Minetest - Education Version

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Re: Minetest - Education Version

by rubenwardy » Thu Jan 05, 2017 21:54

Have you definitely set static_spawnpoint correctly?

If you type /set static_spawnpoint in game, what does it say?
 

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Re: Minetest - Education Version

by TheReaperKing » Fri Jan 06, 2017 00:30

Just FYI I am working on a educational version of Minetest for my students that I plan on releasing soon. I'd be very interested in ideas for things to change/add to it as well. So far I have survival and "HouseAndCityBuilder" modes and I might add a destruction.

Also, nice work on constructing your school :)
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Re: Minetest - Education Version

by Alcyone » Fri Jan 06, 2017 09:34

Hi christoferlevich !

You're probably right, most of the people are not interested in Minetest for an Education purpose but I think we should take care of it.

I sadly can't help you with your problems but I can tell you that there is a bug/problem part on this forum, post there and you surely will have a quick answer. You can also reach the IRC canal of Minetest, I always got help there knowing that not everyone check the forum regularly.

I already really appreciate to read all the forum post about Minetest for education, please keep it updated :) it will become a good source of inspiration and maybe create a network of teachers involved.

You're probably not the only one involved in your town. In my local hackerspace, there are 4/5 people playing Minetest and already 1 using it in an education purpose. We are thinking to create and Educational server through Mesecons, Pipeworks and Technic mods. You may find some other people not so far though :)
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Re: Minetest - Education Version

by hajo » Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:17

TheReaperKing wrote:Just FYI I am working on a educational version of Minetest for my students

What is the difference between a regular and an educational version of Minetest ?

I mean, beyond some admin-commands for world-control / herding students,
a simple one-button-startmenu (plus a tiny setup-button for the regular main-menu),
and maybe disabling potentially dangerous stuff, like lava, tnt etc. ?
Last edited by hajo on Fri Jan 06, 2017 14:39, edited 2 times in total.
 

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Re: Minetest - Education Version

by BirgitLachner » Fri Jan 06, 2017 13:32

I read with interessest all you ideas and informations. I'm a teacher from germany and started a page at the wiki for german teachers with informations about Minetest, how to use it and improve the possibilites with Mods and Mini-Games. And how to install a server on your own http://wiki.minetest.net/Minetest_in_der_Schule

Specially for younger children some features that are well known from MinecraftEDU should be added, like freeze, teleport all to at once and so on.
If you put such a mod with some usefull Mods together in a Minigame it would be at first the most simple possibility. But of cause the best would be, if you should not install a Mod/Minigame on you own but just need to install it and start it without the need of choosing Mods that are needed.
 

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Re: Minetest - Education Version

by christoferlevich » Sat Jan 07, 2017 14:05

rubenwardy wrote:Have you definitely set static_spawnpoint correctly?

Image
rubenwardy wrote:If you type /set static_spawnpoint in game, what does it say?

Image

I'm guessing I've created a conflict of some sort?
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Re: Minetest - Education Version

by christoferlevich » Sat Jan 07, 2017 15:09

hajo wrote:
TheReaperKing wrote:Just FYI I am working on a educational version of Minetest for my students

What is the difference between a regular and an educational version of Minetest ?

I mean, beyond some admin-commands for world-control / herding students,
a simple one-button-startmenu (plus a tiny setup-button for the regular main-menu),
and maybe disabling potentially dangerous stuff, like lava, tnt etc. ?


Its a good question... for us - well - for me... I have created an environment that kids can take off in that school administrators can embrace.

For instance, the building of the school replica drew the interest of school administrator while immediately giving the students a place of familiarity and comfort. I can testify that the more accurate the better. This was our first week live and the kids checked it out top to bottom. I even had a student find one of two access points to the roof (which exist in real life), and find a soda vending machine I hid there, expecting kids to find it weeks from now.

In the school's real world playground, I created a small market place and filled it with ways for them to buy and sell things they mine, cut, and craft. This is huge for us because many of our students struggle identifying and using money. I modified the currency mod to use 'US currency (including coins) and have forced the students to use exact change through the shops which means they have to craft it. For example, a student might find a shop selling a wooden door for 50 cents, but the shop wants it paid in five dimes, not fifty pennies, of ten nickels, or two quarters, but five dimes. If the child has the cash but not in dime form, they go to the crafting grid and craft dimes from pennies, nickels, quarters, dollars, etc. using recipes that are shapeless.

The school administrators see children learning about the various denominations of cash, teachers see children using math skills to craft money, and kids LOVE using 'real' money to buy in-game items.

I've also implemented Google classrooms, and aligned the student account logins with their minetest logins as the students have not been able to remember these credentials consistently. As any game player knows, if you have to log in to play your favorite game, you will memorize it. Already this week, I've seen dramatic improvements in student's getting logged in on their own. With google classrooms they have to log in twice a session.

They need to go to google classrooms because it is there that I offer cash reward activities, such as report writing on local areas of interest highlighted within the minetest world we are building, or scavenger hunting using skills like clock reading and riddle solving while roaming the existing areas of development. The cash rewards give students not interested in mining and crafting a whole new way to manage their minetest lives.

I removed swords (makes school admins happy) but players can still get hurt and harm each other meaing they still have to learn personal responsibility. I left the sword recipes and just allowed them to create healing devices (Minecraft players were surprised and somewhat delighted with the change).

For me - the key is to get them working together, incorporating educational goals, and soon, introduce modding to them. They will be creating skins, and textures, and more if all goes as planned.

Setting up a one button start would be great - but thats beyond me at the moment... maybe next week? LOL
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Re: Minetest - Education Version

by Tmanyo » Sun Jan 08, 2017 03:02

christoferlevich wrote:So though it seems this forum is slow, I will post here anyway. I understand a Minetest Education Edition isn't all that exciting for hardcore players, but let me tell you, we are starting to really get the kids in our town excited about Minetest.

Over the last three days we have been testing the program (which I've been calling Minetest Education in an effort to shield the program from accusations of being just a game) with classes of 14 students at a time. It has quickly become a huge hit in our first elementary school and I am in the process of working up a version for our second elementary school.

I am running into some issues that I am working on but if anyone can assist on this one it would be highly appreciated.

Even though I have set the coordinates for the default spawn to bring the students to a specific spot players are continually spawning over a lake. On the plus side, every student now knows how to swim in MT with a keyboard (they all want touch screen or controller)... on the bad side, its a nice little hike to get to the starting point of what we are doing. It was almost too funny seeing students grades 1-4 just falling from the sky into a lake - lol. So I guess if anyone knows why this happens - it's something I would like to repair. :)


How are you setting the spawn? In the minetest.conf or with another mod?

EDIT-
Eh, I thought that was the last post on the second page so disregard this.
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Re: Minetest - Education Version

by Tmanyo » Sun Jan 08, 2017 03:07

christoferlevich wrote:
rubenwardy wrote:Have you definitely set static_spawnpoint correctly?

Image
rubenwardy wrote:If you type /set static_spawnpoint in game, what does it say?

Image

I'm guessing I've created a conflict of some sort?

You used 2 "/" infront of set which is used for worldedit.
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Re: Minetest - Education Version

by rubenwardy » Sun Jan 08, 2017 11:35

Try rounding coordinates in static_spawnpoint? It may not support floating point
 

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Re: Minetest - Education Version

by christoferlevich » Sun Jan 08, 2017 15:03

rubenwardy wrote:Try rounding coordinates in static_spawnpoint? It may not support floating point


Thanks you Rubenwardy! BTW - The kids LOVE your AWARDS mod... I knew they would - it adds special surprises to the game!
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Re: Minetest - Education Version

by hajo » Sun Jan 08, 2017 16:28

christoferlevich wrote:
hajo wrote:What is the difference between a regular and an educational version of Minetest ?

environment .. kids .. school administrators
small market place .. to buy and sell things they mine, cut, and craft.
many of our students struggle identifying and using money.
currency mod .. students to use exact change .. to craft it.
Google classrooms .. student account logins
cash reward activities, such as report writing .. scavenger hunting ..
using skills like clock reading and riddle solving
introduce modding .. creating skins, and textures, and more

Thanks for those insights - I have almost no idea how to teach and motivate kids today,
and where the roadblocks might be.

BTW, how do you organize the spawn & home - locations,
where all users keep their stuff ?
 

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Re: Minetest - Education Version

by christoferlevich » Mon Jan 09, 2017 02:33

"BTW, how do you organize the spawn & home - locations,
where all users keep their stuff ?"

This last week they kept everything in the character inventory. To be honest, they were so excited I didn't even try to focus them. Some have begun building homes, but this week, I intend to begin planned projects, like building an apartment building or home community (their choice, but they have to work as a team), within zoned areas (much like a real town). I have four classes that will each have two teams and with luck we will have the beginnings of the neighborhoods by week's end.

I am hoping they will take advantage of locked chests and what not beyond that. I don't know how far we can push the program, but I hope to continue this as an on-going community over the years so that users will be able to visit years from now and still see what they made being used by new students...

As soon as I can get this school running more independently, I will be introducing at least two more schools to the 'server' and hope to have teacher's building their own 'teaching worlds' which will grant the kids more cash in their 'world'.
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Re: Minetest - Education Version

by hajo » Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:31

christoferlevich wrote:Some have begun building homes, but this week, I intend to begin planned projects,
like building an apartment building or home community

Nice - another project to build a village, or two !

Check out the rails & minecarts that are in the standard game now,
previously it had been a separate mod boost cart.

(Just in case flying and teleporting get too boring:)
Also, how to organize public transport...
 

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Re: Minetest - Education Version

by rgh » Mon Jan 09, 2017 20:47

TheReaperKing wrote:I'd be very interested in ideas for things to change/add to it as well.

One thing that makes deployment difficult in a school environment is the location of the 'user data directory', an issue I raised in this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15652
 

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Re: Minetest - Education Version

by BirgitLachner » Tue Jan 10, 2017 07:23

For the start, for Minetest/craftNewbies ... look at the Tutorial-World of Wuzzy viewtopic.php?t=10192

Could be integrated in the Education Edition!

Some usefull features to play with younger children will be possibilities to manage them:
- have a list of all the names of the logged in players
- mute/Unmute all player (can not talk/write)
- freeze/Unfreeze all player (can not move)
- teleport all players at once to me
- teleport one player to me by clicking on the name in the list (or a button in the line)
- teleport me to a player by clicking on the name in the list (or a button in the line)
- give special nodes to one/all player by choosing a block (search field) and click
 

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Re: Minetest - Education Version

by sofar » Tue Jan 10, 2017 07:47

christoferlevich wrote:Even though I have set the coordinates for the default spawn to bring the students to a specific spot players are continually spawning over a lake. On the plus side, every student now knows how to swim in MT with a keyboard (they all want touch screen or controller)... on the bad side, its a nice little hike to get to the starting point of what we are doing. It was almost too funny seeing students grades 1-4 just falling from the sky into a lake - lol. So I guess if anyone knows why this happens - it's something I would like to repair. :)


My advice would be to make a little portal point at the start where they spawn, and have them click an item.

The `warps` mod has such an item (teleport crystal), but there are other ways to do it as well.

https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=12005
 

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Re: Minetest - Education Version

by Wuzzy » Tue Jan 10, 2017 08:32

- mute/Unmute all player (can not talk/write)

  • /revoke <player> shout
  • /grant <player> shout
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Re: Minetest - Education Version

by BirgitLachner » Tue Jan 10, 2017 13:48

@wuzzy May be I start a new mod to have buttons to use these commands
 

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Re: Minetest - Education Version

by christoferlevich » Thu Jan 12, 2017 22:46

Just a note to share: Students are not always kind. We are building a courthouse for lawsuits due to theft of portions of properties. LOL. The victims demanded a ban for the theives and I suggested a law suit instead. Now I have to recruit the Principal to play the judge and figure out how tha'ts going to look. This is getting really interesting. I figure I'll have the Principal enter the game from his office, and rule within the game.

I know I can protect areas and allow players to do the same, but I haven't had the time and I haven't granted them the priv yet.
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Re: Minetest - Education Version

by sofar » Thu Jan 12, 2017 23:20

christoferlevich wrote:Just a note to share: Students are not always kind. We are building a courthouse for lawsuits due to theft of portions of properties. LOL. The victims demanded a ban for the theives and I suggested a law suit instead. Now I have to recruit the Principal to play the judge and figure out how tha'ts going to look. This is getting really interesting. I figure I'll have the Principal enter the game from his office, and rule within the game.

I know I can protect areas and allow players to do the same, but I haven't had the time and I haven't granted them the priv yet.


Theft isn't a civil thing but a criminal offense/proceeding, so it's not a lawsuit but a trial, technically.

Community service? Financial penalty? Removal of freedom (jail)?

Corporal punishment probably not a good idea, but this is something the students themselves should discuss and may offer a good lesson :).
 

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Re: Minetest - Education Version

by christoferlevich » Sat Jan 14, 2017 13:47

sofar wrote:
christoferlevich wrote:Just a note to share: Students are not always kind. We are building a courthouse for lawsuits due to theft of portions of properties. LOL. The victims demanded a ban for the theives and I suggested a law suit instead. Now I have to recruit the Principal to play the judge and figure out how that's going to look. This is getting really interesting. I figure I'll have the Principal enter the game from his office, and rule within the game.

I know I can protect areas and allow players to do the same, but I haven't had the time and I haven't granted them the priv yet.


Theft isn't a civil thing but a criminal offense/proceeding, so it's not a lawsuit but a trial, technically.

Community service? Financial penalty? Removal of freedom (jail)?

Corporal punishment probably not a good idea, but this is something the students themselves should discuss and may offer a good lesson :).


Technically you're correct, but we hadn't set laws at that point. Those are part of the new thing... the kids agreed to have a civil suit in the matter, and we've recruited one of the guidance counselors to play the role of an in-game judge. The students who were taking the blocks know there was no 'rule' about it but everyone knows they weren't being fair. It's really blossoming into a great little lesson for all involved, bringing in the possibility of allowing students more privileges in the game with the understanding that they will be held responsible in accordance to rules. For instance, they will be allowed to grant themselves protection rights if they follow a permit and licensing process with the 'town hall' (also run by students elected). Protections used without permit will be rendered invalid by the admin and penalties will be assessed against repeated offenders removing their ability to self-protect. They can still have protection from the admin, but they will have to apply to get it. Thus forcing the process and teaching them a reality of life without the real-life pain of penalty.

Of course, fines will play a role as well, but those are to be determined as students and staff discover different issues to address within their community.

We are going to allow them to own their own shops, but require them to apply for permits and report income to the Town Hall monthly as well. It increases the educational process without actually being a part of the minetest program. It allows a level of integration that will hopefully motivate students beyond their pixel pick-axes. :)

Its going to be really interesting as the next school comes on board in the Spring. Two communities with similar but different rules.
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Re: Minetest - Education Version

by christoferlevich » Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:11

New Idea? I want to add an new element to the all building blocks (nodes) based on their type (wood, stone, glass, etc) that tracks the age of the node for the purpose of degradation not unlike the little bar that we see when tools degrade after use.

The concept would fit my growing server in the school. When the students build with cheap pine vs. brick, for instance, I would like there to be more at stake than visual appearance. I would like to add a durability rating (hp?) of a the block based on groups would dictate their rate of decay.

This form of decay would force the students to maintain structures they build, like we have to do in real life! If a house is not maintained, it can actually be very dangerous after a few decades. This kind of property management can be very educational!

As it stands, my students have been building homes this week in class (grades 1-4). I have noticed that the students are drawn to the pretty bricks. The 1st and 2nd graders are building in single player worlds with creative on and I have a few that are experienced Minecraft players that are being blown away by what they are learning in Minetest. They are young but very curious and motivated. I smiled when a fourth grader asked me if there was a mess-eee shop in the market. I simply told him, not yet.
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Re: Minetest - Education Version

by hajo » Sun Jan 22, 2017 01:48

christoferlevich wrote:New Idea? .. track the age of node .. degradation .. durability rating .. rate of decay ..
force the students to maintain structures they build .. can be very educational!

Careful what you wish - they might learn something different than what you want to teach.

Depending on decay-speed/prices/time/effort, they might learn that maintaining stuff
is not worth the trouble, and instead decide to build fast & extra cheap,
and move on at the first sign of trouble...

Also, you might get elite-groups / griefers / etc.
 

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Re: Minetest - Education Version

by christoferlevich » Sun Jan 22, 2017 16:01

hajo wrote:
christoferlevich wrote:New Idea? .. track the age of node .. degradation .. durability rating .. rate of decay ..
force the students to maintain structures they build .. can be very educational!

Careful what you wish - they might learn something different than what you want to teach.

Depending on decay-speed/prices/time/effort, they might learn that maintaining stuff
is not worth the trouble, and instead decide to build fast & extra cheap,
and move on at the first sign of trouble...

Also, you might get elite-groups / griefers / etc.


Indeed, but even in that there is a lot they could learn within the constrains of a relatively safe cyber town. :)

Different scenarios featuring slower or faster decays could be incorporated to teach the two different strategies. One benefit I do have as the admin in a school is as of now, I only allow access in school during certain hours. Never-the-less, I am hoping they will know all the ins and outs of Minetest and go on to start developing their own mods! I share all sorts of information with them as we encounter errors, or add new mods. I expect they will be teaching me one day soon - lol.
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