Please remove the spoiler tag

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PilzAdam
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Please remove the spoiler tag

by PilzAdam » Mon Feb 17, 2014 15:30

I think that the spoiler tag is being abused in an annoying way and thus should be removed.
Some discussion in IRC:
Code: Select all
<LazyJ> Hmmm... The "spoiler" is a tool that has been abused but for those that use it responsibly it functions as it should. I'm undecided on the matter atm.
<PilzAdam> I havent seen a single spoiler tag that is used for actual spoilers
<PilzAdam> its mostly used for formatting, and that is super annyoing since viewers have to click to read
<LazyJ> Can the term be changed to something more suitable to it's more responsible use?
<PilzAdam> [annoy] would be good ;-)
<LazyJ> Instead of "spoiler" is there a way to have a... bookmark? or a type of link that takes the reader to another part of the post but only within that post?
<LazyJ> So the post's author could create a list of bookmarks at the top of the post, like an index I've seen on wiki's?
<PilzAdam> that could be handy for big posts for e.g. mods
<LazyJ> The first post on LinuxGaming's thread is quite long. It would be useful to have a section index for posts like that. VanessaE's server's first posts are similar in need.

The main problem is that spoilers are used for formatting, instead of actual spoilers. Forcing the user to click things in order to read the content is very annoying.
A recent example:
DeepGaze wrote:this is my first mod(to work)
this adds wool that cycles through the colours:
youtube video courtesy of RHR
[spoiler=screenshot]Image[/spoiler]
Dependences:
default
[spoiler=craft]

greyscale wool
_S_ S=Stone
_P_ P=Paper
___
coloured wool
_G_ G=Greyscale Wool
_M_ M=Mese Crystal
___
other colours
___
_A_ A=AniWool
___
back to greyscale
___
_A_
_M_
[/spoiler]
licence:WTFPL
TODO: make the animation time variable
and make better textures for greyscale wool

https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=8596
 

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by rubenwardy » Mon Feb 17, 2014 16:25

Putting the main content into spoilers is annoying. However, putting extra bits into spoilers is less so:

https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=6947
Last edited by rubenwardy on Mon Feb 17, 2014 16:39, edited 1 time in total.
 

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by Evergreen » Mon Feb 17, 2014 17:43

The reason people use them is to make mod topics with screenshots smaller. Heck, I even use them, it makes posts with lots of stuff in them look nicer.
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by PilzAdam » Mon Feb 17, 2014 17:46

rubenwardy wrote:Putting the main content into spoilers is annoying. However, putting extra bits into spoilers is less so:

https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=6947

You even use spoilers inside spoilers, thats even more annyoing. There are clearly better ways to format a post.

Evergreen wrote:The reason people use them is to make mod topics with screenshots smaller. Heck, I even use them, it makes posts with lots of stuff in them look nicer.

Why are you even putting screenshots in there if you dont want people to see them? And if you want them to see it, then why do you make it so hard / annoying?
 

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by LionsDen » Mon Feb 17, 2014 17:52

I like them putting screenshots in there as the forum page loads a lot faster when there are a lot of images. This way, I can ignore the images that came in earlier posts and get to the new posts quickly. Sometimes pages with a lot of images will literally take minutes to load, this speeds that process up a lot. Anyway, it seems to load a lot faster.

I have used spoiler tags improperly. I have used them to hide the previous messages info so that I can reply, this way if anyone cares to see the message I was replying to they can click and see otherwise they never see it. I also put a name like previous message so that shows instead of spoiler.
 

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by philipbenr » Mon Feb 17, 2014 17:54

LionsDen wrote:I like them putting screenshots in there as the forum page loads a lot faster when there are a lot of images. This way, I can ignore the images that came in earlier posts and get to the new posts quickly. Sometimes pages with a lot of images will literally take minutes to load, this speeds that process up a lot. Anyway, it seems to load a lot faster.

I have used spoiler tags improperly. I have used them to hide the previous messages info so that I can reply, this way if anyone cares to see the message I was replying to they can click and see otherwise they never see it. I also put a name like previous message so that shows instead of spoiler.


PilzAdam wrote:Why do you make it so hard / annoying?


I agree at this point. BTW, why is it so hard to click once on a spoiler tag? I think it is perfectly fine. I have really slow internet connection, so it is nice to have some images hidden so the page loads faster.
Last edited by philipbenr on Mon Feb 17, 2014 17:55, edited 1 time in total.
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by lightonflux » Mon Feb 17, 2014 18:06

Evergreen wrote:The reason people use them is to make mod topics with screenshots smaller. Heck, I even use them, it makes posts with lots of stuff in them look nicer.


Then we should use the wiki for general informations, screenshots and download links of mods and the forum only for discussions around/about the mod.
 

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by DeepGaze » Mon Feb 17, 2014 18:17

i thought my use was ok, it is at least better than a post three miles long(exaggeration allowed). they do save a lot of hassle when loading and they are only spammy when people abuse them.
earlier i saw a signature with 15 spoilers in a row. that was spam. hiding screenshots and lengths of useless text is acceptable in my view, my point is that the problem is not the spoiler feature it is the idiots using them.
please grow up and shut up along the way
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by philipbenr » Mon Feb 17, 2014 18:25

DeepGaze wrote:please grow up and shut up along the way


+1 I intend to use that quote with a few people I know.
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by twoelk » Mon Feb 17, 2014 18:34

I have only just started to use the spoiler tag, because I began to see it's usefulness and allready people want to do away with it. :-(

I was irritated when it was introduced to this forum as I saw no need for a "spoiler" tag as in sites that let you decide to see information that might spoil the fun of some activity. I have since seen interesting uses of it on this forum and come to the conclusion that it is indeed a very usefull formating tool. Of course it is easily abused just like CAPS or colored fonts -
but of course if the tag is only allowed to be used for the one and only one purpose it indicates in it's name it might hurt the eye of the purist - but then I guess most other posts do so too.

I think like many other features it can be a very powerfull and usefull tool to make posts more readable and would rather keep it just like all those other easily abused tools.
 

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by webdesigner97 » Mon Feb 17, 2014 18:44

I think it should stay. I use it to shorten my mod topics to the minimal length. Tjose who want to see screenshots/crafts can open the spoilers. When I visit the forums from my mobile, I'm happy that the images don't load automatically.
 

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by sfan5 » Mon Feb 17, 2014 18:48

DeepGaze wrote:earlier i saw a signature with 15 spoilers in a row. that was spam.

That was PilzAdam's signature.

Now for my contribution to the discussion:
Code: Select all
<sfan5> spoilers can be used to hide away screenshots
<sfan5> I wanted it for that usecase and it works fine
<sfan5> but if someone decides to misuse them it isn't the right way to remove then
<sfan5> if that would apply to the real world kitchen knives, baseball bats and nails would be forbidden
<PilzAdam> https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=130173#p130173
<PilzAdam> hiding content from users is never good
<sfan5> I wanted spoilers to be used for hiding away a big pile of screenshots/crafting receipe one would not prefer to have in their face
<sfan5> just putting 1 screenshot/crafting receipe behind a spoiler is misusing for me too
<PilzAdam> read the IRC log in the linked topic
<sfan5> I did
<PilzAdam> there could be some table of contents, and you could move all the examples / screenshots / whatever at the end
<sfan5> like I already said it's not good to remove functionality because someone misuses it
<sfan5> that's like removing pickaxes because griefers use them
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by Novacain » Mon Feb 17, 2014 18:51

twoelk wrote:I have only just started to use the spoiler tag, because I began to see it's usefulness and allready people want to do away with it. :-(

I was irritated when it was introduced to this forum as I saw no need for a "spoiler" tag as in sites that let you decide to see information that might spoil the fun of some activity. I have since seen interesting uses of it on this forum and come to the conclusion that it is indeed a very usefull formating tool. Of course it is easily abused just like CAPS or colored fonts -
but of course if the tag is only allowed to be used for the one and only one purpose it indicates in it's name it might hurt the eye of the purist - but then I guess most other posts do so too.

I think like many other features it can be a very powerfull and usefull tool to make posts more readable and would rather keep it just like all those other easily abused tools.


+1

The way I see it, formatting a post can be useful. it can turn a huge post for a mod/server into a series of drop down menus that allow you to see screenshots, the license, crafts, banned players, extremely long mods list, etc. It allows for a much more organized experience. it's like using quotes, AND, OR and other functions in a search engine. It allows you to narrow the results to try and find what you are looking for.
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by DeepGaze » Mon Feb 17, 2014 18:59

sfan5 wrote:
DeepGaze wrote:earlier i saw a signature with 15 spoilers in a row. that was spam.

That was PilzAdam's signature.--snip

if so why is he writing this topic?
hypocrisy seems strong here
and if he was doing that to prove a point:
You can do the same thing with quotes :
[spoiler=example]
[/spoiler]
using a spoiler stopped the post being too long and i could illustrate the point, please stop this nonsensical argument.
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by PilzAdam » Mon Feb 17, 2014 19:25

LionsDen wrote:I like them putting screenshots in there as the forum page loads a lot faster when there are a lot of images. This way, I can ignore the images that came in earlier posts and get to the new posts quickly. Sometimes pages with a lot of images will literally take minutes to load, this speeds that process up a lot. Anyway, it seems to load a lot faster.

I have used spoiler tags improperly. I have used them to hide the previous messages info so that I can reply, this way if anyone cares to see the message I was replying to they can click and see otherwise they never see it. I also put a name like previous message so that shows instead of spoiler.

The page does not load faster. The images are still loaded; it doesnt matter if they are in a spoiler or not.
 

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by DeepGaze » Mon Feb 17, 2014 19:31

any answer about the signature and the hypocrisy, and the blatant stupidity in engaging this argument.
Last edited by DeepGaze on Mon Feb 17, 2014 19:32, edited 1 time in total.
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by Calinou » Mon Feb 17, 2014 20:13

Spoilers can be useful: in case of abuse, moderators can edit them out.
 

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by hoodedice » Mon Feb 17, 2014 20:34

DeepGaze wrote:any answer about the signature and the hypocrisy, and the blatant stupidity in engaging this argument.



The current inference I can gather from this argument is that the only person who is being a complete douchebag here is you. Do not attack any individual over a petty matter. That is just plain stupid, and can get you banned. If you cannot act suitably, and troll wantedly, we cannot help it.
Last edited by hoodedice on Mon Feb 17, 2014 20:36, edited 1 time in total.
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by Jordach » Mon Feb 17, 2014 20:37

Locked to stop trolling, insults and the like.

(Not that I do care about any of this; this IS likely to go out of hand.)
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