Aux1 and Inventory keybinds

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Aux1 and Inventory keybinds

by Blockhead » Post

I always rebind Aux1 to F and E to inventory. This should be the default. I will explain this below with detailed reasoning and answers to any objections I can currently think of.
  • You should not have to move your hands away from WASD+mouse in order to open the inventory.
  • There is nothing bound to F by default, and it is reasonably close to the WASD keys.
  • You are more likely to hit the pitch move key when reaching across the keyboard to aim for the I key than when simply moving your left hand off WASD onto the E key.
  • Since the Escape (Esc) menu cannot be overridden, many other games also have a menu bound to the inventory key. Its importance varies but I think it is often more important to access this menu than Aux1, obviously depending on the game.
  • "I for inventory" is a mnemonic specific to English and related languages. It's also poor design thinking, the kind of which brought us horrible keybindings from the 90s DOS game era like the control scheme of Elder Scrolls: Arena.
  • Aux1 is not as important as the inventory, it does not belong on as important of a key as E; even with sprinting mods F is just fine as a sprinting key, or at least equivalent to E. A better sprinting key would be shift or space anyway to make full use of the WASD easier.
  • "It's always been that way" is not a good argument - Minecraft used to have it on I, now they have it on E. Anyone who insist on the old keybindings can change it back.
  • C and V, for camera and minimap respectively, were moved from F-keys and that was an improvement. I think they were F7 and F8, but I can't remember - I don't have to try as hard to remember what keys operate those functions any more. The inventory keybinding should follow suit.
  • "But you might accidentally hit it" - but you might also accidentally hit Q to drop your items already, which could be a lot worse if lava destroys items or you are playing something like skyblock. Clumsy people should rebind both Q and E if they have to protect themselves from repeated mis-presses, and needn't be catered to in defaults.
  • "What about all the advice that tells people Aux1 is the E key?" - old advice is not a new problem. The change will appear in the changelogs, and the README will be changed. People are likely to start pushing random nearby keys to figure what to do anyway, and find it pretty quickly. After all, I'm always pushing hjk in creative mode to figure out which one of the movement options I'm activating. People on multiplayer servers can ask or check the Change Keys menu; people in singleplayer can also check the Change Keys menu. Forum posts can be edited, and the first post of mod, game and server threads very often are.
  • "But I is more likely to make your hands more ready to type by bringing them closer to the home row/F+J keys" - but many people don't perform a text search immediately after opening the inventory. Not all games even have a text search in their inventory, and often people are just crafting some simple recipes anyway.
  • "I rebind the inventory to a button on the side of my mouse anyway" - you are the exception rather than the rule, and I don't think your opinion should be weighted as heavily when considering keyboard design, since you're likely to rebind stuff anyway. Many people have never even used a mouse with more than 2 buttons and a scrollwheel - think of the numerous people, especially children who play on mobile, or with a trackpad on a laptop, or a very cheap mouse.
  • "We shouldn't do anything about the controls until some PR in the future which creates more options for controls like game-specific controls" (I think it has already been decided Minetest engine will not get a sprint key, even though we already have one for sneak, as it's not game-agnostic enough for something) - I disagree, such a change is not close to happening at all as far as I can tell. If we agree on this change, it can be implemented quickly and included in 5.7.
Alternative Keys
  • Tab for inventory - you would press it with either the pinky or the ring finger, whereas E would be pressed with the index or middle fingers. The pinky is much weaker than the middle or index fingers and the ring finger is much more movement. Valheim uses the Tab key, but crafting in that game is usually limited to crafting stations except in the early game, whereas 3x3 crafting is the default in Minetest and even in Mineclone 2x2 crafting is probably decently common. Tab makes sense for a button that isn't pressed very often, but in Minetest you can often be quickly opening chests, closing them, reopening inventory, close it again and so on.
  • Caps Lock for inventory - nobody likes toggling caps lock if they don't have to, and this is a game which can have a lot of chat.
  • LShift for Aux1 or Inventory - this is already bound to sneak, and we don't want to break that expectation both from established players or from players who come from other games like Minecraft.
  • LCtrl for Aux1 - is pressed with the pinky and wears you out even more than Shift.
  • LAlt for Aux1 - I press Left Alt by using my thumb usually, since it's less contortion of my hand and I can reasonably move with WASD while holding Alt with the thumb. What I can't reasonably do is jump while sprinting in this configuration, and that's a big problem. Also it might feel weird to sound a train horn by pressing a modifier key, but conceptually I think most use-cases of Aux1 are actually more as a modifier key than as an action key.
  • Z, C, V, Q - already bound to zoom, camera, minimap, drop item
  • X - too awkward as a modifier key directly below WASD, too non-standard and probably too far out of the way for the inventory.
  • R for inventory - already bound to infinite render distance. Somewhat non-standard but might be the most viable alternative to E, if we then rebind I (i) to infinite render distance.
  • G for inventory - may as well use E & F for inventory and Aux1, and not have the inventory too far out of the road.
  • G for Aux1 - either robs you of total WASD control, or uses the thumb, which stops you from jumping.
  • B for inventory - not bad from WASD as you can use your thumb which in my case naturally rests just below the B key in the middle of the spacebar. However, E or F are still better, and inevitably someone will complain because it'll break someone's workflow. I don't use B and N to select next/previous in the hotbar, but there's probably some small % of people who do that. Even moving next&previous to ,. would probably not appease them, since those are too far to reach with the thumb unlike B and N.
Last edited by Blockhead on Sun May 29, 2022 05:51, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Aux1 and Inventory keybinds

by Festus1965 » Post

I use E for inventory since ... 2-3 years also, no keyboard jump
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Re: Aux1 and Inventory keybinds

by Linuxdirk » Post

I use i for inventory because it makes sense 😊

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Re: Aux1 and Inventory keybinds

by ROllerozxa » Post

Blockhead wrote:
Fri May 27, 2022 11:48
"It's always been that way" is not a good argument - Minecraft used to have it on E, now they have it on I. Anyone who insist on the old keybindings can change it back.
Actually, the other way around. At first Minecraft had the I key as the inventory key, but then during Beta 1.4 it was changed to E. I feel this is actually an argument for changing the inventory keybind to E in Minetest too, they didn't change it in Minecraft for no reason after all.

Also:
Blockhead wrote:
Fri May 27, 2022 11:48
think of the numerous people, especially children who play on mobile, or with a trackpad on a laptop, or a very cheap mouse.
I can't tell if that was intentional or not (Think of the children!). Still doesn't make the point less valid though. :P

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Re: Aux1 and Inventory keybinds

by LMD » Post

It depends on how heavily used AUX1 is. In PvP servers such as CTF it is often used for sprinting. That means you tend to press & hold E way more often (and often in parallel with holding W) than you need to press I; usually you only open the inventory when you're in a safe location and need to get some gear in your hotbar.

Making binding the inventory to the convenient E key is a poor idea (for PvP servers in particular) because the inventory key is one of the few keys you never need to hold at the same time as other keys. It doesn't deserve the sweet spot next to WASD.

Another point to consider is that changing is an effort: Many guides currently read along the lines of "press E to sprint, I to open the inventory" assuming these default keybinds.
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Re: Aux1 and Inventory keybinds

by Blockhead » Post

Linuxdirk wrote:
Fri May 27, 2022 14:14
I use i for inventory because it makes sense 😊
I explained above why using it just because it's a mnemonic for Inventar makes less sense than just using an easier key to press.

ROllerozxa wrote:
Fri May 27, 2022 14:56
Actually, the other way around.
Woops, typo. Edited. Yes, they changed it to E not to I. Yes, this is an argument in favour of changing it in Minetest too, I just had it backwards.
ROllerozxa wrote:
Fri May 27, 2022 14:56
Also:
Blockhead wrote:
Fri May 27, 2022 11:48
think of the numerous people, especially children who play on mobile, or with a trackpad on a laptop, or a very cheap mouse.
I can't tell if that was intentional or not (Think of the children!). Still doesn't make the point less valid though. :P
It should be taken as less of a moral 'think of the children' and more of a 'think about when you were a child with no budget for peripherals, even if you can afford them now as an adult'.
LMD wrote:
Fri May 27, 2022 15:37
It depends on how heavily used AUX1 is. In PvP servers such as CTF it is often used for sprinting. That means you tend to press & hold E way more often (and often in parallel with holding W) than you need to press I; usually you only open the inventory when you're in a safe location and need to get some gear in your hotbar.

Making binding the inventory to the convenient E key is a poor idea (for PvP servers in particular) because the inventory key is one of the few keys you never need to hold at the same time as other keys. It doesn't deserve the sweet spot next to WASD.
E and F are not significantly different in difficulty to push. It might be a marginally easier to press E than F, but PvPers should all strongly consider rebinding keys anyway: Shift is a better sprint key, then rebind sneak to Ctrl. Then you can operate all of the WASD with your ring, middle and index fingers while holding shift with the pinky. Or, since that might be a bit tiring, just switch sprint and inventory so sprint is still on E for that (very marginal) advantage and the inventory is on F. Like I also said above, I is way too far away, and crafting is often time-sensitive in a PvP environment, so you definitely don't want it on the I key.
LMD wrote:
Fri May 27, 2022 15:37
Another point to consider is that changing is an effort: Many guides currently read along the lines of "press E to sprint, I to open the inventory" assuming these default keybinds.
This is just resistance to change. Let me copy and paste what I said above "'What about all the advice that tells people Aux1 is the E key?' - old advice is not a new problem. The change will appear in the changelogs, and the README will be changed. People are likely to start pushing random nearby keys to figure what to do anyway, and find it pretty quickly. After all, I'm always pushing hjk in creative mode to figure out which one of the movement options I'm activating. People on multiplayer servers can ask or check the Change Keys menu; people in singleplayer can also check the Change Keys menu. Forum posts can be edited, and the first post of mod, game and server threads very often are." It's not hard to update your guides.
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Re: Aux1 and Inventory keybinds

by Astrobe » Post

You filthy right-handed player, don't you dare to complain about default bindings. I have to change them in every hucking game. Worse, I'd prefer to use the keypad, but some games don't handle those keys properly.

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Re: Aux1 and Inventory keybinds

by Blockhead » Post

Astrobe wrote:
Sat May 28, 2022 08:36
You filthy right-handed player, don't you dare to complain about default bindings. I have to change them in every hucking game. Worse, I'd prefer to use the keypad, but some games don't handle those keys properly.
Do you use ijkl, uhjk or something and the mouse on the left? Interesting, I know some people do this; others learn how to use the mouse with their right hand. Do you also swap the mouse buttons in the operating system? Sadly in Minetest binding the numpad to 8462 for movement will also bind the arrow keys, at least under Linux/X11. The bad keyboard handling is inherited from Irrlicht I believe. I'm also not a fan of those keyboards that omit the numpad.

A lot of games should really be more accessible including: proper international keyboard layout support e.g. QWERTZ, AZERTY, non-latin scripts; left-handed controls, one-handed controls, colourblind-friendly modes (default full colour vision mode + 3 modes for r/g/b blind-deficient), differentiation by shape and texture as well as colour, large fonts & UI scale, closed captions & visual cues.
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Re: Aux1 and Inventory keybinds

by pampogokiraly » Post

I don't like setting aux1 to anything that doesn't use my pinky or my thumb. This is mainly due to aux1 being used as sprint in most games/servers, and I want to be able to control myself fully while sprinting.

For the inventory I tried out many settings and I still don't know what to use. I used C, LAlt, Tab, and many others.
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Re: Aux1 and Inventory keybinds

by Astrobe » Post

Blockhead wrote:
Sat May 28, 2022 08:59
Do you use ijkl, uhjk or something and the mouse on the left? Interesting, I know some people do this; others learn how to use the mouse with their right hand. Do you also swap the mouse buttons in the operating system? Sadly in Minetest binding the numpad to 8462 for movement will also bind the arrow keys, at least under Linux/X11. The bad keyboard handling is inherited from Irrlicht I believe. I'm also not a fan of those keyboards that omit the numpad.
Mouse on the left for gaming with button reversed at home, standard right-hand mouse at work (because coworkers). Surprisingly I have no problem with that; at work, I need a lot less accuracy than in games, so I can't really "switch" permanently.

At home I usually use arrow keys for gaming when the keypad is not possible. That's what I use in minetest plus the nearby reachable keys (right shift/control, del.end.pgDown, event keypad 0,1 and dot). I have long fingers at least.

I never considered HJKL despite the fact I am a regular Vi user (and played some Nethack too). The problem is that I also happen to use AZERTY, and the numbers raw gives funny things without shifting (basically accentuated later and our funny little ç) that some games don't like either.

One thing that could help are the extra key bindings for slots available in minetest.conf (they did it for all 32 slot! That's crazy, knowing a little how boring it is to program - I would have called it a day at 8). At some point I used it to rebind "slot 1" and "slot 4"; in combination with previous/next item keys (or scrollwheel), it gives access to 6 slots in 1 or 2 keystrokes. I put the sword in slot and food/heal in slot 4 because I fight mobs often.

I see quite often accessibility options for colorblind people in games. People who have this issue in Minetest can try the Reshade program, which has IIRC a couple of plugins for this.

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Re: Aux1 and Inventory keybinds

by Blockhead » Post

pampogokiraly wrote:
Sat May 28, 2022 16:45
I don't like setting aux1 to anything that doesn't use my pinky or my thumb. This is mainly due to aux1 being used as sprint in most games/servers, and I want to be able to control myself fully while sprinting.

For the inventory I tried out many settings and I still don't know what to use. I used C, LAlt, Tab, and many others.
Like I said in response to LMD, I think pinky is too tiring if you're going to be playing for a while. Also mouse control is way more fine-grained than left-right with the movement keys, although thinking about it again, strafing can also be important in PvP or maybe PvE scenarios, but really not important if you're just on a building/survival server.

I'm going to edit OP to evaluate more alternatives but nobody has convinced me that E isn't the best choice for inventory so far.
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Re: Aux1 and Inventory keybinds

by v-rob » Post

Why not Q? Certainly, dropping items is much less important than Aux1, which is almost always used for more important things. It's also in prime position right next to WASD without removing E from its prime position either. To address your existing reason "Z, C, V, Q - already bound to zoom, camera, minimap, drop item": This seems like a double standard since you're advocating E, which is already bound to Aux1.
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Re: Aux1 and Inventory keybinds

by Eris » Post

+1 for Inventory key: F and Aux1 key: E.
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Re: Aux1 and Inventory keybinds

by TestificateMods » Post

Commenting here because this thread has just been mentioned elsewhere.

I think it's a good idea to consider both convenience as well as common patterns for this.

Let's have a look at common keybindings in other games:
Pause menu (currently ESC): Primarily Esc, rarely Tab
Inventory (currently I): E, I, Tab or Esc.
Sneaking (currently LShift): LShift, LAlt, LCtrl
Interact (currently E): E, F
Sprint (currently J for Fast Mode or E for most sprint mods): LCtrl, LShift, double press W
Map view (currently V): M, V, Tab
Camera toggle (currently C): C, F, rarely some function key
Drop items (currently Q): I can only think of Minecraft here which also uses Q

I think we should use whichever keybind matches the most common pattern as that's what new players would come to expect. If the same key would be used twice, the more commonly used action should win the conflict. I consider the inventory to be more important than aux1 because pretty much every subgame uses it. The same cannot be said for the auxiliary key.

Thus, I agree with the proposed changes to put the inventory on E and the aux1 key on F.
I also propose changing the Fast Mode toggle to LCtrl as it mostly resembles other games' sprint key. As such, I consider LCtrl to be more intuitive than J.

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Re: Aux1 and Inventory keybinds

by Gorm » Post

Hello!
But E for inventory is much better then I.
I is far away from the default movement keys and should not be default.

I'm a left handed person. So for me its much more difficult. As the to me more natural solution using the numberkeypad or the arrow keys isnt really possible or enough. Because for inventory and other keybindings there are no good reachable keys available/nearby. My inventory key would be "del" for example. And the aux1 would be "end".
Whatever is used for default its difficult to use. So my prefered solution would be a fully customisable keybinding. At the moment its all quirky.

Yours Gorm

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Re: Aux1 and Inventory keybinds

by Tuxilio » Post

+1 for Inventory key: E and Aux1 key: F

I use F for Aux1 in CTF and I think it's good.
New players of MC have it easier with E as inventory and F for Aux1. The first thing I show them is how to change the keys.

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Re: Aux1 and Inventory keybinds

by Blockhead » Post

Two releases have come out since OP was made: 5.7 and 5.8. The former removed the default keybinding for infinite render distance, or as it's now referred to "range select". R is a decently viable inventory key but it does break with convention. In terms of rankings I would now say it's:
  1. E for inventory, F for Aux1
  2. E for inventory, R for Aux1
  3. E for Aux1, R for inventory
Since I think it's probably better not to have them on the same row to reduce mis-presses.
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Re: Aux1 and Inventory keybinds

by Nininik » Post

i just take my hand off the mouse and press inventory, i ususally confuse aux1 and the q(drop key) aND sometimes accidenatlly drop testools on my server.

oops.
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