Post Deleted.

User avatar
BorisGrishenko
Member
 
Posts: 206
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2013 06:11
Location: Battlehorn Castle, Cyrodiil

Post Deleted.

by BorisGrishenko » Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:31

Post is now closed due to social and forum reasons.
Last edited by BorisGrishenko on Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:16, edited 1 time in total.
Hi, I'm this guy at his home somewhere in a very hot place.
Currently working on houses based in real and virtual worlds.
Judge Minister Claude Frollo should be a Disney Prince.
 

User avatar
VanessaE
Moderator
 
Posts: 4415
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 12:38
Location: Waynesville, NC
GitHub: VanessaE
IRC: VanessaE
In-game: VanessaE

by VanessaE » Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:41

With Linux vs. Windows, the primary issue is trust. You can trust Linux not to do things like phone home or otherwise violate your privacy, or enforce stupid DRM "solutions" onto your system, or get viruses. Windows, not so much because it has a history of these things.

With Minetest vs. Minecraft: Infiniminer came first, then came Minecraft. So if the latter didn't exist, Minetest still might have been written. When if Infiniminer hadn't existed? Who knows, but to say MT wouldn't have been thought of is not accurate.

Regarding weapons, well, don't say that to a professional knife thrower. :-)
You might like some of my stuff: Plantlife ~ More Trees ~ Home Decor ~ Pipeworks ~ HDX Textures (64-512px)
 

User avatar
Traxie21
Member
 
Posts: 753
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:48
Location: McKinney, Texas U.S.A.

by Traxie21 » Mon Mar 18, 2013 13:12

I know that debating is generally useless and can have negative effects, but I just like doing it and have a hard time avoiding it.

I was captain of my debate team in HS for a while.
 

User avatar
Mito551
Member
 
Posts: 1271
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 15:03

by Mito551 » Mon Mar 18, 2013 13:34

Now, the word debate is not accurate enough to begin with. Argument or "holywar" would suit better.
 

User avatar
Casimir
Member
 
Posts: 1161
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 16:59
GitHub: CasimirKaPazi

by Casimir » Mon Mar 18, 2013 15:21

Linux is opensouce, so I prefer it no matter if it is better or not.
Minetest is opensouce, so I prefer it no matter if it is better or not.
With a knife you can cook, so I prefer it.
 

User avatar
10twenty4
Member
 
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 20:54

by 10twenty4 » Mon Mar 18, 2013 15:24

Windows doesn't respect my freedoms. If I were to use it, I wouldn't be able to look at the framed picture of Richard Stallman hanging in my room ever again. I'd feel his free (as in freedom) general license stare on me every time I turn on my computer to use my proprietary software.

As to Minecraft, I'd argue that Minecraft is in fact a bad game, especially survival mode. It has poor ai, little to no sense of progression, no challenge or reward for exploration, a really crappy "bossfight", a terrible dev team, and a godawful community.

As for "debate" or internet arguments, I prefer those to hugboxes. Sometimes you just have to be negative or criticizing to get your point across.
 

User avatar
0gb.us
Member
 
Posts: 841
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 01:55
Location: 0gb.us:30000

by 0gb.us » Mon Mar 18, 2013 15:34

VanessaE wrote:With Linux vs. Windows, the primary issue is trust. You can trust Linux not to do things like phone home or otherwise violate your privacy, or enforce stupid DRM "solutions" onto your system, or get viruses. Windows, not so much because it has a history of these things.


Not only that, but Windows has no security whatsoever. It just LETS malware have its way with the system. Even good anti-malware (which takes a lot of overhead to run) doesn't block a lot of it.

Windows also has overly high system requirements for no good reason. Other operating systems function better with less resources.

I'm not saying Linux is the solution. Personally, I enjoy Ubuntu (Linux), but most non-Windows operating systems are fine. BSD, OS X, Linux, hey, even DOS. Pick you poison. But with Windows, you are leaving your computer exposed and limiting its capabilities. There's no good reason for that.

EDIT: In other words, choosing Windows is not just a small mistake. Its a large mistake, worth debating.
Last edited by 0gb.us on Mon Mar 18, 2013 15:36, edited 1 time in total.
 

User avatar
jojoa1997
Member
 
Posts: 2890
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 05:11
Location: Earth

by jojoa1997 » Mon Mar 18, 2013 15:36

0gb.us wrote:
VanessaE wrote:With Linux vs. Windows, the primary issue is trust. You can trust Linux not to do things like phone home or otherwise violate your privacy, or enforce stupid DRM "solutions" onto your system, or get viruses. Windows, not so much because it has a history of these things.


Not only that, but Windows has no security whatsoever. It just LETS malware have its way with the system. Even good anti-malware (which takes a lot of overhead to run) doesn't block a lot of it.

Windows also has overly high system requirements for no good reason. Other operating systems function better with less resources.

I'm not saying Linux is the solution. Personally, I enjoy Ubuntu (Linux), but most non-Windows operating systems are fine. BSD, OS X, Linux, hey, even DOS. Pick you poison. But with Windows, you are leaving your computer exposed and limiting its capabilities. There's no good reason for that.
i think one possitive thing about windows reading AI and ai the same is you can accidentally click on something that you thought was another.
Coding;
1X coding
3X debugging
12X tweaking to be just right
 

User avatar
jojoa1997
Member
 
Posts: 2890
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 05:11
Location: Earth

by jojoa1997 » Mon Mar 18, 2013 15:47

10twenty4 wrote:Windows doesn't respect my freedoms. If I were to use it, I wouldn't be able to look at the framed picture of Richard Stallman hanging in my room ever again. I'd feel his free (as in freedom) general license stare on me every time I turn on my computer to use my proprietary software.

As to Minecraft, I'd argue that Minecraft is in fact a bad game, especially survival mode. It has poor ai, little to no sense of progression, no challenge or reward for exploration, a really crappy "bossfight", a terrible dev team, and a godawful community.

As for "debate" or internet arguments, I prefer those to hugboxes. Sometimes you just have to be negative or criticizing to get your point across.
sorry about what i said i thought minecraft said minetest
Coding;
1X coding
3X debugging
12X tweaking to be just right
 

User avatar
Traxie21
Member
 
Posts: 753
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:48
Location: McKinney, Texas U.S.A.

by Traxie21 » Mon Mar 18, 2013 15:48

Congradulations.
We are now debating on whether or not to debate.
 

User avatar
kaeza
Moderator
 
Posts: 2162
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2012 05:00
Location: Montevideo, Uruguay
GitHub: kaeza
IRC: kaeza diemartin blaaaaargh
In-game: kaeza

by kaeza » Mon Mar 18, 2013 15:59

My opinions:
Linux vs Windows:
I have both installed and use both of them. Since PCs (almost always) come with Windows installed, I won't remove it. I just installed Linux, and left a small (20 GB) partition for use by Win. I only use it for gaming mostly because of poor performance under virtualization (running it as host is faster than as guest). Just don't use it for anything serious.
As a side note, I don't really care about whether a program/OS/whatever is open source. As long as I can run it without having to pay large sums of money I'm happy with it.

MT vs MC:
I can't say MC is a good game or a bad game since I haven't played it at all, but from what I have seen, it's community is indeed disappointing.
Last edited by kaeza on Mon Mar 18, 2013 16:00, edited 1 time in total.
Your signature is not the place for a blog post. Please keep it as concise as possible. Thank you!

Check out my stuff! | Donations greatly appreciated! PayPal
 

User avatar
10twenty4
Member
 
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 20:54

by 10twenty4 » Mon Mar 18, 2013 16:44

Security and malware shouldn't be an issue, as long as you have Common Sense 2013 installed. it's cross-platform and completely free, so I highly recommend it.
 

User avatar
Traxie21
Member
 
Posts: 753
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:48
Location: McKinney, Texas U.S.A.

by Traxie21 » Mon Mar 18, 2013 17:02

Common Sense 2013 Comes in several editions, which should I use? It would appear the Professional Extreme Consumers Gold Edition is incompatable with my system. I think I'll try using CommonSense 2013 LiteBasic Home Edition.
 

User avatar
nextmissinglink
Member
 
Posts: 145
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2013 16:43
Location: Uranus

by nextmissinglink » Mon Mar 18, 2013 17:45

dont give A crap realy but I also sometimes prefer open source
IF in doubt hit it with a hammer
This is a signature virus. Add me to your signature so that I can multiply id10t ERROR
do not abuse me i am 11 and i like hitting things with a hammer that may include you
this is ment to be secret http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=86467#p86467
 

prestidigitator
Member
 
Posts: 640
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2013 23:54

by prestidigitator » Mon Mar 18, 2013 20:52

There are many reasons Windows is vastly inferior. People are certainly still free to use it, but they had better not ask me for support with networking problems or whatever.

The Minecraft debate does get a little old, but the reason I'D like to see Minetest not try to emulate Minecraft is that I'd like it to grow into something better, that has great features Minecraft doesn't. If all people have their eyes on is re-implementing Minecraft features, all we'll do is play a continual game of catch-up. Other than that, I personally don't care how similar or dissimilar they are. Good ideas are good ideas. Bad ideas (indestructible obsidian? diamond tools, weapons, and armor? really?) are bad ideas.

I like debating a bit, but only when it stays constructive and civil. Anything else isn't worth my time, as there are plenty of positive things to spend it on and I want to keep a friendly, supportive community alive besides.
Last edited by prestidigitator on Mon Mar 18, 2013 20:56, edited 1 time in total.
 

User avatar
BlockMen
Developer
 
Posts: 768
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2013 17:24
Location: Germany
GitHub: BlockMen

by BlockMen » Mon Mar 18, 2013 22:12

BorisGrishenko wrote:For some Linux Users that hate Windows (not insulting anyone), think about it, in all perspective, many people use Windows and an equal percentage for Linux. But that does not mean Windows is a piece of garbage, nor is Linux. They both have their flaws and points. There is no such thing as the perfect OS.

Thanks.

To all Linux users: Yeah, you are right, Windows has large security lags and does not respect privacy that much.
To all Windows users: Yeah, you still have to do more on your own at Linux, but then you know what your system does.

...(thousand more points)....


To sum up: Both OS are not perfect, like BorisGrishenko already said. And repeating all time the same arguments will change NOTHING! Windows-User will stay at Windows and Linux-User will stay at Linux. (of cause there are always a few that don't fit in this rule).

BorisGrishenko: +1
 

User avatar
jojoa1997
Member
 
Posts: 2890
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 05:11
Location: Earth

by jojoa1997 » Mon Mar 18, 2013 22:14

prestidigitator wrote:There are many reasons Windows is vastly inferior. People are certainly still free to use it, but they had better not ask me for support with networking problems or whatever.

The Minecraft debate does get a little old, but the reason I'D like to see Minetest not try to emulate Minecraft is that I'd like it to grow into something better, that has great features Minecraft doesn't. If all people have their eyes on is re-implementing Minecraft features, all we'll do is play a continual game of catch-up. Other than that, I personally don't care how similar or dissimilar they are. Good ideas are good ideas. Bad ideas (indestructible obsidian? diamond tools, weapons, and armor? really?) are bad ideas.

I like debating a bit, but only when it stays constructive and civil. Anything else isn't worth my time, as there are plenty of positive things to spend it on and I want to keep a friendly, supportive community alive besides.
I think armor is a nice feature as long as we don't turn in a survive first and build when you get 3 free minutes out of 10
Coding;
1X coding
3X debugging
12X tweaking to be just right
 

User avatar
10twenty4
Member
 
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 20:54

by 10twenty4 » Mon Mar 18, 2013 22:48

I think armor is a nice feature as long as we don't turn in a survive first and build when you get 3 free minutes out of 10


Armor would be nice there were actual reasons to wear anything that wasn't diamond. For example, if stronger armor restricted your movement or had weaknesses to certain attacks other armor didn't.
 

4aiman
Member
 
Posts: 1208
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2012 05:47

by 4aiman » Mon Mar 18, 2013 23:44

This isn't debate - there're many points of view but many of them are just statements w/o any solid ground. Minecraft is bad? Then why? It's AI is awful? Then why? And what can Minetest do to have good AI? And does MT have a good AI? And is it fast? Win vs Lin and knife vs gun things mean nothing to me. Any system is either have it's own flaws or not functional at all.

prestidigitator wrote: Bad ideas (indestructible obsidian? diamond tools, weapons, and armor?

I can't call MESE tools a good idea either. It's too a crystal. Alien, true, but crystal. Crafting tools out of MESE is even more unreal then out of diamond in the part where diamonds DO exist and we have some "diamond" tools (hacksaw with a "diamond" dust on it's "sawing" edge) and MESE doesn't. The only goo thing for MESE is that it's Minetest's from the very beginning.

Also, It's true that there's no way one can make armor (especially pants) out of stone or diamond IRL, but that things aren't invented by Notch or Jeb or anyone amongst MC devs/fanbase. Just look at any JRPG and you'll see much more "bad" ideas like "rainbow mail" as an armor or "pretty knot" as a weapon, talking bats and other nonsense ideas that bring joy and amusement.
One says smth is unreal while other says about that very smth being cool. How we possibly can tell whether the idea of building houses out of apples is bad or good? So if someone wants to have diamond armor - leave them be and concentrate on things you want for yourself.

I doubt that many people want to emulate Minecraft, 'cause there are things that just aren't nice (like many mods craft recipes or indeed crappy boss fight). But there are features that will make MT better, even being adopted from Minecraft. Infiminer can't be the only "ancestor" of Minetest. It's wrong to say that even w/o Minecraft Minetest still would exist - it would be DiFfErEnT Minetest if any then. Things like furnaces, chests, trees were introduced to blocky world not by Infiminer. ;)
Some Ideas was adopted or wait to be merged (particles, movement, shaders, anaglyph 3d etc) some are not welcome amongst many people here (diamonds, nether, etc).
I'm really glad that there are Mesecons and Technic and Worldedit and Buckets and Beds. This ideas have gone too far to be ignored or denied. But on the other hand fast teleporters are still not possible, /clearobjects cannot be stopped from deleting mobs (and even some modders think then don't need that at least to save some entities properties), there's no wheather (which should be defined by biome and humidity), we still have water that flows but cannot push players etc... All things above are from MC but for some reason considered as bad ideas.

Well, I doubt anyone will agree with me. MT don't have to chase MC, but to be better not only for those who contribute to it, MT should adopt wa-a-ay more familiar to minecrafters things. In a for of mods as long as possible. Only then an answer for "Why MT is better than MC?" Won't be "It has modding API and it's opensource." Those two things make it better only for the likes of me.

BlockMen wrote:Windows-User will stay at Windows and Linux-User will stay at Linux. (of cause there are always a few that don't fit in this rule
I'm a wereuser: Win at work, Ubuntu at home :) +1, Blockman!
Last edited by 4aiman on Mon Mar 18, 2013 23:46, edited 1 time in total.
 

User avatar
10twenty4
Member
 
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 20:54

by 10twenty4 » Tue Mar 19, 2013 00:11

4aiman wrote:This isn't debate - there're many points of view but many of them are just statements w/o any solid ground. Minecraft is bad? Then why? It's AI is awful? Then why? And what can Minetest do to have good AI? And does MT have a good AI?


Let me rephrase: the creative mode of Minecraft is fine; it's a fun virtual lego builder. The vanilla survival mode is bad from a gameplay standpoint. I just didn't really want to go over all the points in detail again. this guy does it better than I can http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1271915-the-survival-part-of-the-game-is-bad-on-a-fundamental-level/ He's also rewritten that post to be less vitriolic, but I prefer this version. The posts after him also demonstrate how terrible the community is.
tldr:

  • There isn't any type of guidance. Having an open sandbox game is one thing, but forcing a player to consult a wiki to know how to play is bad design.
  • There's no actual difficulty. Adjusting difficulty merely affects health and damage values, when ideally it would affect the mobs' ai or other factors. Plus, the ability to change difficulty mid-game makes the entire point of difficulty moot.
  • Mobs are nothing more than a nuisance at the moment. They're easy to avoid, and almost never pose any type of threat.
  • the biomes are dull. Although aesthetically they look different, functionally there isn't a difference between them. There aren't changes in monsters (although I think slimes spawn in swamps now, which is a step in the right direction), or new resources that only appear in some biomes (for the most part). The default terrain generator also doesn't take advantage of the increased height limit, which is a waste.
  • There's no variation in equipment. Once diamond is obtained, there's no reason not to use it. There's only one type of melee weapon, one kind of ranged. minecraft combat is a joke.

Finally, the devs are terrible at fixing things. They choose to implement the bare minimum of new content, because they know the community will lap it up regardless. Remember the Better than Wolves mod? A player was frustrated at how little the devs did, so in the same timeframe it took the devs, he created a mod which added dozens of unique and useful items, including windmills and other power sources.
Last edited by 10twenty4 on Tue Mar 19, 2013 00:16, edited 1 time in total.
 

User avatar
Menche
Member
 
Posts: 997
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 00:43
Location: An island in a lava lake.
IRC: Menche
In-game: Menche

by Menche » Tue Mar 19, 2013 02:14

4aiman wrote:I can't call MESE tools a good idea either. It's too a crystal. Alien, true, but crystal.

Not really. The type of material MESE is wasn't set until the stupid update that changed it to crystal.
An innocent kitten dies every time you top-post.
 

User avatar
Likwid H-Craft
Member
 
Posts: 1113
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 14:20
Location: Lost in Crypt

by Likwid H-Craft » Tue Mar 19, 2013 04:23

Halo Vs. Cod!

Alot go down about it so choose what FPS you like better.

Me:Halo All the way!
My Domain's/others:
http://likwidtest.hj.cx/ (Not Done)
 

User avatar
10twenty4
Member
 
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 20:54

by 10twenty4 » Tue Mar 19, 2013 04:28

Likwid H-Craft wrote:Halo Vs. Cod!

Alot go down about it so choose what FPS you like better.

Me:Halo All the way!


Halo 3 was good, so was the first Modern Warfare and CoDs before that. At this point the CoD series is casualized and over-exposed. Although not necessarily a bad game, it's iterated too often.

I have to prefer Halo however, because as important as multiplayer is to both games, at least Halo still puts a lot of emphasis on its campaign.

Regardless, I would much rather play something like Tribes, Quake Live, or TF2.
 

User avatar
Likwid H-Craft
Member
 
Posts: 1113
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 14:20
Location: Lost in Crypt

by Likwid H-Craft » Tue Mar 19, 2013 04:33

10twenty4 wrote:
Likwid H-Craft wrote:Halo Vs. Cod!

Alot go down about it so choose what FPS you like better.

Me:Halo All the way!


Halo 3 was good, so was the first Modern Warfare and CoDs before that. At this point the CoD series is casualized and over-exposed. Although not necessarily a bad game, it's iterated too often.

I have to prefer Halo however, because as important as multiplayer is to both games, at least Halo still puts a lot of emphasis on its campaign.

Regardless, I would much rather play something like Tribes, Quake Live, or TF2.


Have you ever Played Garry's Mod Before? it a top-notch game plus it has lua:) I made about 50 things before.

Hmm, we should try make Minetest stuff on it like oh Minecraft.
My Domain's/others:
http://likwidtest.hj.cx/ (Not Done)
 

prestidigitator
Member
 
Posts: 640
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2013 23:54

by prestidigitator » Tue Mar 19, 2013 05:37

jojoa1997 wrote:I think armor is a nice feature as long as we don't turn in a survive first and build when you get 3 free minutes out of 10


10twenty4 wrote:Armor would be nice there were actual reasons to wear anything that wasn't diamond. For example, if stronger armor restricted your movement or had weaknesses to certain attacks other armor didn't.


Agreed on both points. It wasn't armor in general I was talking about, but the idea of building it out of diamond. Or gold or silver for that matter. There are very good reasons those materials are/were not used for armor or weapons in the real world (with the exception of cosmetic display on purely decorative objects not meant for real use).

The reason I don't have such a big problem with mese is that if you are going to make a super weapon/tool/whatever that defies all notion of reality, it SHOULD at least be made using some element of "believable" magic/super-science, instead of simply making it purely out of a real-world material that may be rare and expensive but has properties we know full well would make it ridiculous for the stated purpose.

Borrowing "mithril" for making super weapons/tools/armor isn't a bad idea, but I'd say if anyone wanted to use it as a wondrous energy source like mese is used, they should go back and review their Tolkien (who invented the notion of "mithril" as a lightweight, strong, extremely rare metal). If you're going to borrow something from reality or established fiction, go with the flow to some extent at least.

The playability is also a good point. I'd love to see more unique properties (benefits, drawbacks, and character) to different materials (or constructions!), rather than just a simple progression from undeniably bad to vastly superior.
Last edited by prestidigitator on Tue Mar 19, 2013 05:42, edited 1 time in total.
 

Next

Return to General Discussion



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: R-One and 3 guests