Mapgen Settings Question(s)

User avatar
Neon
Member
 
Posts: 126
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2013 02:03
In-game: Neon

Mapgen Settings Question(s)

by Neon » Wed Oct 09, 2013 08:27

What sort of server-side settings would I need to make biomes larger and to make gentler slopes? In effect, I'm looking for mapgen settings that would make the world seem larger (because hills tend to be broader and biomes larger)
 

User avatar
rubenwardy
Moderator
 
Posts: 5759
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 18:11
Location: United Kingdom
GitHub: rubenwardy
IRC: rubenwardy
In-game: rubenwardy

by rubenwardy » Wed Oct 09, 2013 08:37

All the map generation settings are here: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/minetest.conf.example#L338

These may interest you:

Code: Select all
# Offset, scale, spread factor, seed offset, number of octaves, persistence
#mgv6_np_terrain_base = -4, 20, (250, 250, 250), 82341, 5, 0.6
#mgv6_np_terrain_higher = 20, 16, (500, 500, 500), 85039, 5, 0.6
#mgv6_np_steepness = 0.85, 0.5, (125, 125, 125), -932, 5, 0.7
#mgv6_np_height_select = 0.5, 1, (250, 250, 250), 4213, 5, 0.69
#mgv6_np_mud = 4, 2, (200, 200, 200), 91013, 3, 0.55
#mgv6_np_beach = 0, 1, (250, 250, 250), 59420, 3, 0.50
#mgv6_np_biome = 0, 1, (250, 250, 250), 9130, 3, 0.50
#mgv6_np_cave = 6, 6, (250, 250, 250), 34329, 3, 0.50
#mgv6_np_humidity = 0.5, 0.5, (500, 500, 500), 72384, 4, 0.66
#mgv6_np_trees = 0, 1, (125, 125, 125), 2, 4, 0.66
#mgv6_np_apple_trees = 0, 1, (100, 100, 100), 342902, 3, 0.45


There are more settings
Last edited by rubenwardy on Wed Oct 09, 2013 08:38, edited 1 time in total.
 

User avatar
Wuzzy
Member
 
Posts: 3441
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 15:01
GitHub: Wuzzy2
IRC: Wuzzy
In-game: Wuzzy

by Wuzzy » Wed Oct 09, 2013 15:20

rubenwardy wrote:
Code: Select all
# Offset, scale, spread factor, seed offset, number of octaves, persistence


I guess many non-programmers here do not know what these words mean.
What do these words mean?

I would like to include the information on the Wiki. :-)
My creations. I gladly accept bitcoins: 17fsUywHxeMHKG41UFfu34F1rAxZcrVoqH
 

User avatar
PilzAdam
Member
 
Posts: 4026
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2012 16:19
Location: Germany
GitHub: PilzAdam
IRC: PilzAdam

by PilzAdam » Wed Oct 09, 2013 15:30

Wuzzy wrote:
rubenwardy wrote:
Code: Select all
# Offset, scale, spread factor, seed offset, number of octaves, persistence


I guess many non-programmers here do not know what these words mean.
What do these words mean?

I would like to include the information on the Wiki. :-)

Its not programming specific stuff, its used in perlin noise.
 

twoelk
Member
 
Posts: 1317
Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2013 16:19
Location: northern Germany
GitHub: twoelk
IRC: twoelk
In-game: twoelk

by twoelk » Wed Oct 09, 2013 16:20

I'd love to have a minetest wiki article on this subject to my aid.

Something easier to understand than this:
http://freespace.virgin.net/hugo.elias/models/m_perlin.htm
and this:
http://webstaff.itn.liu.se/~stegu/TNM022-2005/perlinnoiselinks/

I thought I had a pretty sure idea of what an octave was before I read the perlin stuff, now I know the word is used for things I don't get the scope of yet and surely have nothing to do with music. -- And as a warning setting the "number of octaves" value to high can crash the program.

The problem still is, one might know what perlin noise is but still not understand which value has what effect in a minetest world.

I am really looking forward to an easy to understand Wiki article on this subject.
 

User avatar
paramat
Developer
 
Posts: 3401
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2012 00:05
Location: UK
GitHub: paramat
IRC: paramat

by paramat » Wed Oct 09, 2013 17:15

#mgv6_np_biome = 0, 1, (250, 250, 250), 9130, 3, 0.50
The 'spread factor' is the 3 numbers in brackets.
Those numbers are in nodes (or metres) and very roughly define the maximum scale of that perlin structure.
So the spread factor of the biome perlin noise is very roughly the maximum size in nodes of the biomes.
To make biomes twice as big try (500, 500, 500).
There are 3 numbers to enable setting the maximum structure scale independantly for x y and z. So you could create biomes stretched in the z direction by using (250, 250, 500).
See Casimir's nodetest game for perlin parameters that create larger biomes and larger scale terrain.
Last edited by paramat on Wed Oct 09, 2013 17:18, edited 1 time in total.
 

User avatar
Casimir
Member
 
Posts: 1161
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 16:59
GitHub: CasimirKaPazi

by Casimir » Wed Oct 09, 2013 17:40

I'll give it a try. Might be wrong in some points.

offset
(?) I have no idea.

scale
(?) Scale is used to define both amplitude (and frequency). Bigger scale leads to higher mountains.

spread factor
See the post by paramat.

seed offset
The seed wont change the look of the output. It is used to create different noises with the same settings. Same seed for forests and mountains would cause forest always be on top of mountains.

number of octaves
More octaves means more details and more calculation.

persistence
Persistence defines how strong the details are visible, it does not add more of them. A low persistence will cause the terrain to be smooth, a high (max 1) causes strong ups and downs.
Last edited by Casimir on Wed Oct 09, 2013 17:45, edited 1 time in total.
 

User avatar
jojoa1997
Member
 
Posts: 2890
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 05:11
Location: Earth

by jojoa1997 » Wed Oct 09, 2013 17:41

paramat wrote:#mgv6_np_biome = 0, 1, (250, 250, 250), 9130, 3, 0.50
The 'spread factor' is the 3 numbers in brackets.
Those numbers are in nodes (or metres) and very roughly define the maximum scale of that perlin structure.
So the spread factor of the biome perlin noise is very roughly the maximum size in nodes of the biomes.
To make biomes twice as big try (500, 500, 500).
There are 3 numbers to enable setting the maximum structure scale independantly for x y and z. So you could create biomes stretched in the z direction by using (250, 250, 500).
See Casimir's nodetest game for perlin parameters that create larger biomes and larger scale terrain.
the mapgen king is here
Coding;
1X coding
3X debugging
12X tweaking to be just right
 

User avatar
paramat
Developer
 
Posts: 3401
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2012 00:05
Location: UK
GitHub: paramat
IRC: paramat

by paramat » Wed Oct 09, 2013 19:08

Offset and scale should be left alone unless you know what you are doing, these define the average value and amplitude of the noise value output.
0, 1 is standard and matches the older lua perlin functions whose scale and offset are always set to 0 and 1.
0, 1 means the noise value has an average value of 0 and varies very roughly between -1 and 1, although depending on octaves and persistence the output can occasionally be as large as -2 to 2.

(offset, scale, spread (x y z), seeddiff, octaves, persistence)
... is the format for C++ perlin, the new lua perlin map functions and register ores.

(seeddiff, octaves, persistence, scale)
... is the format for the older lua perlin function, here 'scale' is actually the 'spread', these older functions dont have parameters for offset and scale, those are fixed at 0 and 1.
Last edited by paramat on Thu Oct 10, 2013 16:24, edited 1 time in total.
 

User avatar
paramat
Developer
 
Posts: 3401
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2012 00:05
Location: UK
GitHub: paramat
IRC: paramat

by paramat » Thu Oct 10, 2013 16:32

Seed and Seeddiff
--------------------
A perlin function needs a 'seed', this is just any old random whole number that acts as a seed to 'grow' a particular noise pattern, same seed same noise pattern.

Seeddiff = seed difference.
Perlin functions that use 'seeddiff' instead of 'seed' are 'world dependant'.
The value used as a seed is worldseed + seeddiff.
Seeddiff creates perlin functions with different patterns but they also remain world dependant, meaning in different worlds you get different patterns but also in the same world you get the same pattern.

This is all 'as far as i know', the devs know much more about this than i do but may be too busy to explain.
Celeron55 and hmmmm and several others here are the authority on mapgen, i'm just a beginner with a basic programming ability and some good ideas :)
Last edited by paramat on Thu Oct 10, 2013 17:43, edited 1 time in total.
 

User avatar
philipbenr
Member
 
Posts: 1688
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2013 01:56
Location: United States
GitHub: philipbenr
IRC: philipbenr
In-game: robinspi

by philipbenr » Thu Oct 10, 2013 23:27

jojoa1997 wrote:the mapgen king is here


XD sooo true. He's made a pretty nice magpen for Magpenv7
“Would it save you a lot of time if I just gave up and went mad now?”

“I'd far rather be happy than right any day.”

“What, are you, crazy?" "It's a possibility I haven't ruled out yet"
 

User avatar
Casimir
Member
 
Posts: 1161
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 16:59
GitHub: CasimirKaPazi
 

User avatar
Neon
Member
 
Posts: 126
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2013 02:03
In-game: Neon

by Neon » Fri Oct 11, 2013 23:08

[Thumbs up] Thanks Casimir
EDIT: Added further description to wiki page
Last edited by Neon on Fri Oct 11, 2013 23:25, edited 1 time in total.
 

User avatar
vqrulane
Member
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 16:33

by vqrulane » Thu Oct 24, 2013 15:49

Can I make the map smoother and plain (but not flat)?
 

User avatar
paramat
Developer
 
Posts: 3401
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2012 00:05
Location: UK
GitHub: paramat
IRC: paramat

by paramat » Thu Oct 24, 2013 17:25

Yes by adjusting the perlin noise parameters, which mapgen, v6, v7 or indev?
 

User avatar
vqrulane
Member
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 16:33

by vqrulane » Fri Oct 25, 2013 12:42

paramat wrote:Yes by adjusting the perlin noise parameters, which mapgen, v6, v7 or indev?

I'd choose v6.
 

User avatar
paramat
Developer
 
Posts: 3401
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2012 00:05
Location: UK
GitHub: paramat
IRC: paramat

by paramat » Fri Oct 25, 2013 22:00

Code: Select all
# Offset, scale, (spread factor in x, y, z), seed offset, number of octaves, persistence
#mgv6_np_terrain_base = -4, 20, (250, 250, 250), 82341, 5, 0.6
#mgv6_np_terrain_higher = 20, 16, (500, 500, 500), 85039, 5, 0.6

Persistence is terrain 'roughness' so reduce it from 0.6 to 0.4 or lower. Same for other mapgens.
Last edited by paramat on Fri Oct 25, 2013 22:01, edited 1 time in total.
 

User avatar
vqrulane
Member
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 16:33

by vqrulane » Sat Oct 26, 2013 09:37

Thank you very much, paramat! :3
 

User avatar
paramat
Developer
 
Posts: 3401
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2012 00:05
Location: UK
GitHub: paramat
IRC: paramat

by paramat » Sat Oct 26, 2013 17:06

Forgot to clarify, reduce persistence of those 2 perlin noises only. Also you could reduce octaves by 1 or 2 in those 2 perlin noises, that will eliminate some fine detail and make mapgen slightly faster
 


Return to General Discussion



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron