged to provide the community outlet to anyone in particular, and if someone proves to be for the worse of the community, we reserve the right to exclude them from our area of jurisdiction. To be even more frank with you: some of the things you have said or implied here are bordering on slander, and I'm somewhat surprised that it falls within acceptable behavior on the forums. If you could cut it out with the whole superiority complex you hold up, maybe a ban appeal would be worthwhile.

Grubler, despite our best efforts, you also continued to be a nuisance. You seem to lack self awareness much in the same way as ywwv, whether on purpose or not I'm unsure. Your appeals for help could have been fruitful, had you been willing to put any actual effort in to learning rather than repeating the same line of questioning over and over again without any willingness to carry yourself or take the advise of others. Even here, where you have the ability to ask for a second chance from one of the admins, you cannot be bothered to, instead stating that you have no ability to do so. Granted, we don't repeal moderation decisions without good reason, you would need to show a willingness to cooperate, rather than only accepting spoon-feeding as the correct way to answer your questions.

Runs, you're a very special case. You constantly play the victim while simultaneously doing things that nobody thinks is ok. I think you play yourself up, to be honest, because you like the attention. To be frank: you concern me with how much you target young children with your mods, while simultaneously sexualising your main character Samantha with how you talk about her, as well as proposing extremely..controversial ideas (like a Nazi mod). While I can never be certain if you really don't understand, or if the language/cultural barrier is the cause of all this, you don't seem to be in any hurry to rectify the issues presented to you from any number of sources or administration. As Warr might say, I'm willing to give second chances no matter how deep of a pit someone had dug for themselves, but you've gotta show that you're not still digging the pit deeper.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests