Post your mapgen questions here (modding or engine)

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T6C
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Re: Post your mapgen questions here (modding or engine)

by T6C » Post

Does Minetest need to load the entire map file into RAM, or just the parts it's using at any given time? A world 62000³ nodes seems like an extreme example. I don't know how big the multiplayer server worlds grow, but my personal single-player ones have never exceeded about 2 GB, and Minetest seems to handle that OK, even on my under-powered machine. Also, I might be interpreting your maths wrong, since 433 TB for a world of 62000³ nodes is only about 2 B/node.

In my hypothetical example above, I'm imagining a world of maybe 10k x 10k x 5k. I'd shrink down the "biomes," and slightly exaggerate the terrain of the real world, so something interesting would fit into the relatively tiny Minetest world. I'm thinking the average radius of a biome would be roughly 2000–3000 nodes, instead of the 200–300 km (or more) in the real world.

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Re: Post your mapgen questions here (modding or engine)

by Elektrika » Post

Has anyone made a mapgen that generates realistic terrain in the generation engine? I don't want to have to use a generation editor like realterrain.
eh

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Re: Post your mapgen questions here (modding or engine)

by Steamed_Punk » Post

I am running minetest on an old an old aspire laptop that has been wiped clean of Windows and now booting Linux Mint 20 and with my own very large texture pack without a problem. This is all down to the fact that Minetest does not load the entire map. It loads and displays (and removes) chunks (probably a MC term) as you move around. I don't know how many chunks, distance wise at any given time but it is not the entire map.
Unless I have got this all wrong and need correcting myself.
T6C wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 20:57
Does Minetest need to load the entire map file into RAM, or just the parts it's using at any given time? A world 62000³ nodes seems like an extreme example. I don't know how big the multiplayer server worlds grow, but my personal single-player ones have never exceeded about 2 GB, and Minetest seems to handle that OK, even on my under-powered machine. Also, I might be interpreting your maths wrong, since 433 TB for a world of 62000³ nodes is only about 2 B/node.

In my hypothetical example above, I'm imagining a world of maybe 10k x 10k x 5k. I'd shrink down the "biomes," and slightly exaggerate the terrain of the real world, so something interesting would fit into the relatively tiny Minetest world. I'm thinking the average radius of a biome would be roughly 2000–3000 nodes, instead of the 200–300 km (or more) in the real world.
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Re: Post your mapgen questions here (modding or engine)

by ShadMOrdre » Post

See my reply here regarding realism.

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Vertical blend smoothing

by afflatus » Post

Is it possible to tune the vertical blend? I'm finding it looks messy. What I want is for the contours between biomes to go up and down a bit, with occasional bleed to the other side. The random spatter just makes my coastlines and mountains look messy. It's better than the biome changing all on the same y value, but I'd really like a smoother transition.
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Re: Post your mapgen questions here (modding or engine)

by paramat » Post

AiTechEye,
> im trying to add a biome with deep oceans, atleast -50, can i do that through register_biome or only register_on_generated?

if you want to make oceans deeper, you can only do that by altering the mapgen's parameters and noise parameters. Terrain shape (and therefore seabed depth) is independent of biomes. Biomes do not affect terrain shape.

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Re: Post your mapgen questions here (modding or engine)

by paramat » Post

afflatus,
> Is it possible to tune the vertical blend? I'm finding it looks messy. What I want is for the contours between biomes to go up and down a bit, with occasional bleed to the other side.

Not possible, apart from specifying the vertical size of the blend.
A smooth undulation and occasional blobs, just like horizontal blend, would be nice, but would require an additional 2D noise. I admit it does look a little messy, but i personally like it.
When i coded the vertical blend, i first tried to re-use the horizontal blend noises for vertical blend, but that actually did not work.
I eventually decided to use a PRNG for simplicity and performance.

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Re: Post your mapgen questions here (modding or engine)

by afflatus » Post

paramat wrote:
Tue Nov 03, 2020 13:42
Not possible, apart from specifying the vertical size of the blend.
I guessed as much. Thanks.
It would require an additional 2D noise; personally I think it would be worth it. Does it really impact that much on performance?
The horizontal blend is such a thing of beauty and I feel my coastlines and mountain vegetation lines don't match up.
One of the effects I'd like to achieve is to have the coastlines modulate between sand, gravel and rocks, which can be done by defining shore level biomes (e.g. y=-2 to y=2), but the results are somewhat random.
I will learn to live with it.
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Re: Post your mapgen questions here (modding or engine)

by paramat » Post

Another 2D noise is not a significant performance impact.

I think part of the reason i chose PRNG is because it creates a 'patchy' blend between biomes, whereas a 2D noise would create a hard unblended border that undulates, both have nice characteristics.

it is possible to tune the PRNG in a PR to reduce the small detail, see how it was earlier when it had less fine detail https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/7329
Perhaps there is too much fine detail now.

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Re: Post your mapgen questions here (modding or engine)

by Elektrika » Post

I am about to make a mod that adds over 150 biomes to Minetest, but I noticed that every single biome in default has a regular, an ocean, a beach, and an underground. The regular biome is understandable, and I doubt the underground biome type is needed, but I don't want to make an ocean and a beach for every single biome. The only way around this that I can see is to create a beach biome that has a range of humidity and a range of temperature. How do I do something like this? And how do I create biomes that have vertical noise, such as basins that go below sea level and mountainous biomes? Also, what is the maximum amount of biomes supported in Minetest 5.2.0?
eh

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Re: Post your mapgen questions here (modding or engine)

by afflatus » Post

Elektrika wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 16:06
I am about to make a mod that adds over 150 biomes to Minetest, but I noticed that every single biome in default has a regular, an ocean, a beach, and an underground. The regular biome is understandable, and I doubt the underground biome type is needed, but I don't want to make an ocean and a beach for every single biome. The only way around this that I can see is to create a beach biome that has a range of humidity and a range of temperature. How do I do something like this? And how do I create biomes that have vertical noise, such as basins that go below sea level and mountainous biomes? Also, what is the maximum amount of biomes supported in Minetest 5.2.0?
It's somewhere around 2^16 isn't it?
You don't have to organise your biomes the way MTG does it. If you like the way your map looks, that's fine. The divisions in MTG reflect real-world biomes. All you have to do is decide which part of the heat / humidity / height cube each biome occupies, bearing in mind the average water-level, which is y=0 by default.
If you want a general beach biome you might define it like this:

Code: Select all

minetest.register_biome({
		name = "sandy_shore",
		node_top = "element:sand",
		depth_top = 1,
		node_filler = "element:sand",
		depth_filler = 2,
		node_riverbed = "element:sand",
		depth_riverbed = 2,
		vertical_blend = 2,
		y_min = -5,
		y_max = 2,
		heat_point = 50,
		humidity_point = 50,
	})
And just make sure that you don't have any other biomes competing for voronoi space at that altitude. The vertical noise is defined by 'vertical_blend'.
150 is far too many biomes already, but defining underground ones is a good idea. People mine deep in this game.
Wait, Why are you using 5.2?
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Re: Post your mapgen questions here (modding or engine)

by Elektrika » Post

afflatus wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 16:43
Elektrika wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 16:06
I am about to make a mod that adds over 150 biomes to Minetest, but I noticed that every single biome in default has a regular, an ocean, a beach, and an underground. The regular biome is understandable, and I doubt the underground biome type is needed, but I don't want to make an ocean and a beach for every single biome. The only way around this that I can see is to create a beach biome that has a range of humidity and a range of temperature. How do I do something like this? And how do I create biomes that have vertical noise, such as basins that go below sea level and mountainous biomes? Also, what is the maximum amount of biomes supported in Minetest 5.2.0?
It's somewhere around 2^16 isn't it?
You don't have to organise your biomes the way MTG does it. If you like the way your map looks, that's fine. The divisions in MTG reflect real-world biomes. All you have to do is decide which part of the heat / humidity / height cube each biome occupies, bearing in mind the average water-level, which is y=0 by default.
If you want a general beach biome you might define it like this:

Code: Select all

minetest.register_biome({
		name = "sandy_shore",
		node_top = "element:sand",
		depth_top = 1,
		node_filler = "element:sand",
		depth_filler = 2,
		node_riverbed = "element:sand",
		depth_riverbed = 2,
		vertical_blend = 2,
		y_min = -5,
		y_max = 2,
		heat_point = 50,
		humidity_point = 50,
	})
And just make sure that you don't have any other biomes competing for voronoi space at that altitude. The vertical noise is defined by 'vertical_blend'.
150 is far too many biomes already, but defining underground ones is a good idea. People mine deep in this game.
Wait, Why are you using 5.2?
I use 5.2 because 3d_armor does not work right in 5.3 when also using instant_ores
eh

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Re: Post your mapgen questions here (modding or engine)

by rubenwardy » Post

Fixer wrote:
Sun Oct 09, 2016 23:52
I would like to see some kind of FAQ topic about at least v7 mapgen, about basic stuff with basic questions, like:
+ how to shift terrain down/up? (changing water level)
+ how to stretch terrain horizontally/vertically?
+ how to make single biome world?
+ how to make biomes bigger/smaller?
+ how to shift general climate to colder/hotter?
+ how to shift humidity to arid/humid?
+ how to make ocean world?
+ how to make desert world?
+ how to turn off caves/rivers/hills
+ how to make hills bigger and oceans deeper?
+ how to make big hills with low slopes?
+ how to make slightly hilly world?
Just bumping this, as it would definitely be very useful to compile a how-to on
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Re: Post your mapgen questions here (modding or engine)

by Extex » Post

Is there a way to make decorations run a voxelmanip?
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Re: Post your mapgen questions here (modding or engine)

by ShadMOrdre » Post

Decorations cannot.

However, you can in fact use registered decorations, ores and biomes from voxelmanip.

To use decos and ores, use the following functions:

Code: Select all

			minetest.generate_ores(vm,minp,maxp)
			minetest.generate_decorations(vm,minp,maxp)	
Biomes can be used also, but you have to get the related heat / humid values from the singlenode noises, or custom noises.

Hope this helps.


Shad

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Re: Post your mapgen questions here (modding or engine)

by sirrobzeroone » Post

Im trying to forceset mg_flag for dungeons to always be nodungeon for a game.

I dont want to set this up in minetest.conf but i tried this in game.conf it did't seem to work when I pulled "mg_flags", it was still dungeons. I have successfully disallowed mgv6/singlenode there so hoped that might work

Code: Select all

mg_flags = caves,nodungeons,light,decorations,biomes,ores
I tried at a code level using minetest.set_mapgen_setting() but I dont think Im understanding how to use that. I tried a lot of combos but the below example is what I settled on which i think should be right?
ref : viewtopic.php?p=259178#p259178
This sits inside my mapgen component ie before biome/dec/ore settings.

Code: Select all

local mg_name = minetest.get_mapgen_setting("mg_flags")

-- grabbing "," ensures no risk of matching the dungeon part
-- of nodungeons and ending up with nonodungeons
mg_name = string.gsub(mg_name, ", dungeons,",", nodungeons,")
minetest.debug(dump(mg_name))  -- dump to confirm change
minetest.set_mapgen_setting("mg_flags",mg_name,true)

-- check confirming nil change
local mg_name2 = minetest.get_mapgen_setting("mg_flags")
minetest.debug(dump(mg_name2))
example output

Code: Select all

2021-06-08 08:29:44: [Main]: "caves, nodungeons, light, decorations, biomes, ores"  << dump mg_name
2021-06-08 08:29:44: [Main]: "caves, dungeons, light, decorations, biomes, ores"      << dump mg_name2
I did note in Paramats reply that override_meta is in [] however i've tried including and not including those using them results in a crash so Im not sure what the notation syntax means?

I did physically check a map as well and the dungeons definitly still appearing.

As always much appreciate the help

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Re: Post your mapgen questions here (modding or engine)

by TumeniNodes » Post

Are you setting nodungeons "before" you create the world?
Dumb question? Yes, but ya nevah know.
If not, try doing that and then explore to see if there are still dungeons
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Re: Post your mapgen questions here (modding or engine)

by sirrobzeroone » Post

TumeniNodes wrote:
Tue Jun 08, 2021 00:58
Are you setting nodungeons "before" you create the world?
Dumb question? Yes, but ya nevah know.
If not, try doing that and then explore to see if there are still dungeons
Not a dumb question at all :) - by before do you mean at the main menu when you click "new" and end up with "world10" um no....how do you do that? I wasn't aware a game could run any code that early in the load process.

I've been running the above code or trying to right before I register biomes, decorations and ores after the player clicks the play button.

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Re: Post your mapgen questions here (modding or engine)

by TumeniNodes » Post

Though I've not updated in a bit, I think the menu is the same now?
When you click on "new", to the right are the flags for mapgen, simply un-tick dungeons (this will result in an empty box/no check mark), then create new world.
That should be all you need to do, and then just use the resulting configs.

Or, you can manually just replace dungeons with nodungeons in the desired mapgen's (mg_flags) settings.

There are actually 3 places this can be done:
in the main menu before you create a new world.
in the All Settings Tab, got to mapgen and scroll down to mapgen_flags.
or by hand in the code.
Either way, it needs to be done before creating the world, or you will get undesirable artifacts.

Once this is done, any player who joins the world should be subject to the flags set for this world, so there really shouldn't be a need to implement any other code.
Unless I am not understanding your goal
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Re: Post your mapgen questions here (modding or engine)

by sirrobzeroone » Post

TumeniNodes wrote:
Tue Jun 08, 2021 17:15
in the All Settings Tab, got to mapgen and scroll down to mapgen_flags.
or by hand in the code.
Thanks TumeniNodes, I probably should mention this is for a game not for me personally. Im trying to force set "nodungeons" when a player may have ticked dungeons on.

The above looks promising I thought my code block would sort of do that but no luck, by hand in the code im guessing you mean in the overarching minetest.conf? I tried in game.conf but its either not supported or i did something wrong.

Appreciate the help as gives me more ideas of were to try looking. :)

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Re: Post your mapgen questions here (modding or engine)

by superfloh » Post

Naive newbi question: is it a good or bad (how bad?) idea to change
mgv7_spflags = mountains, ridges, nofloatlands, caverns
to
mgv7_spflags = mountains, ridges, floatlands, caverns
for an existing large map?
No player changes higher than approx 100 blocks so far.

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Re: Post your mapgen questions here (modding or engine)

by DrFrankenstone » Post

With a biome defined from -5000 to -11000, the entire chunk below the biome ends up with the biome's node_stone appearing at underhangs.

The relevant chunk spans 10992 to 11072, so the node_stone appears down to 11072 even though the biome was defined with a y_min of -11000 (and with vertical_blend = 0).

This can be seen in the nether mod, and can be hidden by using a biome y_min of -11072 instead (i.e. align the biome boundary to the chunk boundary), but I'd like to first understand whether it's an engine bug or blend feature or an oversight in my understanding of biomes.

(Ignore the fact that the node_stone appears as "unknown" in the screenshot, that's unrelated and doesn't affect the issue)
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Re: Post your mapgen questions here (modding or engine)

by Jackknife » Post

How can the size of each world be changed to 100 nodes up and 100 down when creating a new world?
The file size goes from hardly anything to over a gigabyte when I do a lot of exploring and building.

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Re: Post your mapgen questions here (modding or engine)

by T6C » Post

Jackknife wrote:
Fri Aug 13, 2021 22:54
How can the size of each world be changed to 100 nodes up and 100 down when creating a new world?
I don't think there's a way to constrain map generation in only one dimension (vertical or y in your case). However, you can limit map generation of all three dimensions using the mapgen_limit setting in your world's .conf file.

That said, the mapgen will create new map blocks if they fall within your max_block_generate_distance in the world's .conf file. I have mine set to 6. Since a map block is 16 nodes, then on a freshly created map, if I look straight down at the ground, the mapgen will only generate to y = [present location] – 96 (±8, depending on where your map's block borders are).

I have all my worlds set to mapgen_limit = 31000. I've never had a world's map file grow beyond about 2 GB, but my server has only two people playing on it.

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Re: Post your mapgen questions here (modding or engine)

by Sudonik » Post

Hi, guys. I've been trying to generate a v7 world with everything scaled up 4x on the X and Z axis. Vertical defaults are fine. I've been browsing this thread but I'm still having some trouble with it.

I've tried changing the spread variables from, for example, (1000,1000,1000) to (4000,1000,4000), on each humidity/heat function and on "mgv7_np_terrain_base", "mgv7_np_terrain_alt" and "mgv7_np_terrain_persist". I managed to somehow make the world generate stretched out on the X axis, but not the Z axis. I've been editing both the in-game mapgen v7 noises and the world's map_meta.txt file (I'm not sure which takes priority). Here is my map_meta config:

Code: Select all

mg_biome_np_humidity_blend = {
	flags = defaults
	lacunarity = 2
	persistence = 1
	seed = 90003
	spread = (32,8,32)
	scale = 1.5
	octaves = 2
	offset = 0
}
mg_biome_np_heat_blend = {
	flags = defaults
	lacunarity = 2
	persistence = 1
	seed = 13
	spread = (32,8,32)
	scale = 1.5
	octaves = 2
	offset = 0
}
mg_flags = caves, nodungeons, light, decorations, biomes, ores
chunksize = 5
mapgen_limit = 31000
mg_biome_np_heat = {
	flags = defaults
	lacunarity = 2
	persistence = 0.5
	seed = 5349
	spread = (4000,1000,4000)
	scale = 50
	octaves = 3
	offset = 50
}
water_level = 1
mg_biome_np_humidity = {
	flags = defaults
	lacunarity = 2
	persistence = 0.5
	seed = 842
	spread = (4000,1000,4000)
	scale = 50
	octaves = 3
	offset = 50
}
seed = 68954012663
mg_name = v7
mgv7_np_cave1 = {
	flags = defaults
	lacunarity = 2
	persistence = 0.5
	seed = 52534
	spread = (61,61,61)
	scale = 12
	octaves = 3
	offset = 0
	}
mgv7_np_dungeons = {
	flags = defaults
	lacunarity = 2
	persistence = 0.8
	seed = 0
	spread = (500,500,500)
	scale = 0.5
	octaves = 2
	offset = 0.9
	}
mgv7_np_cave2 = {
	flags = defaults
	lacunarity = 2
	persistence = 0.5
	seed = 10325
	spread = (67,67,67)
	scale = 12
	octaves = 3
	offset = 0
	}
mgv7_np_cavern = {
	flags = defaults
	lacunarity = 2
	persistence = 0.63
	seed = 723
	spread = (384,128,384)
	scale = 1
	octaves = 5
	offset = 0
	}
mgv7_np_floatland = {
	flags = defaults
	lacunarity = 1.618
	persistence = 0.75
	seed = 1009
	spread = (384,96,384)
	scale = 0.7
	octaves = 4
	offset = 0
	}
mgv7_np_mountain = {
	flags = defaults
	lacunarity = 2
	persistence = 0.63
	seed = 5333
	spread = (250,350,250)
	scale = 1
	octaves = 5
	offset = -0.6
	}
mgv7_np_ridge_uwater = {
	flags = defaults
	lacunarity = 2
	persistence = 0.6
	seed = 85039
	spread = (1000,1000,1000)
	scale = 1
	octaves = 5
	offset = 0
	}
mgv7_np_mount_height = {
	flags = defaults
	lacunarity = 2
	persistence = 0.6
	seed = 72449
	spread = (1000,1000,1000)
	scale = 112
	octaves = 3
	offset = 256
	}
mgv7_np_height_select = {
	flags = defaults
	lacunarity = 2
	persistence = 0.7
	seed = 4213
	spread = (500,500,500)
	scale = 16
	octaves = 6
	offset = -8
	}
mgv7_np_terrain_alt = {
	flags = defaults
	lacunarity = 2
	persistence = 0.6
	seed = 5934
	spread = (2400,600,2400)
	scale = 25
	octaves = 5
	offset = 4
	}
mgv7_small_cave_num_max = 0
mgv7_large_cave_num_max = 2
mgv7_floatland_ywater = -31000
mgv7_np_filler_depth = {
	flags = defaults
	lacunarity = 2
	persistence = 0.7
	seed = 261
	spread = (150,150,150)
	scale = 1.2
	octaves = 3
	offset = 0
	}
mgv7_spflags = mountains, ridges, floatlands, caverns
mgv7_np_terrain_base = {
	flags = defaults
	lacunarity = 2
	persistence = 0.6
	seed = 82341
	spread = (4000,600,4000)
	scale = 70
	octaves = 5
	offset = 4
	}
mgv7_cavern_limit = -256
mgv7_floatland_ymin = 4096
mgv7_large_cave_depth = -33
mgv7_np_terrain_persist = {
	flags = defaults
	lacunarity = 2
	persistence = 0.6
	seed = 539
	spread = (8000,2000,8000)
	scale = 0.1
	octaves = 3
	offset = 0.6
	}
mgv7_large_cave_num_min = 0
mgv7_dungeon_ymax = 31000
mgv7_floatland_taper = 256
mgv7_float_taper_exp = 2
mgv7_floatland_ymax = 8192
mgv7_large_cave_flooded = 0.5
mgv7_floatland_density = -0.6
mgv7_cave_width = 0.09
mgv7_np_ridge = {
	flags = defaults
	lacunarity = 2
	persistence = 0.75
	seed = 6467
	spread = (100,100,100)
	scale = 1
	octaves = 4
	offset = 0
	}
mgv7_small_cave_num_min = 0
mgv7_cavern_threshold = 0.7
mgv7_mount_zero_level = 0
mgv7_cavern_taper = 256
mgv7_dungeon_ymin = -31000
[end_of_params]
Put simply, I'm trying to make the world generate 4:1, both for landmasses and oceans and for biomes, like this:
Image
What is the best way to achieve this?

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