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Re: Minetest Tutorial Book - Creating Better Documentation

PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 20:05
by rubenwardy
Hi all, I have created the formspec chapter. I am not completely happy with the phrasing. Is there anything you think it is missing?

Re: Minetest Tutorial Book - Creating Better Documentation

PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 20:27
by Don
rubenwardy wrote:Hi all, I have created the formspec chapter. I am not completely happy with the phrasing. Is there anything you think it is missing?

You made me a happy man. I might actually learn something!!!!! Thanks

Re: Modding Tutorial Book - Creating Better Documentation

PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 21:18
by philipbenr
The problem I saw with markdown, is there are so may different ways. HTML/CSS is pretty normal. Also, I didn't know you could add HTML/CSS to markdown.

Re: Modding Tutorial Book - Creating Better Documentation

PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 21:36
by Evergreen
philipbenr wrote:The problem I saw with markdown, is there are so may different ways. HTML/CSS is pretty normal. Also, I didn't know you could add HTML/CSS to markdown.

philipbenr, you obviously don't know what markdown is. Markdwon is translated to html, which can then be styled by css. Jekyll (what rubenwardy's sight uses) can automatically convert the markdown files to html. Besides, HTML is unreadable in a normal text editor.

EDIT:
Read this for a better description: http://daringfireball.net/projects/markdown/

Re: Modding Tutorial Book - Creating Better Documentation

PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 23:15
by Don
I don't mean this to be rude but maybe start a new topic to debate the best code. This is a thread about the book. Let's discuss the content of the book. I think Rubenwardy could use help.

Re: Modding Tutorial Book - Creating Better Documentation

PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 03:53
by leeminer
Don wrote:I don't mean this to be rude but maybe start a new topic to debate the best code. This is a thread about the book. Let's discuss the content of the book. I think Rubenwardy could use help.



I've been reviewing the doc and giving feedback. Always helps to have others look at it from another angle.

I think Rubenwardy is looking for translators eventually. Sadly my Spanish and French is dismal :(

Re: Modding Tutorial Book - Creating Better Documentation

PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 20:18
by rubenwardy
Added a ( (very) short) chapter on ABMs. I will probably write a chapter on node drawtypes next. That's probably the next important thing. I'm also going to draw up a long list of what should be in there, and logically organise it for the best teaching experience.

I don't need it to be translated yet, it is currently quite unstable (it changes a lot).

Re: Modding Tutorial Book - Creating Better Documentation

PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 21:37
by Don
An explanation of why you need to do things would be nice. For example in your formspec chapter you have

minetest.show_formspec(playername, formname, formspec)

If you could explain it like this;

you need minetest because it tells the engine where to get the info
show_formspec tells engine to show the formspec that you specify below
playername is need for...
etc

This is one of the things that confused me at first. I am not sure if the info above is correct or not. As someone who does not know programming and just wants to make mods this type of info is important. I don't think you would have to do it for everything but if you explain some of it then with a little logic the rest could be figured out.

Re: Modding Tutorial Book - Creating Better Documentation

PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 21:38
by Don
Another idea might be itemstack and how it works.

EDIT - forgot to say that you are doing a great job! Thanks

Re: Modding Tutorial Book - Creating Better Documentation

PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 21:45
by Don
Another idea is what different symbols do
Examples

== means is equal too
~= means is not equal too
-- means a comment and is not read by the engine. It is for 1 line only
--[[ ]] means a block comment for more than 1 line

Re: Modding Tutorial Book - Creating Better Documentation

PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 22:15
by rubenwardy
I don't want to do a programming tutorial, that is beyond the scope of the book. I will search for a nice tutorial on Lua. Short.

Hoodedice is creating a getting started chapter which will be a much easier entry point.

Re: Modding Tutorial Book - Creating Better Documentation

PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 22:18
by philipbenr
@Don: That is something I might get into. The tutorials want to do will include videos as well.

Re: Modding Tutorial Book - Creating Better Documentation

PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 22:29
by Don
@ rubenwardy - I am throwing ideas out there simply because I am trying to learn and these are things that I got stuck on. Thought it might help to get the perspecive of someone that wants to learn how to mod.

@ philipbenr - That it awesome. Videos will be a big help too.

Re: Modding Tutorial Book - Creating Better Documentation

PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 07:57
by rubenwardy
the Minetest namespace, ie minetest.*, will be explained in the first chapter, and itemstacks is a planned chapter. I didn't intend to sound like I was rejecting your ideas.

As for videos, they take a lot of effort to get to the same quality, although they are better at communicating harder things that would need a huge and confusing list in a tutorial if done right. Good luck.

Re: Modding Tutorial Book - Creating Better Documentation

PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 13:35
by Don
rubenwardy wrote:the Minetest namespace, ie minetest.*, will be explained in the first chapter, and itemstacks is a planned chapter. I didn't intend to sound like I was rejecting your ideas.

As for videos, they take a lot of effort to get to the same quality, although they are better at communicating harder things that would need a huge and confusing list in a tutorial if done right. Good luck.

I took no offence. I was just letting you know why I was giving ideas. As someone who knows almost nothing about programing I know some of my ideas will be rejected or considered dumb.
Keep up the good work

Re: Modding Tutorial Book - Creating Better Documentation

PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 15:08
by leeminer
Don wrote:
rubenwardy wrote:the Minetest namespace, ie minetest.*, will be explained in the first chapter, and itemstacks is a planned chapter. I didn't intend to sound like I was rejecting your ideas.

As for videos, they take a lot of effort to get to the same quality, although they are better at communicating harder things that would need a huge and confusing list in a tutorial if done right. Good luck.

I took no offence. I was just letting you know why I was giving ideas. As someone who knows almost nothing about programing I know some of my ideas will be rejected or considered dumb.
Keep up the good work



Find a good tutorial for OOP programming. I think it would benefit you. One I liked was How to think like a computer scientist.

http://www.greenteapress.com/thinkpython/

It would be very difficult to understand modding without this sort of knowledge. For LUA, not sure what the best resource is. I've only scratched the surface on Lua. Perhaps someone could point us both in a good direction for that.

Anyway on with the ON TOPIC discussion ;)

Re: Modding Tutorial Book - Creating Better Documentation

PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 15:43
by Don
Thanks. After 5 minutes reading I have already learned a few things. I love the open source community. In a world of greed, open source proves that humanity still exists.

Re: Modding Tutorial Book - Creating Better Documentation

PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 14:15
by Gael de Sailly
Is it possible to make a feature to change the language ?
I could translate it into French.

I really like the project. I've already thought about writing a tuto in French.
I think it's really what we lack : a good documentation in others languages than English.

Re: Modding Tutorial Book - Creating Better Documentation

PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 15:52
by rubenwardy
Do you mean computer langauges? You could use a language interpreter written in Lua. Or you can add a new langauge to the core code. But the forner is slow and the latter won't be merged into Minetest, the core devs won't like it. You could use a language like moon script, I think it is called, to translate into Lua.

Or do you mean tutorial language? That's fairly easy, but requires restructuring of files.

Re: Modding Tutorial Book - Creating Better Documentation

PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 19:52
by Evergreen
rubenwardy wrote:Do you mean computer langauges? You could use a language interpreter written in Lua. Or you can add a new langauge to the core code. But the forner is slow and the latter won't be merged into Minetest, the core devs won't like it. You could use a language like moon script, I think it is called, to translate into Lua.

Or do you mean tutorial language? That's fairly easy, but requires restructuring of files.

Rubenwardy, he means translate to another real world language (eg. French)

Re: Modding Tutorial Book - Creating Better Documentation

PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 19:53
by rubenwardy
Okay. So the latter. I won't accept any translations at the moment, as the chapters are too volatile - they will probably be edited for quite a while before they reach a fixed state.

Re: Modding Tutorial Book - Creating Better Documentation

PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 20:08
by Gael de Sailly
I could also contribute to the project, especially about mapgen.

There are the 4 basics chapters, I think we can add more specialized chapters on more complex features (entities, mapgen, treegen, metadata, schematics, …).
I will have a lot of free time the next 2 weeks.

Re: Modding Tutorial Book - Creating Better Documentation

PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 01:52
by grey
This would be so amazing.

Re: Modding Tutorial Book - Creating Better Documentation

PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 20:16
by rubenwardy
No more linking to line numbers with the risk of them changing.

lua_api.html

Re: Modding Tutorial Book - Creating Better Documentation

PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 13:13
by leeminer
Wow, there is a lot of content here now! Everybody look at this so far.