I found MESE in Real Life!

User avatar
Jeija
Member
Posts: 686
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 21:46
Location: Nürtingen, Germany

I found MESE in Real Life!

by Jeija » Post

I found MESE in Real Life! (Obviously an April Fool from 1st April 2013)

I'm somewhat confused right now, so I'm sorry if this post here is kind of unstructured.
I know that this sounds unbelievable for most of you, but I saw a
little yellow thing sticking out of the dirt in the garden.
I dug it out - and it was a MESE block! Seems like connecting mesecons with the room light has opened some kind of gate
that allows minetest to get outside my computer!

Image

(As you can see, it was a MESE Block, no crystal/or and not deep under the surface,
it structure was not crackly, crumbly or snappy, but oddly MESEy)
My first thought that came to my mind: Can I make mesecons out of it?

Image
Image

I put the Mese on my workbench and tried to cut out some mesecons
with a side cutter - and I succeeded!!
I was able to make 7 mesecons out of that block.

Image

Luckily, I had some stone in the garden and two steel ingots lying around in the basement.
What a coincidence! I could easily craft a switch out of it:

Image

The switch worked just like in minetest... very interesting!
Some of you may wonder about the electrical properties of RL mesecons:
This part is very interesting, but I can hardly tell you how it physically works.

First of all, mesecons do not conduct the conventional way. As you can see in the video below,
they were not conductive at all when doing a continuity check. However, when turning on the switch
and measuring the voltage, I got 3.3V:

Image

How is that possible??
My explanation would be, that mesecons do conduct, but they conduct both poles at once in a strange way
in the same conductor - don't ask me how that physically works! The electrons seem to find their way
to the right electrode themselves.
I know that some amongst you still won't believe me - watch this video and see yourself:

Image

I hope I could clear up any doubts now. I wonder if I can install even more mods on the real life...
Maybe the Flying Spaghetti Monster will give me SSH access to the RL server?
What mods should I install then? Their minetest version seems to be pretty outdated (according to the Mese texture). Should I update?

Cheers,
Jeija
Last edited by Jeija on Tue Apr 02, 2013 06:31, edited 1 time in total.
Redstone for minetest: Mesecons (mesecons.net)

User avatar
Likwid H-Craft
Member
Posts: 1113
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 14:20
Location: Lost in Crypt

by Likwid H-Craft » Post

This is so cool :) Now that mese is mese all right :)

I don't get how one makes light glow with out power, that must be real mesecons :)

Now only if we can get this, up to alot of views and likes.
Last edited by Likwid H-Craft on Sun Mar 31, 2013 22:54, edited 1 time in total.
My Domain's/others:
http://likwidtest.hj.cx/ (Not Done)

User avatar
Josh
Member
Posts: 1146
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 23:11
Location: Victoria, Australia

by Josh » Post

Lol, i was laughing while i was reading it. but very good job at making the mesecon thing's in real life! maybe we could have a mesecons playset as minetest merchandise, and you could make them jeija :)

User avatar
BrandonReese
Member
Posts: 839
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 00:44
GitHub: bremaweb
IRC: BrandonReese
In-game: BrandonReese
Location: USA

by BrandonReese » Post

I love it!

User avatar
VanessaE
Moderator
Posts: 4564
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 12:38
GitHub: VanessaE
IRC: VanessaE
In-game: VanessaE
Location: Western NC
Contact:

by VanessaE » Post

Although this was originally meant as a joke when Jeija first wrote his post, Josh did make a good point. Mesecons in the form of a play-set would be a great idea, and not too difficult to implement in real life. For the sake of getting the idea "out there", here's my vision of how one might implement this stuff:

Scale: approximately 1/10 -- a wire would be 10cm long and roughly 2x1 cm cross section, a Mese block would be a 10 cm cube, a Lua/microcontroller would be 10cm on an edge and about 2cm thick, etc.

Mesecons wires would have three internal conductors (power, ground return, and signal wire) with some kind of simple non-reversible connector at each end (and on the sides and top). Each segment should have LEDs and an appropriate driver circuit inside; the casing should be translucent yellow, so the "wires" can light up when they receive a signal. The power/ground conductors and their connectors should be capable of carrying at least 10W. Power/ground must be common to all devices in a circuit, no matter how far apart they are or how many devices there are between one end and the other of a given layout.

A Mese block would be a translucent yellow box with whichever "MESE" graphic is best, with connectors in several locations, and several amber LEDs strategically positioned inside so that the whole block lights up. The LED drivers and the like should be concentrated in the center of the cube, and the internal wiring to them needs to be as thin as practical, to avoid affecting the outward appearance of the cube (e.g. due to shadows/mismatched colors vs. the translucent casing).

Each device that only receives a signal and performs an action should draw its power from the incoming power on its connector.

Sticky pistons could use blue-tack or some other similar reusable adhesive.

Noteblocks would have to have two capacitive touch sensors on each side. One of each pair to change the pitch, and the other to set the instrument.

Lamps and lightstones would just basically be a few colored LEDs each in a fancy, translucent case. Lamps would use a few of those bright white LEDs commonly found in flashlights.

Each device that is capable of acting as a signal source should contain enough batteries to adequately supply the power rail, and should be open-emitter on the signal line (so that it naturally rides low but any device can pull it high). 3.3v power and logic outputs, and only provide power to the power rail when the device is "on". Most such devices will need automatic sleep circuits to power them down when there is no load attached or activity detected on their real-world-interface inputs.

Switches and levers would simply be a micro-switch, LED, and batteries in each, while a wall button would have those plus a simple R/C or 555 timer circuit.

A pressure plate would be a momentary switch, LED, and batteries.

A water turbine would of course have batteries and an LED, and would use a paddle attached to an optical sensor of the type used for a mouse scroll wheel, a simple R/C circuit to smooth the output from the sensor.

A "solar panel" could be a CdS cell and batteries, since a real solar panel probably wouldn't be able to generate a sufficient current in a 10x10cm square to actually be useful.

Both the water turbine and the solar panel would need a Schmitt-trigger output to let them turn on/off cleanly.

Blinky plants and Lua/microcontrollers, and delayers would just act like their regular real-world counterparts, within the confines of the Mesecons circuit model.

Delayers should respond to a pressing action on the top to change the timing.

Lua/microncontrollers and Command blocks could be programmed with the help of a USB connection to a PC.

While in use, command blocks would probably work best as a short-range WiFi or bluetooth device with some other "real world" device acting on the commands received from it (e.g. displaying some kind of output, etc).

A player detector could be a short-range IR or ultrasonic proximity detector. If you wanted it to detect an actual person by name, it would probably need to have an RFID reader also, and the "player" would need to carry a suitable ID badge, but that's kinda overcomplicated I think.

Removestones and ghoststones of course would be impossible.

Power plants should of course act like a continuous power source, and logic high on its circuit segment, with one difference from the rest of these devices: A power plant should allow the connection of an external A/C power supply, so that some of the power-hog devices on the circuit (such as the above player detector) won't run the circuit's batteries down.

Digilines devices would of course behave like their in-game counterparts. Luacontrollers would have data and clock pins for a simple serial bus, next to the regular Mesecons connector. Power/ground would be common with the regular Mesecons circuitry. Mesecons wires would be to be designed in such a way as to be able to connect to a Luacontroller but not to a Digilines wire.

For the sake of keeping the scale and positioning of the various devices game-accurate, it may be a good idea to include explicit versions of Mesecon and Digiline wires that are 90-degree bends, T-junctions, and 4-way junctions.

Don't forget the 4-way Mesecons crossover also.

-----

Legal crap:

For the sake of heading off patent trolls and bots that will eventually index this page, I hereby grant any and all copyrights, license rights, etc. to Jeija in perpetuity. The information and ideas present here are reserved exclusively for use by Jeija and whoever he sees fit to delegate copyright and reproduction licensing to, if this idea should ever be implemented in a real product. This includes any competing and/or similar products and/or the people responsible for them, such as Minecraft and/or Mojang.

-----

EDIT: revised this post a little bit to fill in some missing details, fix a couple of brain-o's, and add in some ideas for Digilines.
Last edited by VanessaE on Sat Sep 21, 2013 01:15, edited 1 time in total.
You might like some of my stuff: Plantlife ~ More Trees ~ Home Decor ~ Pipeworks ~ HDX Textures (64-512px)

Jordach
Member
Posts: 4527
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 17:58
GitHub: Jordach
IRC: Jordach
In-game: Jordach
Location: Blender Scene

by Jordach » Post

I've just seen the best April Fools ever.

Nice one Jeija.
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=19056 Solar Plains Dev Server

User avatar
MirceaKitsune
Member
Posts: 867
Joined: Sat May 21, 2011 22:31
GitHub: MirceaKitsune
IRC: Taoki
In-game: MirceaKitsune
Location: Romania, Bucharest
Contact:

by MirceaKitsune » Post

This is awesome, that is all :D

User avatar
falsegrayburger
Member
Posts: 158
Joined: Sat Aug 03, 2013 15:16
In-game: naro

by falsegrayburger » Post

Great!!

User avatar
hoodedice
Member
Posts: 1374
Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2013 06:33
GitHub: hoodedice
IRC: hoodedice
In-game: hoodedice
Location: world
Contact:

by hoodedice » Post

jenova99sephiros wrote:Great!!
DO. NOT. BUMP. OLD. POSTS. AGAIN.
7:42 PM - Bauglio: I think if you go to staples you could steal firmware from a fax machine that would run better than win10 does on any platform
7:42 PM - Bauglio: so fudge the stable build
7:43 PM - Bauglio: get the staple build

User avatar
philipbenr
Member
Posts: 1743
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2013 01:56
GitHub: philipbenr
IRC: philipbenr
In-game: robinspi
Location: United States

by philipbenr » Post

now that it isn't really old anymore, lol I love this.

User avatar
ritchie
Member
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Jul 13, 2013 11:57
IRC: Ritchie
In-game: Ritchie
Location: Czech Republic

by ritchie » Post

VanessaE wrote: A player detector is the only thing I can't think of a way to reproduce, and remove/ghoststones of course would be impossible.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive_infrared_sensor
PIR sensor can be used but have some limitations (ppl behind wall cannot be detected IIRC).

User avatar
VanessaE
Moderator
Posts: 4564
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 12:38
GitHub: VanessaE
IRC: VanessaE
In-game: VanessaE
Location: Western NC
Contact:

by VanessaE » Post

Of course an IR or ultrasonic proximity sensor might work, but the problem is attaching a player's name to it - I seem to recall this is done by placing a default sign above the detector with the player's name written on it.
You might like some of my stuff: Plantlife ~ More Trees ~ Home Decor ~ Pipeworks ~ HDX Textures (64-512px)

User avatar
ritchie
Member
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Jul 13, 2013 11:57
IRC: Ritchie
In-game: Ritchie
Location: Czech Republic

by ritchie » Post

I have an idea :) every player have own RFID tag with unique ID and player detector is RFID reader, which can be set to detect every ID or only some ID.

EDIT: I didn't notice that VanessaE changed long post.
Last edited by ritchie on Sat Sep 21, 2013 08:45, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
jogag
Member
Posts: 106
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2015 18:32
GitHub: jogag
IRC: jogag
In-game: jogag
Location: Online

Re: I found MESE in Real Life!

by jogag » Post

I'm working on real life mesecons and digilines too!
Here's the topic about that. I need to chose a chip to use for the luacontroller...

The code for the luacontroller could be compiled into C then machine code (with gcc?) and sent to the controller with some programmer block or something you place the luacontroller on and then the program will be downloaded.

Also digilines should be I2C and then you could use something like the DS1307 as RTC, and some common character LCD display (the ones you can see in printers, vending machines, telephones...) with an I2C backpack (it's very common around, easy to see in Arduino projects). For the light sensor a photoresistor connected to some I2C analog-to-digital converter.
The printer (from my Digiline Stuff modpack) could be some thermal printer with a microcontroller for controlling, and the keyboard is simple to make (with another built-in microcontroller), but a bit big... Will it fit?
We could also make a PS/2 to digiline adapter to use large keyboards (PS/2 is a very simple protocol) and a digiline to VGA adapter to use a large screen as a display.

But how to provide power to everything? Maybe some battery block that has to be added in every circuit, or embedding batteries into switches and buttons?

And there will be a breadboard adapter? :)

On the software side, we need at least 3 things:
  1. GCC to compile C code for the microcontroller
  2. A Lua-to-C compiler to turn lua code into C
  3. Libraries to easily use all digiline devices

User avatar
jogag
Member
Posts: 106
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2015 18:32
GitHub: jogag
IRC: jogag
In-game: jogag
Location: Online

Re: I found MESE in Real Life!

by jogag » Post

That LED driver would be simply a resistor + transistor which is only 2mm long... you can place it behind the LED, and you need just one for all LEDs. You even don't need a transistor if you want to control a single LED which isn't very bright.
For noteblocks, we could add the same capacitive sensor on all sides and then a color detector to detect what's down.
The speaker inside will be controlled by another built-in microcontroller which stores all samples, then when signal goes on it plays the sample based on the detection of the sensor and currently set note (read from the controller's memory). When a touch is detected (and the noteblock is powered), the microcontroller changes the stored note and plays the sample. The only two chips needed are the microcontroller and the touch sensor (but it could be made with a transistor or some microcontroller glitch...).

And the power plant should have a better shape in order to fit batteries, the barrel jack (and/or USB port) to provide power, a switch, some diodes to manage power and a 5v voltage regulator if needed (5V because the character LCDs require 5V in order to work properly). The blinky plant is simply a plant with a 555 oscillator inside it, along with a red LED.

The node detector would work with a color sensor (maybe along with a 19x19 camera like the ones used in optical mouses?) and then some mapping of the names. Again, with a built-in microcontroller.
But the most difficult is the player detector, if we want to detect names. Otherwise will be a simple PIR sensor coupled with a LED, with no other circuitry.

And luacontrollers should have 5-pin keyed connectors for digilines (data, power, not connected, ground, clock) which will be compatible with 3-wire mesecon cables (power, signal, ground). The key avoids bad inserting of cables which could make explosions or damaging (inverting polarity?).

User avatar
Alienant1
Member
Posts: 69
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 10:33
In-game: alienant1 or alienant2

Re: I found MESE in Real Life!

by Alienant1 » Post

A real-life version of a game interpretation of a real-life thing!!! (head explodes)

I like it, but can you imagine this ever getting any sales?

I didn't bump this, sorry for encouraging it.
Merry Christmas Everyone!!!

User avatar
jogag
Member
Posts: 106
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2015 18:32
GitHub: jogag
IRC: jogag
In-game: jogag
Location: Online

Re: I found MESE in Real Life!

by jogag » Post

I got some ATtiny's and I'm doing some testing. Just 8K of flash memory, but that's enough (lua scripts are compiled with some custom thing to C and then assembly language with gcc-avr). Tiny25/45 could also be used (they are identical except for the amount of flash memory, and they cost less). I will also try to build a luacontroller circuit board (on an universal protoboard!!!).

The digiline LCD will be one of those common character lcds (HD44780 chip) with I2C driver (PCF8574???). These are easy to find, on ebay you can find display + driver kits, but it's also easy to find the bare lcd and build the i2c driver circuit. The hard part is packing them in a block.
The common sizes of these screens (in rows-columns of characters):
  • 16x2 (very common, used in vending machines, landline telephones and printers)
  • 16x1 (found in some vending machines and telephones)
  • 20x2
  • 20x4 (bigger screens, found in 3D printers and some industrial controller)
  • 40x2
(It's not possible to use lcds with more characters than 80 due to I2C driver support.)

Here's a photo of a character 16x2 lcd:
Image
Here's the 20x4 display, which is bigger:
Image
(images from Adafruit)

My suggestion is to use 20x4 screens, they are big and similar to the in-game ones (that can show 4 rows). They will fit nicely.
And what about providing some "video block" that is compatible with a character lcd but shows messages on a big monitor or TV instead? (with even color support?) I did this for another project (DIY computer) and it works OK.

Could someone post some design of other components? Maybe with ATtiny microcontrollers.

User avatar
jogag
Member
Posts: 106
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2015 18:32
GitHub: jogag
IRC: jogag
In-game: jogag
Location: Online

Re: I found MESE in Real Life!

by jogag » Post

I found an issue with character LCDs: older LCDs need 5V to operate (newer work with 3.3v), and the mesecon circuits are 3.3v.
Then we have to find a display that works with just 3v (the i2c adapter works both at 5 and 3 volts) or make some type of boost converter. And boost converters are not DIY-friendly, expensive, and need a bit of engineering.

We could also use a graphical LCD. However it's difficult to find an I2C one because i2c is too slow for these.
But it's easy to build an SPI-to-I2C interface.
Two popular graphical LCDs are the PCD8544-based ones (monochrome, very small, used in early Nokia cellphones) and the 2.4 inch color TFTs with driver chips like the ILI9341. For those making an adapter is required because both controllers are SPI and the ATtiny chips don't have enough memory for the drivers (so the adapter is more like a GPU than a protocol converter).

EXTRA: a photo of my 40x2 LCD wired up to my Raspberry Pi:
Image
It won't fit in a digiline device, but it could be an "additional piece" for who wants a longer screen.
Attachments
PC290333.JPG
(173.65 KiB) Not downloaded yet

User avatar
jogag
Member
Posts: 106
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2015 18:32
GitHub: jogag
IRC: jogag
In-game: jogag
Location: Online

Re: I found MESE in Real Life!

by jogag » Post

While making a project of the programming interface for the luacontrollers, I saw an USB-to-serial dongle on my desk.
And I thought it could be used. And it can be used to program the luacontroller.

Here's one of those magic dongles:
Image

Using it has many advantages:
  • it's very cheap ($2 from china, including wires)
  • it needs drivers only on Windows (Linux and Mac have already all drivers)
  • it's the smallest option (only 4 cm long)
  • it's easy to use both in luacontroller and PC side (it works as a serial port)
  • and there are many alternative options
These devices is very common and can be found everywhere (old USB dial-up modems, most Arduino boards, some USB adapters from old cellphones and PDAs, USB to serial adapters). There are also versions of this adapter for RS-232 instead of usb.
Attachments
usb_ttl.jpg
(200.98 KiB) Not downloaded yet

User avatar
benrob0329
Member
Posts: 1337
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 22:39
GitHub: Benrob0329
IRC: benrob0329
In-game: benrob03
Location: Michigan
Contact:

Re: I found MESE in Real Life!

by benrob0329 » Post

Cool! Now I want to learn hardware!

Hay wait a minute.....I have that RPi case.......
Social: YouTube Peertube Matrix Room: #minetest:matrix.org | Games: The Infinite IKEA

User avatar
jogag
Member
Posts: 106
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2015 18:32
GitHub: jogag
IRC: jogag
In-game: jogag
Location: Online

Re: I found MESE in Real Life!

by jogag » Post

If you want to learn hardware, I suggest you to start with Arduino, which is an 8-bit microcontroller packaged in a fancy circuit board, with one of these dongles built in.
There are many tutorials and examples on the web about Arduino. Just search for them :)
If you know a bit of Javascript or Lua (= luacontrollers!), you can buy a STM32F4 Discovery board. It has an ARM Cortex-M4 32-bit microcontroller, and it's supported by Espruino (JS) and eLua. And you will get a 32 bit luacontroller in real life.

User avatar
jogag
Member
Posts: 106
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2015 18:32
GitHub: jogag
IRC: jogag
In-game: jogag
Location: Online

Re: I found MESE in Real Life!

by jogag » Post

Here's a quick Fritzing drawing about a luacontroller project:
Image
I will make the circuit board design in KiCad soon.
Attachments
Untitled Sketch_bb.png
(39.89 KiB) Not downloaded yet

User avatar
jogag
Member
Posts: 106
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2015 18:32
GitHub: jogag
IRC: jogag
In-game: jogag
Location: Online

Re: I found MESE in Real Life!

by jogag » Post

Back after a very long while...
My laptop's keyboard broke and now I have an uncovered computer. And I'm using a mini wireless keyboard which is usable just for quick coding and web searching, and not intended for playing MT. So I can't debug my mods and make complex stuff.

But I got an idea for ghoststones: liquid crystals. The sides of the block would be made of a 10x10 single-pixel LCD with no reflective backing or backlight. This way, when the big pixels are not powered, you can see through the block, but when the LCDs are powered, they will make the entire block become black.
Problem: this is inverted, so we should use either an inverter for the signal (but the block will return clear if the power is turned off or the mesecon disconnected!) or negative crystals. Anyway, we can't DIY this because there's a custom LCD to make. And that means messing everything up, finding a manufacturer, and $$$.

User avatar
cheapie
Member
Posts: 315
Joined: Mon May 14, 2012 00:59
GitHub: cheapie
IRC: cheapie
In-game: cheapie

Re: I found MESE in Real Life!

by cheapie » Post

jogag wrote:Anyway, we can't DIY this because there's a custom LCD to make. And that means messing everything up, finding a manufacturer, and $$$.
Some guy managed to make one...

User avatar
MineYoshi
Member
Posts: 5373
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 13:20
Contact:

Re: I found MESE in Real Life!

by MineYoshi » Post

What an easter egg about Minetest!
Oi

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests