Ideal World Size?

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runs
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Ideal World Size?

by runs » Post

I want to set up a server and I wonder what would be the best world size?

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runs
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Re: Ideal World Size?

by runs » Post

Minecraft defines 4 world sizes:

- Classic : 864 × 864 blocks: 746,496 blocks
- Small : 1024 × 1024
- Medium : 3072 × 3072 blocks: 9,437,184 blocks
- Large : 5120 × 5120 blocks: 26,214,400 blocks

https://minecraft.fandom.com/wiki/World_size

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1faco
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Re: Ideal World Size?

by 1faco » Post

if it is a public server, it's a littel complicated i mean, you need to set a map with enough resources for all. i think:
<5 classic
<9 small
<15 medium
<30 large
30+ large+100 * each player.

a small map might not have enough resources for everyone, if that is the plan you can make it small and integrate a mod to "regenerate" the resources, repairable tools, or even, it would be a good opportunity to implement a system of economy. you can visit a server called minecity, they have a small world, it could be a inspiration for you and give you some idea about the size you need.

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Re: Ideal World Size?

by Krock » Post

Rumors say that 31 km into each direction is not enough
Look, I programmed a bug for you. >> Mod Search Engine << - Mods by Krock - DuckDuckGo mod search bang: !mtmod <keyword here>

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Re: Ideal World Size?

by Mineminer » Post

Krock wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 13:59
Rumors say that 31 km into each direction is not enough
I know right? I backup to quite a cheap storage and bandwidth place that I really don't mind how large the map.

The trick that @sfan5 shared with rsyncing (or similar) makes it more viable to do a hybird online and offlining backups for considerably larger maps where not even the MVNes might be able to tar.gz fast enough.

Currently though I don't need to worry since our map is not even at 3GB yet.

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runs
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Re: Ideal World Size?

by runs » Post

My idea is a public zone 1024x1024 with errand merchants to trade with. And Samantha goddess temple to adore her statue in order to restore health. The rest of the map would bé private, only for reputed players, with economy system. 30 players max. Dedícated ultra potent Linux server, extra bandwitch

I Don't Want My server Ruined by jerks. I hope that minetest players being educated, respecful and adult.

31 km what is the distance in blocks?

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Re: Ideal World Size?

by Mineminer » Post

runs wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 15:56
My idea is a public zone 1024x1024 with errand merchants to trade with. And Samantha goddess temple to adore her statue in order to restore health. The rest of the map would bé private, only for reputed players, with economy system. 30 players max. Dedícated ultra potent Linux server, extra bandwitch

I Don't Want My server Ruined by jerks. I hope that minetest players being educated, respecful and adult.

31 km what is the distance in blocks?
I wouldn't count on it, I would have mitigations in place just in case things does go sideways. Particularly I protect public facilities, logs then finally do a backup on the daily just to be safe. :)

Yes the 31km^3 figure is in actual nodes (not mapblocks). So the map is actually able to be as large as 31000x31000x31000 nodes.

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Re: Ideal World Size?

by ShadMOrdre » Post

Just wanted to clarify.

The map can be of size (-31000,-31000,-31000) to (31000,31000,31000).

Maps are 62km across. The 31000 number is measured from origin, at 0,0,0.

m = meter, km = kilometers.
1000m = 1km.
1.6km = 1 mile.
16km = 10 miles.
62km = 38.75 miles.
62x62=3844sqkm
62x62x62=238,328cubic kilometers.
3844sqkm = 1501.5625sqmi
238,328 cubic kilometers = 58,185.546875 cubic miles.

Not infinite, maybe not even "large". But spend time walking the same space in the real world, and you'll quickly gain an appreciation for the size. To walk 32km or 20 miles in a day takes effort. To cover 1501 square miles would require a vehicle.

This is roughly the size of Paris.

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Re: Ideal World Size?

by Linuxdirk » Post

runs wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 09:44
I want to set up a server and I wonder what would be the best world size?
The ideal size of a world is large enough so that a player cannot traverse it with the fastest available travel method (that is not teleporting) within a reasonable time.

Since that is not possible in Minetest, the normal world size is the best we can use.

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Re: Ideal World Size?

by runs » Post

Oh. I always thought that the Minetest map was bigger than Minecraft, but I see that it is not. Minecraft I think it has 64,000 kilometers, that is x2000 times bigger in the x and z dimensions.
It is true that it is much higher, but I would prefer less height and a little more length.

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runs
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Re: Ideal World Size?

by runs » Post

I saw in the web that in Minecraft you would reach the border walking 506 years!!!

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Re: Ideal World Size?

by runs » Post

Anyway I consider that the size of Minetest is reasonable, because why have a gigantic world of planetary size if you are not going to be able to use even 1% of it in a plausible way.

For a server, better that size because if not it becomes super difficult to manage. Imagine a player make a house in 0,0,0 and another in 1000000,1000000,1000000. No feasible.

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Re: Ideal World Size?

by Linuxdirk » Post

runs wrote:
Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:12
Oh. I always thought that the Minetest map was bigger than Minecraft, but I see that it is not. Minecraft I think it has 64,000 kilometers
But for Minetest it's not 64,000 kilometers but 64,000 meters, which is 64 kilometers. So from the center you can walk roughly 32,000 nodes till you reach the world border. By default you walk 4 nodes per second. So within roughly 2 hours you reach the world border when starting somewhere around 0,0,0.

The surface area is more ore less 64 square kilometers large. Which makes it just a little larger in area than the city of Fürth, Bavaria (63.35 square kilometers) and by powers of 10 smaller than most major cities in the world let alone being planet-size or larger than Minecraft. (I was stupid, sorry)

Distribution of players on a server is not an issue at all if you have central points and structures for players to meet at.
Last edited by Linuxdirk on Tue Aug 03, 2021 07:07, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Ideal World Size?

by ShadMOrdre » Post

Just pointing out that 64 sqkm is not 64km squared.

64sqkm is a square of size 8km x 8km.

62km squared is 3844sq km. This is the flat surface area of a Minetest world.

62000~ nodes X 62000~ nodes X 62000~ nodes.

Using some of the mods that make dimensions or layers, if one were to divide the vertical space of 62000 nodes by 16, with each layer occupied by one 3844sqkm area, this would equate to a surface area of 61504sqkm. And each layer would still be about 3800 meters in height.

I do believe that yes, Minetest worlds might still be "larger" than Minecraft worlds. Minecraft worlds on my xb360 just do not seem to be larger than Minetest worlds.

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Linuxdirk
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Re: Ideal World Size?

by Linuxdirk » Post

ShadMOrdre wrote:
Mon Aug 02, 2021 21:46
Just pointing out that 64 sqkm is not 64km squared.
How embarrassing ... You're right and I was stupid and tired :) Everything else still applies, though.
ShadMOrdre wrote:
Mon Aug 02, 2021 21:46
I do believe that yes, Minetest worlds might still be "larger" than Minecraft worlds.
I hope I get the numbers right this time, but Minetest worlds are 61839x61839 meters in area and are 61839 meters high, this results in 236,476,170,000,000 possible positions to place a node.

Minecraft worlds on the other hand are waaaaaaaaay larger.

The Bedrock version actually has a soft limit of 63,999,744*63,999,744 in area and 60,000,000 in height which results in 245,758,030,000,000,000,000,000 possible places to put a block to. (1,039,250,720 times larger than Minetest.)

Even the (on a technical level) outdated Java version is huge. Starting with JE 1.18 the soft limits are 59,999,968*59,999,968 in area and 384 in height, resulting in 1,382,398,500,000,000,000 possible places to put a block in. (Still 5,845 times larger than Minetest.)

So, no, Minetest worlds are under no means larger than even the smallest Minecraft world. Also: Don't forget that Minecraft has built-in support for actual dimensions (Nether, End). The implementation of dimensions in Minecraft is so solid that it was possible to add 2.1 billion dimensions as a April Fools' Day joke in a snapshot. It also has custom dimensions support. Dimensions are defined by JSON files.

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Re: Ideal World Size?

by debiankaios » Post

I set up Mapgen Limit in my game Proxima Survival to 31M. It is many but you must exert yourself that egnough player come which get this full.

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Re: Ideal World Size?

by twoelk » Post

in the end the time it takes to make backups of your world will put "technical limits" to the size that will be manageable by your individuall setup and this is where the mileage may vary between servers.
So the hardware at your disposal will rather be the limit.
If I remember correctly most size limited maps do that because they ran into issues while doing backups
maybe even more often so than from the map becoming less responsive due to size.

Just do keep in mind a map may become several gb large and you might need to move such files around maybe switching providers or such or providing external backups.

some worlds have vanished because after shutting down the server (nothing lasts for ever) the world files where too large to retrieve from the provider in a sensible way let alone being offered for download someplace.

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