Main Menu Contest Proposal

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runs
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Main Menu Contest Proposal

by runs » Post

I propose to make a Design Contest. And the one that wins is more or less implemented.

If not:

- No one will ever agree 100%.
- It has been 5 years of discussion without any decision, no matter how good or absurd.
- In graphic design there are no concrete tastes.
- Minetest does not have a style guide. It is essential to create one (square or round, flat or shades...)

https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6733#
Last edited by runs on Thu Dec 08, 2022 16:08, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Main Menu Contest Proposal

by runs » Post

And to say that I would like to participate as a graphic designer.

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Re: Main Menu Contest Proposal

by runs » Post

Best probably timing for the contest: 3-6 months. on Spring or summer time.
No money

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Re: Main Menu Contest Proposal

by Blockhead » Post

runs wrote:
Thu Dec 08, 2022 16:06
Best probably timing for the contest: 3-6 months. on Spring or summer time.
No money
It's summer time right now

On topic: yes, I agree with the idea of a contest to redesign the main menu, rather than PRs and issue threads that never seem to succeed. I know Rubenwardy and Zughy have worked on redesigning the settings menu, and I think their direction is a good one, but the main menu is bigger than just the settings.

I actually really don't mind the current main menu, but I'm a programmer with a heavy desktop-usage bias, where the main menu just works really quickly for me. I think Minetest's Sans Serif style rather than pixel font works fine and that pixel fonts are mostly a meme that spreads to be imitative of Minecraft. But I do think we can still make a better main menu that is even better to navigate, like by making it easier to select games rather than the click click click you have to do if you want to select one of two dozen games, and a better design for registering and logging into servers.

I dislike the idea of hiding more stuff behind more clicks and more mouse movement for the sake of minimalism. A designer should justify removing and hiding stuff, or better yet use better technology. Like maybe instead of a static list of commonly used settings followed by drilling down to the less common ones, the ones that are frequently toggled by the player can be displayed according to the frecency score. Those are the kinds of ideas I want to see in a main menu redesign; a good aesthetic is a secondary concern to me, even if I know it can attract more people. I'm sure we can easily make pretty main menus, but the real challenge is to make a menu that is a joy to use. I encourage designers to think critically about what the menu's functions and purposes are and how an innovative new design can speed those up and make them more intuitive. Perhaps I will participate, but I wouldn't expect to win any beauty competitions :)
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Re: Main Menu Contest Proposal

by runs » Post

Blockhead wrote:
Thu Dec 08, 2022 18:03
runs wrote:
Thu Dec 08, 2022 16:06
Best probably timing for the contest: 3-6 months. on Spring or summer time.
No money
It's summer time right now

On topic: yes, I agree with the idea of a contest to redesign the main menu, rather than PRs and issue threads that never seem to succeed. I know Rubenwardy and Zughy have worked on redesigning the settings menu, and I think their direction is a good one, but the main menu is bigger than just the settings.

I actually really don't mind the current main menu, but I'm a programmer with a heavy desktop-usage bias, where the main menu just works really quickly for me. I think Minetest's Sans Serif style rather than pixel font works fine and that pixel fonts are mostly a meme that spreads to be imitative of Minecraft. But I do think we can still make a better main menu that is even better to navigate, like by making it easier to select games rather than the click click click you have to do if you want to select one of two dozen games, and a better design for registering and logging into servers.

I dislike the idea of hiding more stuff behind more clicks and more mouse movement for the sake of minimalism. A designer should justify removing and hiding stuff, or better yet use better technology. Like maybe instead of a static list of commonly used settings followed by drilling down to the less common ones, the ones that are frequently toggled by the player can be displayed according to the frecency score. Those are the kinds of ideas I want to see in a main menu redesign; a good aesthetic is a secondary concern to me, even if I know it can attract more people. I'm sure we can easily make pretty main menus, but the real challenge is to make a menu that is a joy to use. I encourage designers to think critically about what the menu's functions and purposes are and how an innovative new design can speed those up and make them more intuitive. Perhaps I will participate, but I wouldn't expect to win any beauty competitions :)
Actual menu design is redundant and a complete mess. For example:

- The tab system is good for corporate apps, not games.
- Anyway the Minetest's Tab System is horrendous. A lot of unconnected and unintuitive information mixed together.
- The player name is double in two tabs.
- Games are hidden by default. An almost invisible plus button does not the trick really.
- Naming is a mess: Start Game and Join Game is also the same for me. Why no Play Game and Join Server? The 'Content' word is very generic, better Modding.
- Accesing to the mods is obscure and difficult.
- The game screenshot is cool but hidden by the options. Why not a full render of the image of the last game played the first time Minetest is opened, with a minimal set of options at the side like many other games do? I know it: it was a pastiche on a old and inneficient design.
etc.
etc.
etc.
etc.

The current design is a mending since the alpha version, something easy and messy for celeron to develop the game in its primitive state. And it stayed like that.
Last edited by runs on Thu Dec 08, 2022 19:55, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Main Menu Contest Proposal

by runs » Post

Moreover, the current Minetets design would come last if it were to be put in a virtual design competition. People would laugh at it, because of its 90's linux application look.

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Re: Main Menu Contest Proposal

by runs » Post

Blockhead wrote:
Thu Dec 08, 2022 18:03
runs wrote:
Thu Dec 08, 2022 16:06
Best probably timing for the contest: 3-6 months. on Spring or summer time.
No money
It's summer time right now
Oh and while you're at it, say hello to the kangaroos and giant killer spiders for me. :-D

PD: Bias and stereotypes are inevitable.

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Re: Main Menu Contest Proposal

by Tim790 » Post

Shouldn't they just add a way to make your own custom menus and download them from content db.
Yeet.

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Re: Main Menu Contest Proposal

by runs » Post

Tim790 wrote:
Thu Dec 08, 2022 20:46
Shouldn't they just add a way to make your own custom menus and download them from content db.
Ideal, but not realistic. If a general menu is not implemented, because no one will agree in 5 years, let alone to implement what you propose.

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Re: Main Menu Contest Proposal

by Blockhead » Post

runs wrote:
Thu Dec 08, 2022 19:39
Actual menu design is redundant and a complete mess. For example:

...

The current design is a mending since the alpha version, something easy and messy for celeron to develop the game in its primitive state. And it stayed like that.
I agree it's just an evolved design that needs massive rework. Although I disagree about tabs, those aren't just "corporate", they're good for easy switching, like switching between installing content and playing singleplayer. It's good that we disagree though, it makes it a competition :)
Tim790 wrote:
Thu Dec 08, 2022 20:46
Shouldn't they just add a way to make your own custom menus and download them from content db.
The main menu code isn't sandboxed like the main game, so that would be a lot of work for ContentDB reviewers to make sure the main menu code can't do naughty things. Also, I'm not sure how well it would work to install a new main menu from the main menu, while the main menu code is still running. You would have to make sure the new main menu can start on the next formspec button press, or force it to delay until Minetest restarts.

Still, it would be good to make it as easy as possible to install different versions, and if it's on ContentDB it's supposed to be safe, so I won't rule the idea out. It would probably take months or years to make a new interface and get it accepted into Minetest, but if people had a good one they could easily start using that would get the ball rolling.
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