Elements Mod

pups
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Elements Mod

by pups » Post

I encountered Elements module on the "Tunnelers' Abyss" server about one year ago.
It is very promising module. I want to discuss this module here.

Feel you free to write questions in this topic, or your play experience, recipes, tricks, if you dealt with this module on the mentioned server too.

The module is not open source, as i understood. Also i do not know exactly who is author(s) of this module. Game rules of this module are secret. It is sad fact, of course, but that is choice of server owners.

For beginning i just want to tell basic information and few examples about rules and machines of the module.
Machines are based on well known Technic module electric nets.

Following information is true as of May, 2021.

Material Reducer.
HV Material Reducer has demand 10 000 EU (without batteries in the slots).
It is the main machine, because by this machine player can obtain elements from objects in the game world. The elements mean Mendeleev's Table base.
Creating map of elements is a huge and interesting part of the game.
You have to take any objects, put into this machine and write elements result into notebook.
Plants are pretty promising objects.
For example, you can obtain Fe element from brown mushrooms.
Ore lumps contain not only its name material.
For example, Iron lump contains few Ni element. Tin lump contain few Ti element. So sometimes you should use Material Reducer instead of Grinder after ore mining.
Also you can try to reduce into elements any common solid blocks, of course.
For example, dirt block contains Al element. Granite cobble contains Al element too. You can find Fe in the Emutite cobble, and Ni in the Phonolite cobble.
Such modules as "Underground Challenge", containing very many different cobbles and ores, help to expanse elements map to huge sizes.

Atomic Constructor.
HV Atomic Constructor has demand 3 000 EU (without batteries in the slots).
This machine creates objects from elements.
For example, twenty Al elements will become one Aluminium ingot. Or you can obtain Methane, very good fuel for your Digtron, by using some H and C elements.
Atomic Constructor has significant automation defect. It is very difficult to fit automation for Atomic Constructor by common pipeworks tools, because inlet recipe slots overflow. Although, Digiline Injector sometimes can help to fit more or less automation.

Isotope Separator.
HV Isotope Separator has demand 20 000 EU (without batteries in the slots).
This machine detects isotopes of elements. You load plain elements and obtain elements with Mass Number mark. One plain element type can be often separated into several different isotopes.
You should read Wikipedia articles about Mendeleev's Table and Nuclear Physics, if you can not understand information above.

Decay Accelerator.
HV Decay Accelerator has demand 30 000 EU (without batteries in the slots).
This machine converts one elements into others. It does not have exactly rules of elements conversion. You have to create map of conversions.
It requires isotopes for work. You can not use plain elements. Also you can see by practice that this machine can convert only radioactive elements.
The main usage of Decay Accelerator is to obtain nuclear fuel for RTG (Elements mod unique machine) and Classic Reactor (Technic mod well known machine), and also obtaining He-4 isotope.

Example of utilization:
U-238 -> Pu-238 + He-3
Any Pu isotope poses ready RTG fuel. Also you can load forty Pu isotopes into Atomic Constructor and obtain one fuel Rod for Classic Reactor.

The full chain of U-238 decay is:
U-238 -> Pu-238 (RTG fuel) (He-3) -> U-234 (He-4) -> Th-230 (RTG fuel) (He-3) ->
-> Ra-226 (He-3) -> Rn-222 (He-3) -> Pb-210 -> Po-210 (RTG fuel) -> Pb-206.
So you can obtain several RTG fuels in the example above: Pu, Th, Po.

The table of energy for RTG fuels is:
Thorium = 30 minutes
Americium = 50 minutes
Neptunium = 2 hours
Plutonium = 5 hours
Polonium = 7,5 hours
Any isotope of element has the same energy value.

RTG machine is Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generator. It generates supply 20 000 EU for your HV electric net. It is very compact generator. It is suitable for supply Quarry machines (Technic mod well known machine) deep under ground.

One more example of utilization:
Pu-238 -> U-234 + He-4
Here you can obtain He-4 isotope.

You should load waste U isotopes into Atomic Constructor to obtain uranium dust. Every 20 elements will become dust. Then you should load uranium dust into Material Reducer to obtain plain U elements again.

Obtaining of Uranium elements.
You can find uranium ore from -80 to -300 elevation in the game world. But Corium is the best source of Uranium.
First, you need to build and start Classic Reactor. Then you have to damage working reactor to perform emergency stop (just break one block of reactor shell). After this event the reactor core will become Corium. You should take Corium by common bucket.
Second, you have to build some system to obtain Chernobylite from Corium. When Corium flows, it randomly turns into Chernobylite blocks.
Third, you need system for obtaining U elements from Chernobylite blocks. You can use chernobylite dust and Centrifuges or directly Material Reducers.

Particle Accelerator.
HV Particle Accelerator has demand 100 000 EU (without batteries in the slots).
This machine converts one elements into others by He-4 bombardment. Unlike Decay Accelerator, this machine can work with non-radioactive isotopes.
The main usage of Particle Accelerator is to obtain expensive and rare elements as Ti, Zr, Ge, Te, In and many others for tools and machines crafting.
The main rule of Particle Accelerator work is:
Particle Accelerator increases Atomic Number (Z) by one, and Mass Number (A) by three.
In the short form is: Z+1 and A+3.
So you can exactly know what isotope to use as source in order to obtain your target isotope. And you do not need to compile conversion map.
You should read Wikipedia articles about Mendeleev's Table and Nuclear Physics, if you can not understand information above.

For example, assume you need to craft Hybrid Solar Panel (Elements mod unique machine, it can work even at night time, generating 50% of its day time electric duty).
This solar panel requires Ga and In elements for crafting.
Let us look at Mendeleev's Table.
Ga is our target element, it has Atomic Number Z=31. Hence, to find out source element, you have to perform Z-1=31-1=30. So Atomic Number of source element is 30, just look at the element on the left of Ga. It is Zn element.
Obtain Zn elements from zinc ore lumps, zinc ingots or some plants by Material Reducer. Then use Isotope Separator. Then put Zn isotopes into the first inlet slot of Particle Accelerator, and He-4 into the second slot.
Particle Accelerator will begin work and you see Ga isotopes in the outlet slots.
Also you can see "0" and "1" digits in the outlet slots. They mean that He-4 has missed the mark. You can see by practice that misses equal 60%. Hence if you use 100 Zn isotopes and 100 He-4, you will obtain only about 40 Ga isotopes.
Here is practice formula for Ga obtaining:
Zn-64 + He-4 -> Ga-67

Further, you need In element.
Let us look at Mendeleev's Table again.
You can see Cd element on the left of In element. But Cd is rare element, most probably you do not have any Cd.
Hence, let us look at more left element. It is Ag, silver. It is not rare element in the game.
Obtain Ag elements from silver ore lumps, silver ingots or some plants by Material Reducer. Then use Isotope Separator. And then use Particle Accelerator. But you need to perform two steps by Particle Accelerator.
Here is practice two step formula for In obtaining:
Ag-109 + He-4 -> Cd-112
Cd-112 + He-4 -> In-115

After obtaining Ga and In isotopes, you should use Atomic Constructor to obtain ingots, suitable for crafting. Every 20 elements will become ingot.
Last edited by pups on Fri Jul 23, 2021 00:54, edited 3 times in total.

thevbw
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Re: Elements Mod

by thevbw » Post

very good
cdb_c7ca0803b2e7

CalebJ
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Re: Elements Mod

by CalebJ » Post

mega strange

Josselin2
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Re: Elements Mod

by Josselin2 » Post

CalebJ, do you have any idea who wrote the elements mod?

CalebJ
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Re: Elements Mod

by CalebJ » Post

I just can't put my finger on it!

DOOM_possum
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Re: Elements Mod

by DOOM_possum » Post

whoever wrote It, did a Fine Job, Then, it's like a page taking You to another Time, Of Prosperity

thevbw
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Re: Elements Mod

by thevbw » Post

if you say too much the TAzi will order you to be shot with a luger
cdb_c7ca0803b2e7

pups
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Re: Elements Mod

by pups » Post

if you say too much the TAzi will order you to be shot with a luger
Haha:) It is funny:)
But, people, let us write grave messages, please. I meant this topic as storage of tips, tricks, rules about Elements module. That is why, please, write useful information here. Because the rules are being changed always. So, most probably, my information in the first message of the topic is pretty old yet.

SteveGer
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Re: Elements Mod

by SteveGer » Post

Hey Pups

The elements mod is a part of the secretZ mod. Do you know why they are called secretZ?
No?
Because they should be secret, so every user have to find out how chemical processes are working. Just crying it out will not unite to the sense of the module itself

Respect the Wish of Mod Creator and keep it secret!

This is a unique Module, not downloadable. it is specified writing for the Server Tunnelers Abyss and you can find it only there.

1P

pups
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Re: Elements Mod

by pups » Post

to SteveGer
If you want Elements module to be secret, you should keep the module in the big armoured safe.
But when you run module on the public server, you have to respect players and tell them at least basic rules of the module work.
I am tired of your eternal only rule "secretz". Moreover, these secret rules are changed occasionally.
That is why i have published my own knowledge about the module. And i call other players to publish their own experience about the module.
You are saying "respect mod creator". Then i am saying "respect players", please.

SteveGer
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Re: Elements Mod

by SteveGer » Post

Hey Pups

You are not respecting the wish of the Creator by publishing secret Information. do you really believe, if you not respecting others, others will respect you ? Think about it.

1P

pups
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Re: Elements Mod

by pups » Post

to SteveGer
I thought about it a lot.
1. I played honestly on the server. I spent huge amount of time to guess rules of the module work, build energy plants, design factories to produce elements. Then "mod creator" has changed the module work rules. In particular, He-4 obtaining process. And all my huge labour in the game became a waste.
I do not want other players to be catched in the same trap!
That is why i consider that the game rules of the Elements module must have a public manual.
2. Some "mod creator" does not respect my labour in the game. So why do i have to respect "mod creator" any wish?
3. Let us separate your module and players' game experience. Your secret module is your own. My knowledge is my own. I have shared my own knowledge in this topic.

SteveGer
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Re: Elements Mod

by SteveGer » Post

Hey Pups

The Reason why some things are changed on the elements is, because it should be secret! and some ppls share its knowledge official. You for sure can make your own database (maybe an excel document or a dynamic Webside) but don't make it public or it will changed again!

I had to change my Laboratory to, because elements are changed, because some ppls are sharing information about it.

That's Why i told you, respect the wish of the Author of the mod (and that's not me) like i do respect his wish and keep it secret.

1P
Last edited by SteveGer on Sat Jul 24, 2021 16:33, edited 1 time in total.

Mineminer
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Re: Elements Mod

by Mineminer » Post

SteveGer wrote:
Sat Jul 24, 2021 16:22
Hey Pups

The Reason why some things are changed on the elements is, because it should be secret! and some ppls share its knowledge official. You for sure can make your own database (maybe an excel document or a dynamic Webside) but don't make it public or it will changed again!

That's Why i told you, respect the wish of the Author of the mod (and that's not me) like i do respect his wish and keep it secret.

1P


You seriously need to quit it.

They are not violating IPs or anything that warrants a DMCA take down or anything.

They are allowed to share their knows about the mod, whether or not the mod author wants it or not.

If they can't handle that, then they shouldn't be running a public server or to be granting ANY public servers the licenses to use it on them.

Josselin2
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Re: Elements Mod

by Josselin2 » Post

All multi-player servers have a balance problem. Players are clever, and they are always finding clever ways to gain an advantage. Therefore admins have to change the game frequently, otherwise the game becomes too easy (or too hard).

Whenever there is a change, players will get annoyed and frustrated. But change is natural; there is nothing you can do to stop it, so you should probably just accept it.

pups, perhaps no-one can stop you revealing secrets, but if you reveal too many, CalebJ will be forced to change the game again. So not only will your work have been a waste of time, but other players will be very annoyed. And if players are very annoyed, they probably won't share their secret knowledge with you. And then the game will be much harder for you.

That's my advice, use it or ignore it, it's up to you :)

pups
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Re: Elements Mod

by pups » Post

SteveGer wrote:
Sat Jul 24, 2021 16:22
Hey Pups

The Reason why some things are changed on the elements is, because it should be secret! and some ppls share its knowledge official. You for sure can make your own database (maybe an excel document or a dynamic Webside) but don't make it public or it will changed again!

I had to change my Laboratory to, because elements are changed, because some ppls are sharing information about it.

That's Why i told you, respect the wish of the Author of the mod (and that's not me) like i do respect his wish and keep it secret.

1P
to SteveGer
It will be changed again anyway. Like as it was changed before many times. For example, cocoa beans contents, He-4 production recipe. Whereby players' labour in the game will become a waste again.

I have my libreoffice calc file containing elements map. I spent a huge amount of time to compile this map. And i do not want to share it on the forum so far. I want to share basic principles, tips, tricks, examples of the Elements module work. And i want to get alike information from other players too. These are main purpose of this topic.

And do not tell me about respect, please. If the author had respected players, this topic would not have been created.

CalebJ
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Re: Elements Mod

by CalebJ » Post

Josselin2 wrote:
Sat Jul 24, 2021 17:26
All multi-player servers have a balance problem. Players are clever, and they are always finding clever ways to gain an advantage. Therefore admins have to change the game frequently, otherwise the game becomes too easy (or too hard).
Indeed - sadly, disregarding secret things at all, we have had to change recipes a handful of times, not just with elements, to try to prevent lag, or in other cases to try to restore balance in the game. The economy is extremely complex and we try our best to preserve and protect it as we fine-tune the server, fixing bugs, adding new features and changing old ones.

In an ideal world, each player would learn the elements, the pathways, the tricks, and would take the educational journey that the author of the mod prepared for them. People may share secrets at their wish, the server has no control over anything at the Minetest Forums and you won't be banned or anything in-game. Just note that this is a constantly changing server and the admins are extremely active, so we will take actions that we think are needed.

pups
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Re: Elements Mod

by pups » Post

Some years ago, when i started to play Minetest, first i read official documentation. I did not see text "all is secret" or something similar. By contrast, authors created for me, player, detailed manual. I clearly saw, that authors respect me. And i quickly understood rules, and i like Minetest for it.

Now, with this Elements module, i encounter significantly different approach. All is secret. Moreover, the secret will be exactly changed to other secret, and so on. Whereby, after some months of honest play, you can find, that all your experience, all your structures are just a waste now.

And how to play if you have secret rules which are occasionally changed to other secret rules?
The only answer is public knowledge. Players have to share own game experience.

I actually lost all my structures in the game, when author(s) of the Elements module changed some rules a couple months ago. Namely, production recipe of He-4 was changed.
And now i need to start actually from scratch guessing new secret rules, remodelling my structures. For weeks? For months? Awesome!

That is why, i thought and eventually chose to share my own knowledge. I hope that most players will agree with me and share their experience too. I can not return to the game, while i do not have detailed information about new secret rules.

Josselin2
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Re: Elements Mod

by Josselin2 » Post

pups wrote:
Sat Jul 24, 2021 19:57
Now, with this Elements module, i encounter significantly different approach. All is secret.
Good! There is nothing worse than identical servers. Who wants to play a game that is exactly the same as every other game?

pups
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Re: Elements Mod

by pups » Post

Elements module has experienced some changes.
Unfortunately, it is terribly.

Helium-4 isotope changes.
We do not have sufficiently He-4 now, because uranium decay chain in the Decay Accelerator emits He-3 only.
Why do we see He-3 always, while alpha-decay poses He-4 emission? It is mystery.
Why can not we obtain He-4 even on the last steps of uranium decay chain? I do not know.
Now in the game we have He-4 isotope as the rarest element, while in the real life He-4 is very common.
Why do we need just He-4 for the Particle Accelerator? Why not He-3? Or some other elements? I do not know.
Anyway for comfortable using of the Particle Accelerator we need thousands of He-4.
But now we have very few finite He-4 in the uranium ore lumps, as i understand.

Uranium element changes.
Moreover now we have finite U-elements too. Chernobylite can not be turned into elements anymore. And 0,7% uranium dust can not be turned into U-elements now. While 20 U-isotopes can be tuned into one 0,7% uranium dust. It is crazy rules.

Unfortunately, i suppose, the module became unusable.
I will try to play and wait new changes. But the hope of good news is tiny.

----------
Addition.
Digtron energy supply changes.
Also now we can use nuclear energy directly to power Digtron, alike we run "RTG Generator".
And this is ugly decision. I will explain this opinion.

If we want to supply our electric net with a nuclear energy, we have to craft complex "RTG Generator". This is expensive apparatus. It consists of "Fuel-Fired HV Generator" and two Germanium ingots. And "Fuel-Fired HV Generator" again consists of "Fuel-Fired LV Generator", two diamond blocks (18 diamonds amount), HV transformer.
While Digtron uses directly "Digtron Fuel Storage" to obtain nuclear energy from elements. "Digtron Fuel Storage", consisting of "Digtron Core" and primitive stone furnace, is significantly cheaper apparatus than "RTG Generator".

I think, we need some new expensive Nuclear Fuel Storage for Digtron.
Or, at least, some expensive object (chip, logical unit) to be put into any "Digtron Fuel Storage" slot to allow nuclear energy extracting from elements.

And now chemical fuel such as wood, oil from leaves, methane, ethanol will become senseless for production, because too cheap powerful nuclear fuel. Before, chemical fuel had market for Digtrons. Also you could supply Digtrons with electric energy (wire and crystal methods). Now nuclear fuel has destroyed any market for chemical one. That is why, it is very big mistake.

thevbw
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Re: Elements Mod

by thevbw » Post

example: if you found an easter egg or secret debug menu in some software, and you shared your findings online, then the software publisher came after you complaining about it :P
cdb_c7ca0803b2e7

thevbw
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Re: Elements Mod

by thevbw » Post

Outside of digtrons, nuclear power is now harder to achieve for everyone except the super rich. Another series of terrible decisions by TA administrators. I will start using biofuel.
cdb_c7ca0803b2e7

Mineminer
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Re: Elements Mod

by Mineminer » Post

thevbw wrote:
Sun Aug 22, 2021 15:14
Outside of digtrons, nuclear power is now harder to achieve for everyone except the super rich. Another series of terrible decisions by TA administrators. I will start using biofuel.


Nuclear energy even outside of TA is ridicous. The STOCK Technic reactor is crazy expensive yet only emits 10kEU/sec.

Let's not forget the meltdowns, maintenance, MV certifuges and so on...

In short Nuclear in Minetest is not intuitive like it is in a few mainstream Minecraft Mods.

pups
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Re: Elements Mod

by pups » Post

thevbw wrote:
Sun Aug 22, 2021 15:14
Outside of digtrons, nuclear power is now harder to achieve for everyone except the super rich. Another series of terrible decisions by TA administrators. I will start using biofuel.
I can not agree. Nuclear power is fairly cheap and easy with Elements.

If we talk about nuclear fuel.
Thorium can be obtained directly from mushrooms. Polonium can be obtained from Plumbum, and Plumbum again from mushrooms. It is easy way. It is not "super rich" player's way.
What about fuel rods? You do not need to build complex uranium dust enrichment factory with centrifuges in order to obtain 3,5% dust, you can just use Thorium for fuel rod crafting.
(But i consider, the enrichment factory is very interesting task in the game! And each advanced player must create such factory. I would remove the thorium recipe of the rods.)

If we talk about nuclear machines.
Players can build Classic Reactor without big problems, after a week of underground works with pick-axe in the hands. (It is Technic mod well known machine and we have good manuals in the internet.) Titanium ore is the main component for searching. You need to collect about 88 titanium ingots for one reactor (to craft 216 blocks of blast resistant concrete). Do not forget about Grinder, when you process ores. And about 9 stacks of lead ingots (to craft 96 blocks for lead shell), but it is very common ore.
RTG requires Germanium ingots. It is significant problem. But you can find Germanium as small part of some ores, reducing these ores with Material Reducer, or you can just buy RTG in some shops in the game.

And i can not understand, how will you use biofuel (is it ethanol) outside of Digtrons? By expensive HV Fuel-Fired Generator? It outputs only 1200 EU. For comparison, cheap Geothermal Cell outputs 800 EU.

pups
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Re: Elements Mod

by pups » Post

Mineminer wrote:
Sun Aug 22, 2021 15:44
Nuclear energy even outside of TA is ridicous. The STOCK Technic reactor is crazy expensive yet only emits 10kEU/sec.

Let's not forget the meltdowns, maintenance, MV certifuges and so on...

In short Nuclear in Minetest is not intuitive like it is in a few mainstream Minecraft Mods.
To stock Technic Reactor (Classic Reactor) is not expensive, because Corium method. You do not need to search uranium ore every time you want to fuel reactor. Uranium dust enrichment factory is not too complex, because using Digiline Injectors to push even numbers of the dust. Also you can directly use elements (instead of the dust) to craft fuel rods. Of course, TA is a difficult server, but often you can find smart solution for almost any task, just think and invent, and ask other players on the server for help or prompt.

And Technic Reactor emits 100k EU/sec, not 10k as you have written.
Meltdown is not problem, because this event can happen only, if player deliberately breaks reactor shell. Just do not dig working reactor and all will be right:)
The reactor does not require any maintenance. Except periodically fuel loading.
And let us not forget, that TA has unique RTG machine (Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generator) for nuclear power using as easy and compact (but less powerful) alternative for the Classic Reactor.

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