Building a new game!

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Steamed_Punk
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Building a new game!

by Steamed_Punk » Post

+ Spoiler
WARNING: This is based on pure curiosity about Minetest's possibilities I am not trying and change things. Please be constructive and read through before burning me to the ground.

I have been playing with the idea of creating a game but just read over at dev.minetest about inclusion and the rules. What mainly drew my attention was the part about nodes and subdivisions sizes for the grid, and textures 16x16. Chests for example being an exception. (Although I haven't read anything I am guessing that my tepee size could well exclude my Mod from being included (but that's another story)).

Now knowing this about node sizes and textures I am wondering where i would stand if my game or mod doesn't fit those rules.
Would I not be allowed to mention it anywhere here, a WIP for example?

I fully understand that the majority of you are hardcore pixel art fans, that's why I am here.

For years I used another language that uses the same sort of grid system but we have spaces that are 256x256. This started around 15 years before MC (way ahead of it's time) and we had hundreds of different different mesh's. I contributed a lot of 3D objects.
My point is even if Mt is excellent as a sandbox pixel game. I can see so much more potential to the way the grid space can be used. My thoughts would not prevent other mods from working or even change the game play, unless you wanted it to. It could even make game creation a lot easier in certain ways. Pre-built low poly buildings and structures that would require the user to simply copy the original texture and change what they want. I have a small cute cottage that i built. Stone walls, windows and a thatched roof. I just used gimp to create a new transparent layer and made the cottage look like a old medics hut from some war and even into a gun shop. Because of a transparent background the cottage didn't display the hanging shop sign but on the others you can see guns and a red cross. One model, three different buildings. Other models such as high walls or turret towers could be built in such a way that so that users can still change and modify textures in exactly the same way as they do now and keeping the pixel'ish feel, 16x16 for example and using the default MT textures so that things change when people use other texture packs.

Like I said I am just wondering about the community thoughts to prebuilt models pixel'ish looking or not and the eventual reaction to a game built or mod that uses them. I have to be honest, I am very curious as to how far MT could be pushed in creating a game with more complex models and what sort of new dimensions and possibilities could be opened up.

Please be kind, I am not trying to start a flame war here.
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Re: Building a new game!

by luk3yx » Post

Are you talking about https://dev.minetest.net/Minetest_Game_development? I think this only applies for minetest_game (https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game), not independent games.
git_undo() { [ -e .git ] || return 1; local r=$(git remote get-url origin); cd ..; rm -rf "$OLDPWD"; git clone "$r" "$OLDPWD"; cd "$OLDPWD"; }

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Re: Building a new game!

by Steamed_Punk » Post

luk3yx wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 07:38
Are you talking about https://dev.minetest.net/Minetest_Game_development? I think this only applies for minetest_game (https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game), not independent games.
Yes, that is the page with the rules I came across. What I am asking is still all about using the Minetest engine so I am not really thinking about a game that is completely independent. What I have in mind would be to share with the community if acceptable.
I am just trying to start a conversation about doing something a little different with minetest just to see what could be done and to gain people opinions.
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Re: Building a new game!

by luk3yx » Post

Steamed_Punk wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:40
What I am asking is still all about using the Minetest engine so I am not really thinking about a game that is completely independent.
That's what I meant by "independent game", I should have been more clear.
git_undo() { [ -e .git ] || return 1; local r=$(git remote get-url origin); cd ..; rm -rf "$OLDPWD"; git clone "$r" "$OLDPWD"; cd "$OLDPWD"; }

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Re: Building a new game!

by Steamed_Punk » Post

Just as an example:
These are not photoshoped in they are actually in game.
If I could find (some storage device) the cottage image and use it on the same model the hanging sign is not seen.

All 3 huts relooked to start a village
Image

Guns 'n' Bullets
Image

The Medic
Image

Old Shop
Image
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Re: Building a new game!

by paramat » Post

The development guidelines for Minetest Game are only for Minetest Game, you should ignore those when making new games, they are irrelevant for other games.
We actually really want people to make new games that are very different to Minetest Game, we have been asking for this for many years. The fact that many games are similar to, or derived from, Minetest Game is a big problem.
Personally i think the focus on Minetest Game is Minetest's biggest problem.

> What I am asking is still all about using the Minetest engine so I am not really thinking about a game that is completely independent.

Every game for the Minetest Engine is completely independent from the Minetest Engine, this includes Minetest Game.

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Re: Building a new game!

by Sokomine » Post

Steamed_Punk wrote: This started around 15 years before MC (way ahead of it's time) and we had hundreds of different different mesh's. I contributed a lot of 3D objects.
It would certainly be great if those objects could be used somewhere.
Steamed_Punk wrote: I have a small cute cottage that i built. Stone walls, windows and a thatched roof. I just used gimp to create a new transparent layer and made the cottage look like a old medics hut from some war and even into a gun shop. Because of a transparent background the cottage didn't display the hanging shop sign but on the others you can see guns and a red cross. One model, three different buildings.
Those are very nice models which can look very fine in a MT world. I did something vagualy similar with my mg_villages mod: Pre-built houses (out of normal blocks) are placed in the world with some materials replaced by other materials.

It might require some thinking to get models of complete houses to integrate well into the world and allow players the amount of interaction they expect. For one thing, there's no way to modify parts of the house because the house is just one model, not a collection of blocks. That might be fine in a lot of situations - no need for extra protection (the house owners just don't allow random people to modify their property).

Another problem is collusion. The engine can't handle objects that are larger than one block well and reliably in that regard. Players would be able to march through the walls if there's no additional precaution taken. It might be necessary to construct a basic house out of suitable shapes to handle collusion. The texture/model itself might be "worn" as a coat and supplied by a single node.

Players will also expect to be able to interact with some objects, in particular doors. Those are just too inviting for opening and taking a look inside.

MT is sadly still missing a lot regarding interaction with mobs.

If you add any new models that can be used freely, it might happen that some modders get inspired to create mods that add a functionality to them. Many modders (myself included) aren't great artists and not good at creating textures or models.
A list of my mods can be found here.

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Re: Building a new game!

by Steamed_Punk » Post

paramat wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 22:40
The development guidelines for Minetest Game are only for Minetest Game, you should ignore those when making new games, they are irrelevant for other games.
We actually really want people to make new games that are very different to Minetest Game, we have been asking for this for many years. The fact that many games are similar to, or derived from, Minetest Game is a big problem.
Personally i think the focus on Minetest Game is Minetest's biggest problem.

> What I am asking is still all about using the Minetest engine so I am not really thinking about a game that is completely independent.

Every game for the Minetest Engine is completely independent from the Minetest Engine, this includes Minetest Game.
Hi Paramat, thanks for such a reassuring reply. I really did hesitate before starting this thread and did expect to be burnt to the ground and shunned. Now that I know this, the community can prepare it's self for a fair amount of new objects and models to be used.
Obviously I have to get organized, sort through them and categorize things in ways they are easy to use. Not just throw everything into a single mod.

>Every game for the Minetest Engine is completely independent from the Minetest Engine, this includes Minetest Game.
Lost me on this one. :-D

And thanks again, made my day :-)
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Re: Building a new game!

by Steamed_Punk » Post

Sokomine wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 01:23
It would certainly be great if those objects could be used somewhere.
They are on their way ;-)
Sokomine wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 01:23
Those are very nice models which can look very fine in a MT world. I did something vagualy similar with my mg_villages mod: Pre-built houses (out of normal blocks) are placed in the world with some materials replaced by other materials.
Thank you, and yours, was this using schematics? I would like to see them if they are still around.
Sokomine wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 01:23
It might require some thinking to get models of complete houses to integrate well into the world and allow players the amount of interaction they expect. For one thing, there's no way to modify parts of the house because the house is just one model, not a collection of blocks. That might be fine in a lot of situations - no need for extra protection (the house owners just don't allow random people to modify their property).

Another problem is collusion. The engine can't handle objects that are larger than one block well and reliably in that regard. Players would be able to march through the walls if there's no additional precaution taken. It might be necessary to construct a basic house out of suitable shapes to handle collusion. The texture/model itself might be "worn" as a coat and supplied by a single node.

Players will also expect to be able to interact with some objects, in particular doors. Those are just too inviting for opening and taking a look inside.
The models in the images were converted and brought into the game within an hour. Obviously once the model was there I Just copied the code and changed it to use the other textures. At the moment you can walk straight through them. I remember when making my Tepee I came across the collision issue and scaled something up to prevent people walking through it. I think there are limits to the collision detection size. 3 or 4 blocks, I need to read up on this again. As for interactions and doors. yes this is an issue for the small huts, but I will probably just rip the door parts from the models leaving an open space. It's all maths and alignment and if I get it right then any Minetest door could be just slapped in place. As is, those models are exactly 7 blocks wide, 5 blocks deep and approx 5 high. I am guessing they are 1 pixel short all the way around so that a fence could be joined without poking through the building walls.

IT would be great if the collision detection size could be scaled up to at least the size 16x16 blocks which would allow to import and use some bigger models.
Sokomine wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 01:23
If you add any new models that can be used freely, it might happen that some modders get inspired to create mods that add a functionality to them. Many modders (myself included) aren't great artists and not good at creating textures or models.
Sure, everything I put up will be for everyone to use freely. I am also hoping that if I do and as you suggested, others would help make them more interactive.

I have about 7 hard drives to dig through and find both models and textures, no exaggeration, hundreds of them. Some would be just way to big to use here. So I have to be reasonable. LOL, some date back to 1995.

Thanks you for your encouragement, It's appreciated.
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Re: Building a new game!

by MisterE » Post

Well, are you intending to make an actual game? Games need a dev team. While I have a few other projects I am working on, and not too much time to spend on them, I would be willing to help. I have lots of ideas regarding gameplay, and I have started learning to mod minetest. I am also a 3d modeler with blender. So, if we could actively develop a game, I would be interested in helping.

If you already have an idea for a game, please share the details, so I could better decide if/how to help.

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Re: Building a new game!

by rubenwardy » Post

This looks cool, good luck with it

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Re: Building a new game!

by Steamed_Punk » Post

MisterE wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 14:47
Well, are you intending to make an actual game? Games need a dev team. While I have a few other projects I am working on, and not too much time to spend on them, I would be willing to help. I have lots of ideas regarding gameplay, and I have started learning to mod minetest. I am also a 3d modeler with blender. So, if we could actively develop a game, I would be interested in helping.

If you already have an idea for a game, please share the details, so I could better decide if/how to help.
In my opening thread the spoiler states that I may have chosen the wrong forum for this....
But yes I have a couple of Ideas for mini games, two of which are seasonal. A scary (get out of the) haunted Halloween Mansion. Another idea, more fun though and that is a wintery Bad Santa game with snowball fights against him and his elves.
What I used to do had a partnership deal in the 90's with Eidos. I/We had/have access to freely use all the textures from the original Tomb Raider. I was even sent an untextured and unanimated model of Lara herself, yes I legally have the Lara croft mesh in my PC. I am sure you know where I am taking this. POSSIBLY bringing Tombraider to minetest.

But like I said, maybe the wrong forum. For the moment I want to bring a whole load of new models to the community and then I will think about building a game. It would be difficult for you to help me if you haven't access to the models before hand ;-)
You said a game needs a dev team, yes you are correct, and I would appreciate any help when the time is right.
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Re: Building a new game!

by Steamed_Punk » Post

rubenwardy wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 15:07
This looks cool, good luck with it
Just saw this...thanks for the compliment. I am hoping that within a month I can have at least one lot ready for everyone.
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Re: Building a new game!

by MisterE » Post

There is an api for making subgames within server for MT survival; however IDK if its would be useful, But my idea is:
Those game ideas look like they might make good subgames. The existing subgame api could be used/expanded/rewritten so that these games could be easily generated in larger games. The code would have to set aside and protect an area of the map, generate the subgame map within it, and keep track of players entering and exiting the subgame board, as well as change the normal mechanics for whatever the subgame needs. It would be cool to be able to install these games on servers so that players have a more varied experience.

Yes, this forum topic is for game discussion, not for individual game development. However I think its fine to discuss Ideas here (it is game discussion)

Ok, I understand that you are not starting any project right now, but are uploading the models you have. Thanks for that.

I'm interested in monster and animal models (just putting it out there, no pressure)

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