Hmmmm had not designed it on his own. His work is based on a pull request from Metology.mauvebic wrote:Hmmm designed it, he can fix it.celeron55 wrote:and for example somebody to design and implement more advanced positioning in the Lua HUD interface.
Community chosen release.
I'm not denying the work that was put into it, i saw the commit. But if we are expected to develop the features we want, why do you expect us to fix the features you guys put into it?celeron55 wrote:Stop being an unknowledgeable ass. Hmmmm just reworked it better from what some guy initially made.mauvebic wrote: Hmmm designed it, he can fix it. Just like we are being asked to implement our own colored lighting.
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To fix / improve the HUD API feedback from modders is needed.mauvebic wrote:I'm not denying the work that was put into it, i saw the commit. But if we are expected to develop the features we want, why do you expect us to fix the features you guys put into it?celeron55 wrote:Stop being an unknowledgeable ass. Hmmmm just reworked it better from what some guy initially made.mauvebic wrote: Hmmm designed it, he can fix it. Just like we are being asked to implement our own colored lighting.
To be perfectly honest, I didn't ask for hud, and have no mod ideas in mind for it. Nor does it make my worlds more interesting, since i F1 + F2 before taking screenshots. That doesn't mean I have to knock it, since i know many modders do want that feature, but i don't see why I should drop what I want.PilzAdam wrote:To fix / improve the HUD API feedback from modders is needed.mauvebic wrote:I'm not denying the work that was put into it, i saw the commit. But if we are expected to develop the features we want, why do you expect us to fix the features you guys put into it?celeron55 wrote:
Stop being an unknowledgeable ass. Hmmmm just reworked it better from what some guy initially made.
Stop whining and already go making your fork. And good luck with it.mauvebic wrote:To be perfectly honest, I didn't ask for hud, and have no mod ideas in mind for it. Nor does it make my worlds more interesting, since i F1 + F2 before taking screenshots. That doesn't mean I have to knock it, since i know many modders do want that feature, but i don't see why I should drop what I want.
This is the, frankly, sour attitude that causes this friction and incommunication.celeron55 wrote: Stop whining and already go making your fork. And good luck with it.
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Look, over there, some chill pills!
Seriously, I smell a good amount of Arrogance from everyone here, arrogance+debate= bitterness/nothing good.
Hey
Guys
Look, over there, some chill pills!
Seriously, I smell a good amount of Arrogance from everyone here, arrogance+debate= bitterness/nothing good.
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I don't even know what he is asking about, and such doesn't seem to be contained in this discussion at least. Maybe you should make a clear proposal at eg. http://dev.minetest.net/Proposals so that people would even see it? OTOH, I don't know why you should be the one to write such and not the 100 others with ideas. Basically our only reliable way of ranking the importance of things is that those things are important that the one suggesting them does or prototypes themselves.rarkenin wrote:This is the, frankly, sour attitude that causes this friction and incommunication.celeron55 wrote: Stop whining and already go making your fork. And good luck with it.
I don't have any proposals at the moment, but I'll draft up a proposal system proposal in userspace.celeron55 wrote:I don't even know what he is asking about, and such doesn't seem to be contained in this discussion at least. Maybe you should make a clear proposal at eg. http://dev.minetest.net/Proposals so that people would even see it? OTOH, I don't know why you should be the one to write such and not the 100 others with ideas. Basically our only reliable way of ranking the importance of things is that those things are important that the one suggesting them does or prototypes themselves.rarkenin wrote:This is the, frankly, sour attitude that causes this friction and incommunication.celeron55 wrote: Stop whining and already go making your fork. And good luck with it.
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I perfectly know you were/are mostly out. That's why I said what I said.celeron55 wrote:If you don't happen to know, I have been mostly out from MT's development for months now. And will be in the future too.
You're wrong. You're a perfect example And your words confirm that as well: devs too busy maintaining/doing other stuff.celeron55 wrote:I try to come in and consult stuff when needed, and try to solve the worst disputes. So taking me as an example is simply not a reasonable example at all. Also, initially MT was my personal project and I had my completely own ideas and plans, and didn't want any help, so that isn't applicable either.
Last edited by 4aiman on Sat Apr 20, 2013 23:34, edited 1 time in total.
Draft proposal: http://dev.minetest.net/Rarkenin/Proposal_System
Please discuss on associated talk page or here on the forums.
Please discuss on associated talk page or here on the forums.
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I still don't understand what you expect. Do you expect me to ban hmmmm from everywhere and put you in the place of him? Do you understand how impossible your demands are?mauvebic wrote:There never was a plan to make a fork, the plan was to add a worthy feature to this game, if it weren't for the obstructionist attitudes of it's lead developers.
I'm trying to get power back in the hands of the community with this proposal. Banning hmmmm would be relatively unnecessary with this proposal if executed correctly.
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A project needs always people who fill up certain positions. Ofc the members can change, but they have to be qualified.
We have a dev-team and that makes great work! if there is something you want to be added, then make it in clean code.
it is an impertinence trowing the code in and then say: now do the work.
And if the dev-team says no you have to options: accept it or make your own fork. Thats all!
We have a dev-team and that makes great work! if there is something you want to be added, then make it in clean code.
it is an impertinence trowing the code in and then say: now do the work.
And if the dev-team says no you have to options: accept it or make your own fork. Thats all!
Not everything can be done in the Lua API though, much of the needed changes are client side. For example, it should be possible to shut off the camera jerking. Can that be done in Lua? No. Maybe C++ add-ons are viable, at least on the client side.celeron55 wrote:The general idea about this is that we shouldn't need this because MT is an open source project. Maintaining many APIs is a pain, and compiling C++ modules for all supported platforms simply sucks.rarkenin wrote:C++-side mods that can make powerful changes outside the API. These would need to be installed client-side if need be, but would have a good amount of access to the environment by way of the proper access levels being given to the instances of server, client, etc objects. We install these if we want changes that can't happen in Lua. This is relatively similar to how Minecraft works with mods acting at the engine level.
No, as he said, he doesn't really develop Minetest any more. So he's both not a developer and not a player.4aiman wrote:I perfectly know you were/are mostly out. That's why I said what I said.celeron55 wrote:If you don't happen to know, I have been mostly out from MT's development for months now. And will be in the future too.
You're wrong. You're a perfect example And your words confirm that as well: devs too busy maintaining/doing other stuff.celeron55 wrote:I try to come in and consult stuff when needed, and try to solve the worst disputes. So taking me as an example is simply not a reasonable example at all. Also, initially MT was my personal project and I had my completely own ideas and plans, and didn't want any help, so that isn't applicable either.
You're exaggerating the whole thing. I dont expect you to ban hmmm, and I certainly don't want to take his place, nor could I. I'm simply saying he's being awfully territorial, and not open to any other ideas. Do what you want with this.celeron55 wrote: I still don't understand what you expect. Do you expect me to ban hmmmm from everywhere and put you in the place of him? Do you understand how impossible your demands are?
As it stands, new contributors don't seem to be welcomed. You should have just renamed it to minetest-hmmm, and my expectations would have adjusted accordingly.
What I want is a way to get new features, a plain 'No' isn't it.
Last edited by mauvebic on Sun Apr 21, 2013 00:58, edited 1 time in total.
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Minetest lacks a certain WOW factor. More stuff in the API is a really good start, such as mob ai.As it stands, new contributors don't seem to be welcomed. You should have just renamed it to minetest-hmmm, and my expectations would have adjusted accordingly.
What I want is a way to get new features, a plain 'No' isn't it.
It does seem like we get bogged down arguing over the inane shit like mese crystals, and it blinds us to what this game is truly missing.Jordach wrote:Minetest lacks a certain WOW factor. More stuff in the API is a really good start, such as mob ai.As it stands, new contributors don't seem to be welcomed. You should have just renamed it to minetest-hmmm, and my expectations would have adjusted accordingly.
What I want is a way to get new features, a plain 'No' isn't it.
Well arent you just a rainbow of sunshine.celeron55 wrote:I still don't understand what you expect. Do you expect me to ban hmmmm from everywhere and put you in the place of him? Do you understand how impossible your demands are?mauvebic wrote:There never was a plan to make a fork, the plan was to add a worthy feature to this game, if it weren't for the obstructionist attitudes of it's lead developers.
My history isn't revenge, or hate. The road that brought us both here - isn't about that. It's about the message you carried. The one in that package whether you knew it or not. - Ulysses from Lonesome Road
I've said about "other stuff", so even if he do not code anything for minetest and do not play it - he still a good example. If you don't get my point - I'd rather try to explain myself once more: Celeron55's still here, discuss things on IRC and he know c++. He still have his "weight" or you can call it "power". He doesn't need to ban anyone, but he can influence core devs "team" for sure. And as far as I understand, every "no" should have good reasoning AND advice on what can be done to turn "no" into "yes". But not in the form "Fork it!" or "Recode it!" - both that answers add nothing to plain "no"... But that is all we have heard so far.0gb.us wrote:No, as he said, he doesn't really develop Minetest any more. So he's both not a developer and not a player.
We spent awhile talking here about hmmmm and 'nays'...
Instead of that Celeron and others who possess good "minetest and C++ knowledge" could've give a piece of advice to help this and other rejected features be coded properly and eventually get added. This conversation is surprisingly "quiet" and "smooth" (compared to what it could've been), but pointless, as there's no progression - we still told to make a fork, so at least those who suggested this are against current implementation. Let's talk about what can be done to implement this in official builds and who can make it done.
Last edited by 4aiman on Sun Apr 21, 2013 09:26, edited 1 time in total.
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