[Idea] Proposal of adding an objective: Technology

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Esteban
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[Idea] Proposal of adding an objective: Technology

by Esteban » Tue Oct 21, 2014 13:04

I know, this has been discussed many times, but I present a more different perspective. Some want the game to have an objective similar to MC: A final boss. My opinion: Minetest should have an objective similar to the games like Civilization, where you win the game either by ruling the world or going into space. Instead of a fantasy themed realm, let it be planets like Mars. And to reach this you would craft items using specific books(knowledge) and items to produce new ones. Minetest is not always about realism, but having a objective of achieving technological advances would be awesome.

I won't add a poll, because I think is for better for this case that everyone posts their opinion...


+ Here is a concept map from Civilization IV
Last edited by Esteban on Thu Nov 13, 2014 14:39, edited 1 time in total.
 

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Re: Proposal of adding an objective: Technology

by napodan » Tue Oct 21, 2014 13:11

As I understand, minetest is an engine not a game. Your idea is very good for a subgame.
 

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Re: Proposal of adding an objective: Technology

by Esteban » Tue Oct 21, 2014 13:15

napodan wrote:As I understand, minetest is an engine not a game. Your idea is very good for a subgame.

You're right :P
I think this should be moved to subgame discussion then.
Last edited by Esteban on Tue Oct 21, 2014 13:40, edited 1 time in total.
 

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Re: Proposal of adding an objective: Technology

by Amaz » Tue Oct 21, 2014 13:27

Or would it be better moved to subgame discussion?
 

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Re: Proposal of adding an objective: Technology

by Esteban » Tue Oct 21, 2014 13:40

Amaz wrote:Or would it be better moved to subgame discussion?

Ok. Edited my topic move request to subgame discussion :)
 

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Re: Proposal of adding an objective: Technology

by Wuzzy » Tue Oct 21, 2014 14:20

Going into space? This is possible with a very simple trick: Nerd-poling.

Nerd-poling is a technique where you constantly sneak-jump and place a block below you. You can theoretically reach any height with this, it just takes a lot of blocks and patience.

In fact, reaching space is trivial. You would have to implement mechanisms to make it harder.


I wonder how you could possibly rule the world in Minetest. o_O
 

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Re: Proposal of adding an objective: Technology

by Esteban » Tue Oct 21, 2014 14:26

Wuzzy wrote:Going into space? This is possible with a very simple trick: Nerd-poling.

Nerd-poling is a technique where you constantly sneak-jump and place a block below you. You can theoretically reach any height with this, it just takes a lot of blocks and patience.
...


Well, with Minitest I learned that you can place a limit of height where you can place blocks, so this trick can be somehow canceled out.

Wuzzy wrote:...
I wonder how you could possibly rule the world in Minetest. o_O

If using mods like villages and npcs, pretty much will be acquiring those villages.
On vanilla minetest... I have no clue! x)
Maybe creating a city system that ends in 30000, 30000?
 

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Re: Proposal of adding an objective: Technology

by rubenwardy » Tue Oct 21, 2014 15:33

I love the idea of a space race as a final goal in Minetest. Not much use practically, as you can just nerd pole. More about the making the technology by crafting rarer and rarer things.

Credits and a congratulations message could appear. Ideally full screen, but a form spec if fine. This would add meaning to the test.
 

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Re: Proposal of adding an objective: Technology

by gamergardencat » Tue Oct 21, 2014 16:22

A questing API would fill this hole within a subgame. Also some tailored biomes that make from of the quest more challenging. Maybe add some stone that can only be broken by an iron axe which is found only in instances like castles or villages. Iron would be hidden under the stone but once it's broken you can get to the rest of the ore.

Starbound the player starts of with a few helper quests where they must learn how to interact with the world. Then they must build a becon so his homeworld can find him but there is a twist, that attracted a boss to fight off. The boss drops an unique items that must be used to continue the story.
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Re: Proposal of adding an objective: Technology

by Iqualfragile » Wed Oct 22, 2014 08:00

Why go up? The possibility of going down is completly underused in minetest.
There could be many layers that are either split by one harder layer or each have a different ground material (the first two being earth and normal stone).
You would then need to collect materials and craft things on each layer to reach the next one. Each layer could be a bit different in terms of atmosphere, there could for example be different animals on each layer and the cave gen could be different. Also maybe using a main colour per layer might be a good idea.
 

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Re: Proposal of adding an objective: Technology

by Esteban » Wed Oct 22, 2014 11:50

Iqualfragile wrote:Why go up? The possibility of going down is completly underused in minetest.
There could be many layers that are either split by one harder layer or each have a different ground material (the first two being earth and normal stone).
You would then need to collect materials and craft things on each layer to reach the next one. Each layer could be a bit different in terms of atmosphere, there could for example be different animals on each layer and the cave gen could be different. Also maybe using a main colour per layer might be a good idea.


That is an interesting idea! In fact, I would like to change "rule the world" with this. In order to beat the game you either have to win a space race, or get to far depths of the Earth/Ocean.
 

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Re: Proposal of adding an objective: Technology

by HeroOfTheWinds » Fri Oct 24, 2014 21:41

Iqualfragile wrote:Why go up? The possibility of going down is completly underused in minetest.
There could be many layers that are either split by one harder layer or each have a different ground material (the first two being earth and normal stone).
You would then need to collect materials and craft things on each layer to reach the next one. Each layer could be a bit different in terms of atmosphere, there could for example be different animals on each layer and the cave gen could be different. Also maybe using a main colour per layer might be a good idea.

See: Jordach's Big Freaking Dig. It may not have a set goal of getting down to a certain point, but that presence of "layers" is definitely there. Just toss in the feature to make it recognize you reached a certain point.

Another possible way of doing the technology goal: have an achievement system, with the additions of so-called "Great Achievements" that are especially tough to get, and a sort of "Grand Quest/Achievement" that constitutes beating the game. So, for example, setting up your first working MV Technic circuit could be an early to mid game "Great Achievement," while making a nuclear reactor circuit would be a late game one. Building a specific circuit equivalent to a rocket could be the "Grand Achievement," and simultaneously teleport the player to a special version of MoonRealm as a reward.

Likewise, with more work, CaveRealms could furnish a layer effect similar to the above described, and perhaps have some sort of temple at the "center" of the earth that needs conquering.
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Re: Proposal of adding an objective: Technology

by Jordach » Sat Oct 25, 2014 10:51

HeroOfTheWinds wrote:
Iqualfragile wrote:Why go up? The possibility of going down is completly underused in minetest.
There could be many layers that are either split by one harder layer or each have a different ground material (the first two being earth and normal stone).
You would then need to collect materials and craft things on each layer to reach the next one. Each layer could be a bit different in terms of atmosphere, there could for example be different animals on each layer and the cave gen could be different. Also maybe using a main colour per layer might be a good idea.

See: Jordach's Big Freaking Dig. It may not have a set goal of getting down to a certain point, but that presence of "layers" is definitely there. Just toss in the feature to make it recognize you reached a certain point.

Another possible way of doing the technology goal: have an achievement system, with the additions of so-called "Great Achievements" that are especially tough to get, and a sort of "Grand Quest/Achievement" that constitutes beating the game. So, for example, setting up your first working MV Technic circuit could be an early to mid game "Great Achievement," while making a nuclear reactor circuit would be a late game one. Building a specific circuit equivalent to a rocket could be the "Grand Achievement," and simultaneously teleport the player to a special version of MoonRealm as a reward.

Likewise, with more work, CaveRealms could furnish a layer effect similar to the above described, and perhaps have some sort of temple at the "center" of the earth that needs conquering.

EDIT2: BFD does have world layering, which iron tools stop working on crust stone, and diamond / mese at mese stone layer. The mobs spawn far more at those depths. (Even in moderate light.) Dungeon Masters are only visible at crust and below.


Actually, BFD will look like some ultimate hybrid of Tekkit Classic, Yogscast Complete and other MC mods/modpacks. (It'll run smoothly by itself, with no external mod requirements.)

The base level is "factions", which are three skill trees, which are helped by three subtrees:

Skill Trees:

Futurology and Atomic Physics
Alchemy and Quantum Nature
Magic and Spirits

Sub-Skill Trees:

Mining Techniques, Ore Knowledge and Wood Working
Jewler, Fine Arts and Crafts
Farming, Cooking and Smithing

After playing said modpacks for a while, I learned that my game is missing either element, and is not balanced in the way PvE/P works.

Think of Rock, Paper, Scissors in how the main skill trees work, Futurology is stopped by Magic, Magic by Alchemy, Alchemy by Futurology, and the second half of the main skills are in reverse.

The subskills are designed so you don't spend a single hour and end up being the magic/technologic singularity. (Can confirm, EE2 is overpowered.)

Unlike other RTS / RPG games, where you have to deal with your choice of skill tree and or tech tree, you can use all three, ala Skyrim. This can make for interesting choices. I did consider Alchemy to have "Religious Understanding" as the secondary skill, but that'd cause issues with people.

EDIT3: Achivement systems are overrated, which defeat the point of a sandbox game.
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Re: Proposal of adding an objective: Technology

by Rochambeau » Sat Nov 01, 2014 19:56

OT:

I can't start a new topic in this subforum. Am I the only one? Is this why there is only one topic?
 

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Re: Proposal of adding an objective: Technology

by gamergardencat » Sun Nov 02, 2014 11:53

New topics seen to be available for WIP but not the other three. Subgame Discussion should be opened for members.
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Re: Proposal of adding an objective: Technology

by texmex » Wed Jun 14, 2017 13:04

HeroOfTheWinds wrote:See: Jordach's Big Freaking Dig. It may not have a set goal of getting down to a certain point, but that presence of "layers" is definitely there. Just toss in the feature to make it recognize you reached a certain point.

Where can I read more about these layers, Jordach? How do they work?

For layers and game mechanics, also see the ideas in emerging mod geominer.

As for the topic at hand, tech-trees and the like: I've come across several "advancement mods" trying to deal with such mechanics, so they do exist in one state or the other. That's not the problem. What's lacking is people to create actual game concepts around them, to actually implement something with them. Someone doing that would be utmost welcome!
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