MineToon

Iqualfragile
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by Iqualfragile » Wed May 08, 2013 10:30

Congratulations for your promotion, i think its a good idea moving minetoon to inkscape and svg.
as svg is an text-based format that made me think of an idea: wouldnt it be possible for you to put the svg-files into an repository, let others work on it and then merge back their changes? that would fix some problems as you would have less work because others do parts of it and people who are willing to test the unfinished texturepack are able to do so. allso you would allways get feedback on your newest changes.
after thinking and writing about it i actualy think that that would be quite a good idea…
the problems wich could arise would be inkscape not playing nicely with hg or git because it does too many changes to a file (wich might be hard to merge) and you would have to deal with people who change something not to your liking (those wouldnt get into the texturepack of course but you would have to tell them that it wont^^)
im investigating the first point now.
Gr8 b8, m8. I rel8, str8 appreci8, and congratul8. I r8 this b8 an 8/8. Plz no h8, I'm str8 ir8. Cr8 more, can't w8. We should convers8, I won't ber8, my number is 8888888, ask for N8. No calls l8 or out of st8. If on a d8, ask K8 to loc8. Even with a full pl8, I always have time to communic8 so don't hesit8.
 

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Melkor
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by Melkor » Wed May 08, 2013 11:55

Gambit wrote:Sorry for the long absent. I'm busier now with my job. Was promoted. But I am working on it still so don't worry. I've redid some renditions for the swords on my free time. I've also been messing with .lua a little more. Not sure if I truly improved much.

So to update you all, I've been exporting all the textures to Inkscape and redrawing them so they could be more flexable with resolution sizes. The past textures were mainly worked on Photoshop but they couldn't be modified easily. By moving them to Inkscape helps ease the project and further promote open-source. Now, I did use Inkscape in the past with Minetoon, but it was minimal and most of the textures were out dated. I started 2.0 with Photoshop, but now that I'm feeling like a boss with Inkscape, it would be more suitable using that more.

Another thing to let you all know, I've been putting together a personal wiki of Minetest that I made myself that's stored away in my Onenote Journals. Basicly I've been thinking of ideas to branch the game away from the ideas of Minecraft or Minetest. It's a lot more grounded I think, which is why I can't discuss much about it unless it's finish.

That's all I have for now. This is more of a haitus memo for everyone. My time has become restricted now that I have a promotion. I wish you all the best of luck and thank you all for being good sports and supporting the texture pack. I'm still shocked to see that it is still the most popular Minetest exclusive texture pack on the forum.

I wish I could stay longer, but there are deeds that need to be done. Don't worry, I'm still updating as the times goes. See ya in a while.


good to know, congratulations!
(ha, i always thought you were using vector graphics in your works)
 

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by Iqualfragile » Wed May 08, 2013 12:25

ok, about an hour of testing later (mainly because inkscape takes several secounds to start…) i have good news:
the following cases will just merge without any further manual interaction:
  • 2 people change different objects in any way
  • one person adds any number of objects to the drawing

the following case need manual interaction (nothing complictated, you just neet do explain that one addition belongs after the other (2 clicks)):
  • 2 people add any number of objects to the same layer

the following case will not work without manual work:
  • 2 people change the same object

that is because diff tools work line-based and in svg a single path is saved in one line (in theory that does not need to be the case but it is in inkscape) and that creates conflicts
Last edited by Iqualfragile on Wed May 08, 2013 12:25, edited 1 time in total.
Gr8 b8, m8. I rel8, str8 appreci8, and congratul8. I r8 this b8 an 8/8. Plz no h8, I'm str8 ir8. Cr8 more, can't w8. We should convers8, I won't ber8, my number is 8888888, ask for N8. No calls l8 or out of st8. If on a d8, ask K8 to loc8. Even with a full pl8, I always have time to communic8 so don't hesit8.
 

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by Gambit » Mon Jun 10, 2013 01:25

markbe wrote:I changed some of your tool names to match the new default texture names and re-colored some block designs for the new default tool-set so more of my world looked toon-ish. Here is the link to the ZIP if you want to have it (until the next release comes)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/i5nb9i6dctj1dxt/MineToonSupplement.zip

The only ones that are my own work are the Mese and diamond minerals (although I hate the diamond one!)

I have my own Mese crystal but it's a googled image that I don't have rights to include here ...


Thanks, but I wished no one to help me with MineToon in anyway. I know your heart is in the right place but MineToon is more of a personal project on mine and I can't take help for it. I also dislike the idea of other people trying to implemented their own work into MineToon as I don't want people to assume they're official.

It pains me to ask this but may I ask that you remove the link you provided? I hope it's no trouble to you.
Last edited by Gambit on Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:47, edited 1 time in total.
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MirceaKitsune
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by MirceaKitsune » Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:21

Gambit: First of all, glad to hear things are going well for you :) Also that you're still working on this project.

Since I'm not sure if you saw my question last time, I was going to ask again what you think about releasing them under a more "gentle" CC license (without the -ND) so other people could work on them too and make custom mods using them. But judging by your last post I take it you wouldn't be comfortable with that and don't have any plans to. Still, can you post an official answer just to know without doubt if you ever might?
 

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by Gambit » Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:36

MirceaKitsune wrote:Gambit: First of all, glad to hear things are going well for you :) Also that you're still working on this project.

Since I'm not sure if you saw my question last time, I was going to ask again what you think about releasing them under a more "gentle" CC license (without the -ND) so other people could work on them too and make custom mods using them. But judging by your last post I take it you wouldn't be comfortable with that and don't have any plans to. Still, can you post an official answer just to know without doubt if you ever might?


You’re right; I’ve not read your post about this subject. I guess it’s fair to answer your question at this point.

The reason I chose to have ND in the CC is that art is not the same as code. If I were to write a code for whatever reason, I would most likely license it openly for everyone interested to edit, modify, or take freely. There are usually guides on how to write the exact code, therefore there really is no individual touch to them. However, art is more personal. It’s not something another person can take credit for nor can another person fully duplicate from scratch. Art takes years for anyone person to get a full grip over, thus making certain art piece their own. Tapering with another person’s art piece is widely considered an insult in the art community. Even though you may praise the artist, by modifying their work, you’re unintentionally showing no respect to that artist.

Some here may argue, “Well I make textures packs and I don’t mind letting people modifying it.” Often times, an artist who would say that are mostly likely not passionate artist. Not that it’s bad; a person is free to let his/her art to be used and adjusted, just as a person is free to protect his/her own work which they spent hours to perfect in their own view.

But returning to the topic and to break away from the confusion of those who may not understand; the ND in CC does not forbid anyone from using the MineToon texture for mods, I in fact encourage it. It’s “modifying the textures” themselves that both I and the license forbid. Even if it’s only a tweak of the color, there should be no adjustments.

As for developers who are making custom mods and wish to tweak MineToon for it, they shouldn’t have to. Your job is to make the mod, not worry about the texture. I usually cater to mods that make sense to me and me alone, thus I make that pack to show my appreciations to the developer. However for the most part, I don’t seek mods to make textures for as doing so feels dictated. I prefer to just go freely without a rule of thought of other people yearns and opinions. I choose not to rename certain texture to composite a mod I knowing nothing about. Whatever object or item I have in mind, I make.

Also a final note as to why I don’t allow modification to MineToon… often times, people do a very poor job and not seem to care that it looks bad. I tend to be a perfectionist, if something is clearly off by a mile, there is no way I can approve it.

I know I may sound like a stickler, but these are my ways of feeling free. I don’t expect everyone here to understand my position, but it’s where I stand and feel more comfortable there. So no, I can’t bring myself to release MineToon without “ND.” It’s to insure to everyone using MineToon to know it’s all authentic.
Last edited by Gambit on Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:41, edited 1 time in total.
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VanessaE
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by VanessaE » Mon Jun 10, 2013 15:34

The problem with the -ND in that case is that you *can't* use these textures in a mod, as mod textures generally need to be in the 16 to 32px range, while yours are 250px (when I last looked - btw it is advisable that you make your next release an even 256px). -ND disallows derivatives, and I'm pretty sure that scaling an image qualifies as that.
You might like some of my stuff: Plantlife ~ More Trees ~ Home Decor ~ Pipeworks ~ HDX Textures (16-512px)
 

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MirceaKitsune
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by MirceaKitsune » Mon Jun 10, 2013 18:14

Gambit wrote:You’re right; I’ve not read your post about this subject. I guess it’s fair to answer your question at this point.

The reason I chose to have ND in the CC is that art is not the same as code. If I were to write a code for whatever reason, I would most likely license it openly for everyone interested to edit, modify, or take freely. There are usually guides on how to write the exact code, therefore there really is no individual touch to them. However, art is more personal. It’s not something another person can take credit for nor can another person fully duplicate from scratch. Art takes years for anyone person to get a full grip over, thus making certain art piece their own. Tapering with another person’s art piece is widely considered an insult in the art community. Even though you may praise the artist, by modifying their work, you’re unintentionally showing no respect to that artist.

Some here may argue, “Well I make textures packs and I don’t mind letting people modifying it.” Often times, an artist who would say that are mostly likely not passionate artist. Not that it’s bad; a person is free to let his/her art to be used and adjusted, just as a person is free to protect his/her own work which they spent hours to perfect in their own view.

But returning to the topic and to break away from the confusion of those who may not understand; the ND in CC does not forbid anyone from using the MineToon texture for mods, I in fact encourage it. It’s “modifying the textures” themselves that both I and the license forbid. Even if it’s only a tweak of the color, there should be no adjustments.

As for developers who are making custom mods and wish to tweak MineToon for it, they shouldn’t have to. Your job is to make the mod, not worry about the texture. I usually cater to mods that make sense to me and me alone, thus I make that pack to show my appreciations to the developer. However for the most part, I don’t seek mods to make textures for as doing so feels dictated. I prefer to just go freely without a rule of thought of other people yearns and opinions. I choose not to rename certain texture to composite a mod I knowing nothing about. Whatever object or item I have in mind, I make.

Also a final note as to why I don’t allow modification to MineToon… often times, people do a very poor job and not seem to care that it looks bad. I tend to be a perfectionist, if something is clearly off by a mile, there is no way I can approve it.

I know I may sound like a stickler, but these are my ways of feeling free. I don’t expect everyone here to understand my position, but it’s where I stand and feel more comfortable there. So no, I can’t bring myself to release MineToon without “ND.” It’s to insure to everyone using MineToon to know it’s all authentic.


That's a good and full explanation of it, thanks. It is true I don't understand and share all your views there, such as how modifying art could feel like an insult to the artist (if done with his permissions). I also tend to see art and code somewhat the same, especially when it's art for a 2D / 3D engine since both the art and code work together to achieve a given purpose. Paradoxally, I often feel the other way around: I feel my work isn't appreciated enough if people don't share and use it, sometimes even modify it :) But that's just my vision... your point is correct and interesting too.

I'm also used to a "create what you can and give it to others, use what you can't from others" vision (with permission in the second case). That's because I sometimes try to create complex projects, which include domains in which I can't do anything (eg: I can do the code but not the 3D model and texture). So I go to websites like opengameart.org and take models and textures from there, to use with the code I'm making.

Note that the mod I mentioned isn't meant to be a mod for minetest_game. I've since long planned to make a fully original game and idea on the minetest engine, with completely other textures / items / ideas / etc. On the graphical part, I am aiming for something slightly close to the Minetoon style (something cartoony with few colors but high-res). Hopefully when I get around to it, I'll know how to use programs like Inkskape better so I can make my own styles and ideas. Do hope it's ok if they end up similar to Minetoon in that sense, when / if I get to that.
 

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markbe
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by markbe » Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:56

Gambit wrote:
markbe wrote:I changed some of your tool names to match the new default texture names and re-colored some block designs for the new default tool-set so more of my world looked toon-ish. Here is the link to the ZIP if you want to have it (until the next release comes)

The only ones that are my own work are the Mese and diamond minerals (although I hate the diamond one!)

I have my own Mese crystal but it's a googled image that I don't have rights to include here ...


Thanks, but I wished no one to help me with MineToon in anyway. I know your heart is in the right place but MineToon is more of a personal project on mine and I can't take help for it. I also dislike the idea of other people trying to implemented their own work into MineToon as I don't want people to assume they're official.

It pains me to ask this but may I ask that you remove the link you provided? I hope it's no trouble to you.


Sure ... I in no way meant to appear official and I appreciate that you want to work on this yourself.

I love the textures you have done in this pack and am looking forward to downloading version 2 when your new job position allows time for completion
 

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by MaxCZ » Sun Jun 16, 2013 18:37

super Texture Pack :-D
wazuclan.com by MaxCZ
 

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Gambit
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by Gambit » Fri Jun 28, 2013 23:51

VanessaE wrote:The problem with the -ND in that case is that you *can't* use these textures in a mod, as mod textures generally need to be in the 16 to 32px range, while yours are 250px (when I last looked - btw it is advisable that you make your next release an even 256px). -ND disallows derivatives, and I'm pretty sure that scaling an image qualifies as that.


-ND doesn't mean it cannot be used for mods, it means the image cannot be modified. The format of of the image doesn't matter as long as the pixel in the images are not modified.

The 250 px was a fluke when I first started because I thought it was 256 until I finished the majority of them. By then it didn't seem like a big deal up until now since Minetest is growing in advance. I am fixing them in inkscape so they can be export in multiple sizes (excluding 16, 32 etc (too small)).

And yes, -ND does disallows derivatives because I choose to do the work myself. It's to keep MineToon authentic.
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mindbuster
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by mindbuster » Mon Jul 01, 2013 14:17

where is the download?
 

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LionsDen
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by LionsDen » Mon Jul 01, 2013 19:04

mindbuster wrote:where is the download?


Look in the first post.
 

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by mindbuster » Mon Jul 01, 2013 19:47

LionsDen wrote:
mindbuster wrote:where is the download?


Look in the first post.


i know but it doesn't work
 

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by LionsDen » Mon Jul 01, 2013 23:39

mindbuster wrote:i know but it doesn't work


Hmmm, I just tried it and was informed it was a deleted file. It worked for me when I downloaded it last month. If you want, PM me with your email address and reminding me what I'm sending and I will email you the same file I downloaded. I have the version 0.4 though. If you want the other one, I don't have it.
 

2232
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by 2232 » Mon Jul 22, 2013 18:07

0.4 Can't download; says it has been removed... :(
-2232
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2232
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by 2232 » Mon Jul 22, 2013 18:25

I'm having a hard time with 0.4.7 too. Nothing helps! The video and celeron instructions failed to help me.
-2232
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LionsDen
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by LionsDen » Mon Jul 22, 2013 18:37

2232 wrote:0.4 Can't download; says it has been removed... :(


Looks like the time limit for the file ran out or the original poster deleted it from their account.
 

Elinvention
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by Elinvention » Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:41

We can't download! Please re-upload version 0.4.
Italian Minetester
 

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LionsDen
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by LionsDen » Tue Jul 23, 2013 16:43

Here is a link, I uploaded it to mediafire because this isn't the first time someone has asked for it. I am not the original uploader so you can't ask me for changes or anything. Enjoy.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/1pj68v81oy9tat1/MineToon_0.4.zip
 

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Gambit
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by Gambit » Fri Jul 26, 2013 20:54

Sorry for the dead link. It's most likely it was expired. I wasn't around to notice anything until now. Thanks LionDen for the spare link, I leave that up on the 1st page.
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Chinchow
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by Chinchow » Fri Jul 26, 2013 21:18

I am in no way requesting you add support for Blockman's Hud mod but just thought you should know that his mods health bar has a background which would allow your avatar heart to be possible if you drew a similar background. I'm saying this because I remember you explaining that you couldn't use that heart texture
Last edited by Chinchow on Fri Jul 26, 2013 21:19, edited 1 time in total.
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Gambit
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by Gambit » Fri Jul 26, 2013 22:20

Chinchow wrote:I am in no way requesting you add support for Blockman's Hud mod but just thought you should know that his mods health bar has a background which would allow your avatar heart to be possible if you drew a similar background. I'm saying this because I remember you explaining that you couldn't use that heart texture


I have a look see. Link!
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Chinchow
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by Chinchow » Fri Jul 26, 2013 22:53

Last edited by Chinchow on Fri Jul 26, 2013 22:54, edited 1 time in total.
Sometimes, it's harder to think up a mod than it is to create it.
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