My Fears...

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xavier108
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by xavier108 » Wed Apr 10, 2013 15:32

Jordach wrote:Minetest in recent months has started to lose things which made it stick out from the others. Since c55 left the project, [...]
I damn agree with you.It is good to have new ore but replacung our precious mese and turning that damn diamond to the rarest ore really pissed me of next to lava being crap.But I got an idea how about adding this in the playing mod minecraft and minetest.Minecraft will be like minecraft while minetest will be minetest.Also I want the old mese back intstead this damn ore
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by xavier108 » Wed Apr 10, 2013 15:37

BorisGrishenko wrote:I don't mind the change for the renewable lava, lava isn't that much of an asset to me. But I concur with Jordach that if Minetest will have updates similar to Minecraft, then people will not be used to these changes and Minetest will not be that much as unique. And people from the Minecraft Forums will get even more pissed off because the changes of Minetest are similar to them. They'll just find a way of bringing Minetest down.
They are already finding a way to defeat us.I can't give the link but they're talking on how to defeat us.
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by oxenfreedan » Fri Apr 12, 2013 01:22

Your right it should go back to being its own game and even add back old monsters and stuff from some of the most original versions! P.S. another fear minecraft has copyrite if the game would get to much like they're trash are whole game could get sued or shut down!
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by jojoa1997 » Fri Apr 12, 2013 01:36

There is one problem. As long as we dont use names for mobs in default specil to minecraft like creepers then it is fine. We never took any JAVA CODE SO WE ARE SAFE THERE. Also i think they are takiing ideas from us. I remember someone taliking about a horse mod and showing a model(it got real popular) and also how come they all of a sudden switched to texztures that are seperate files.
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by fishyWET » Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:01

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Last edited by fishyWET on Tue Apr 04, 2017 06:14, edited 1 time in total.
 

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by jojoa1997 » Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:05

fishyWET wrote:
PilzAdam wrote:The problem with developing minetest_game is that its not possible to create a game that everyone is happy with. So we have two options:
  1. We do it like we have done it the last few months (since I am here) and dont add any features. We only do some minor tweaks and bugfixes.
    The community will start to make mods that make a real game out of the boring minetest_game. The vanilla game will be unplayable because there are only a very few features and new users will mostly be disappointed and leave.
  2. We actually start developing and add in features that make the gameplay more fun (like I have tried it the last few days). There will be some features that will not make everyone happy, but they are important for a challenging survival game.
    The problem is that the users have billions of oppinions and suggestion, and we wont be able to add them all in. We have to find a general direction in wich minetest_game should go and add in all the features that suit this direction and leave the rest out.
    The result will be a pretty nice vanilla game that is playable without mods. But if some users dont like the style of it, they can simply go to the forum and install mods or other games that have different goals.

minetest_game simply cant be a game that suits everyones needs, so in my opinion we just pick a direction (challenging survival gameplay with enough freedom to build) and add features that actually support this goal.
The other way would be the option number one from above, and in the long term this would be Minetests death.

PilzAdam, if we are copying Minecraft wouldn't that make Minetest's death come eariler?
not really minecraft has good features but we have major configurability so we can have both with the new survival and build games. The one thing we need to do is put every mod in common and reference it from the games
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by CryAngel » Fri Apr 12, 2013 13:40

i wonder why some people so fear copying minecraft. well, 1:1 copy will be bad but anyway, minecraft have many good features, which come from users suggestions. in other words many things in minecraft - is actually what users want. avoiding some things just because they already implemented in minecraft will be avoiding user wishes then. im sure each thing or feature must be rated and some of them will not be accepted but only because they really bad and not because 'is looks like minecraft'. is my opinion.
 

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by fishyWET » Fri Apr 12, 2013 14:51

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Last edited by fishyWET on Tue Apr 04, 2017 06:14, edited 1 time in total.
 

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by Psychotic » Fri Apr 12, 2013 21:47

Remember when Minetest was fun and unique, and wasnt turning into a Minecraft clone?

Pepperidge Farm remembers.
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by Nebucad » Sat Apr 13, 2013 00:15

Minetest / Minecraft.

If Minecraft wouldn't be so famous/popular, well you can imagine....

Minecraft has a good mixture of building/ resurces farming and game entertainment It's build for massive.
easy rules with cute style exatcly what the facebook-social-game generation want it.

One the other side mine-test are amazing. Player created Mods which easily fit in his own game. this only happend to due of all Linux/Ubuntu users. losing those benefit, i would say this is a no go.

And right now we have the situation. I guess many player who are pissed of, because of all those changes are mostly Linux-user. They perfer a clean smal gamepackage. actually only the Gamebasics and nothing more. they're used to create they own Mods or Addons so they are saddified with basics.

Well i hope you got it where i want to go. You cant stay in the tradion of Linux and creating Programms for individual minoritys but if you want to create somthing big, you have to go for common stuffs and trends.

As a tribute to the roots, a nice clean basic, for all those passionated player should be offered.
this means, according to my opinion minetest would be by now finished. You got your Mods developed by independents and you got your basic stable game -> done!

honestly if minetest right now done it'll be for ever obscure. Amazing possibilities whitout publicity. the end of the story is, the game would die quiet.

With a lack of players, no new ideas comming up. no new mods would be developed as well. the great mods are basically done. right now only some extension and improvement are following. what happend than?

Minetest need a basic game development/ setup who suits the most player and this would be the entertainment section. this means minetest have to go in the way of minecraft but it doesn't have to be like minecraft!

The core packgage have to include some addons and nice stuff. definitely not like it is right now. that's to low, to plain to boring to play this game for a longer time and you need time to dig for resources or to build anything. It's time to think what should the basic game or the casuall part a player offer, instead of blaming why major change has be done.
 

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by Michael Eh? » Sat Apr 13, 2013 00:26

Several things have changed.. like nyancat block being redundant. However, is minetest a minecraft clone? no.

I think that each individual server using LUA can make their own flavor of minetest. I was playing at coffee shop when a couple behind me said,

"I don't remember paved roads in minecraft."

I explained that it was 'mineTEST' and open modding of the game and where to get it and which servers to go and avoid.

I think what has changed is the direction C55 wanted was the platform be able to play on any machine. Sure it's more glossy product but far way from what MineCRAFT is.

I don't mind if some things from minecraft are picked up on but minetest is far from being just a clone.

I do what has changed the game is PvP, PKer (Player Killers), mean spirited players like LandMine, Dr_Internet, MDK (MurderDeathKill). Those who strive to destroy to community which players try to build. Sure there is some characters out there but then there is some gems of players and server admins. Otherwise, I would be building in local mode.

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by Casimir » Sat Apr 13, 2013 18:08

Michael Eh? wrote:Sure it's more glossy product [...]

So minetest already is a product? How sad.
Last edited by Casimir on Sat Apr 13, 2013 18:09, edited 1 time in total.
 

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by VanessaE » Sat Apr 13, 2013 19:08

"[...] like nyancat block being redundant."

How so?
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by prestidigitator » Sun Apr 14, 2013 01:11

jojoa1997 wrote:There is one problem. As long as we dont use names for mobs in default specil to minecraft like creepers then it is fine. We never took any JAVA CODE SO WE ARE SAFE THERE.

Actually no. Not in the slightest. 1.) Porting code to another language would be a form of copying (though I find it unlikely this has happened), and 2.) there are far more forms of copyright infringement and other IP theft than the simple copying of code. Just look at the mobile device/phone wars that have been going on. People get sued for emulating the same sort of little bounce at the end of scrolling, for example. It gets absolutely ridiculous often enough, but it's a fact of our modern world.

So no, I would not say that Minetest is safe at all in a legal sense. But while it is not necessarily safe theoretically, the combination of international location (of both games' developers and hosted sites), the fact that there is no (that I know of) incorporated business to target on the Minetest end, and the size/attitude of Minecraft's developers could (could!) all be factors that help it out. The most important thing to consider: is Minetest really a threat? How much practical, bottom line benefit would there be in going after it?
Last edited by prestidigitator on Sun Apr 14, 2013 01:12, edited 1 time in total.
 

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by IthegeekRS » Tue Dec 24, 2013 02:56

PilzAdam wrote:In addition to what I said above:
The community should start developing more game(mode)s. Single mods have to run with a game (wich is minetest_game by default) wich isnt good in all cases if minetest_game turns into a survival direction.
If more games would exist, the users could decide wich one is best for them and there wouldnt be that much discussions about what the default game should be.
For example, the technic mod is complex enough to be a whole game.

I'm satisfied in minetest. I have a laptop that was slow when I bought it. Now I downloaded:
Minetest,Terraria,Chrome,Audacity, Skype,Stecnyl,Greenfoot,JDK, Shall I go on? My point is Pilzadam is doing fine. However, Pilzadam, I'd gladly help you out by setting up a Minetest vote for features website and advertize both minetest.net and the vote website on my personal website. Yes, I'm that satisfied in Minetest. Oh, and I saw some people have @minetest.net emails, How do I get them?
 

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by Dopium » Tue Dec 24, 2013 04:10

Great spot to add my ideas not that they matter but it is an opinion, as my views have changed over time i have to agree not everyone will be happy with changes. As for myself the vanilla game is pretty much there as far as content goes, other content i can add via mods.

Other then that i think optimizing the engine, features like 3d wielded items, entities (mobs-logic), biome atmosphere/temperatures, weather and things like that should be the main focus of additions to the main game. However this is just my opinion and boils down to what PilzAdam was saying, some may not want certain changes to the main game.

Whether we all like it or not the day will come where the vanilla minetest game will have features you do not want. Some sooner then later, it is that far in development now that forks will be the only way to keep the majority happy.

There is a catch with taking the keep everyone happy road though. One problem is there is no set direction/path the game is heading, this could be the achilles heel/ backbone breaker. Close source game developers add what they think is beneficial not always what fans want. Close source games it is a tough titties situation if you do not like a feature, the developers have a direction they are heading to prolong development.

Very controversial topic as some are happy, others want more or less. The question is what road do we take? Keep everyone happy? or best interest in development and not alienating new users with a very basic vanilla game? Personally i am glad it is not my decision.
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by RealBadAngel » Tue Dec 24, 2013 11:55

Engine's thing is to provide modders EVERYTHING they could need when creating a mod or a game.
Feature doesnt mean it shall or have to be used.
But it can be used. IF A MODDER DECIDE TO DO SO.

For that mod another can vote by downloading and playing it...
 

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by GingerHunter797 » Tue Dec 24, 2013 14:59

Jordach wrote:Since c55 left the project,


Did Celeron really leave? :'(

Calinou wrote:
tinoesroho wrote:Or, do the smart thing and seperate Minetest-engine and minetest-game more. Updates to the engine should only be done that enable a wider range of possibilities (like LUA-settable player HP, movement speed, jump) and...

We can break the minetest_game project into several projects: mesetint (classic minetest), minetest (barebones), minefest (more of a full-fledged game project).

Minetest is about freedom. Freedom to innovate. Freedom from being pissed off by executive decisions. We can avoid pissing players off by producing more variety, and by providing a versatile engine.


+1, we could have 4 games like this:
- classic (0.3.3-like)
- minetest (just like it is right now)
- minefest (lots of mods shipped by default)
- minecraft_like (tries to be as close as Minecraft as possible).

It's the best of all worlds we could do.


I like this idea!

PilzAdam wrote:The problem with developing minetest_game is that its not possible to create a game that everyone is happy with. So we have two options:
  1. We do it like we have done it the last few months (since I am here) and dont add any features. We only do some minor tweaks and bugfixes.
    The community will start to make mods that make a real game out of the boring minetest_game. The vanilla game will be unplayable because there are only a very few features and new users will mostly be disappointed and leave.
  2. We actually start developing and add in features that make the gameplay more fun (like I have tried it the last few days). There will be some features that will not make everyone happy, but they are important for a challenging survival game.
    The problem is that the users have billions of oppinions and suggestion, and we wont be able to add them all in. We have to find a general direction in wich minetest_game should go and add in all the features that suit this direction and leave the rest out.
    The result will be a pretty nice vanilla game that is playable without mods. But if some users dont like the style of it, they can simply go to the forum and install mods or other games that have different goals.

minetest_game simply cant be a game that suits everyones needs, so in my oppinion we just pick a direction (challenging survival gameplay with enough freedom to build) and add features that actually support this goal.
The other way would be the option number one from above, and in the long term this would be Minetests death.


I support option 2! I want a challenging survival game!
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