[Dev Diary] Al-Kimiya (discarded)

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[Dev Diary] Al-Kimiya (discarded)

by firefox » Post

i'm starting this development diary in hopes of motivating me to actually do something.

let's begin with my tragic background story:
a long time ago, i discovered Minetest and ... nevermind it doesn't matter. fast forward to the present - once again i have a plan for a game that will satisfy my desires. this time it's a real plan, far better than the vague ideas i used in previous attempts. i'm sharing my ideas to claim them for myself before anyone else does it.


the name of the game is [Al-Kimiya], literally meaning "alchemy". there'll be no fancy magic system or any of that stuff, just another block building survival game. the name has more symbolic meaning, and will bear an important role in the story (if i ever get to write that).
i like to have many colourful biomes, but i don't like the stripe-land and uneven distribution that comes with it. but with the 'new' feature of coordinate limited biome definitions, i can assign different climate zones to distinct areas of the world. and this is what Al-Kimiya is about. there are 9 different areas, and each of them will have it's own temperature/humidity based biome map. each area is attributed to a great eidolon, which influences the design.

in the middle is the middle area. no extreme climates here, just the average standard stuff.
it is ruled by the Star Beast - Qilin, whose signature colour is gold, so gold will be a significant resource in this area. but gold is too soft for tool-making, so the strongest tools here are made from star metal.

the west is the domain of the Moon Beast - White Tiger.
a dry climate, but without drought. savannah is the common landscape here, and most stuff is white coloured. you can build with white clay and pale wood, decorate with silver and diamonds and make powerful tools from white steel.

in the south reigns the Sun Beast - Vermilion Bird.
the climate is hot, tropical but not overgrown with vegetation. there are deserts, but they are alive. obviously the signature colour is red, so you can find red clay and forge red steel.

the Primordial Beast - Black Tortoise sleeps in the north.
this area combines the extremes of glaciers and volcanoes to create a fertile oasis in-between. ice may not be the best building material but you'll have a variety of volcanic stones available. the beaches have black sand, clay is dark grey, everything may look pretty dark but it's a hospitable place. the durable black steel can only be found in this region.

to the east lies the domain of the Lake Beast - Azure Dragon.
lakes and swamps make up the valleys, so it's moist here. thick bamboo forests cover the hills and you can find exotic trees up the mountains. jade gemstones are the unique material of this region, and the mysterious blue steel is forged here.

the north-east is the sanctuary of the Water Spirit - Undine.
water here is so clear that even the oceans are filled with fresh water. the mountains are covered in clean white snow. you won't find any dry biomes, even the deserts are growing grass.

in the south-east the Wind Spirit - Sylph dances over the fields.
a gentle wind cultivates blooming vegetation throughout the valleys, but the mountains are ravaged by thunderstorms. lodestone can be found up there.

north-west is the home of the Earth Spirit - Gnome.
the soil here is most fertile, so trees tend to grow to gigantic sizes. build with a variety of coloured clay and harvest big fruits.

and lastly the south-west, dwelling of the Fire Spirit - Salamander.
anything too far from the water is likely burned. explore the salt desert and the fossil ocean, stride across the rainbow dunes and discover the glass desert. life is only possible near the water level but with some luck you may find an oasis in most unexpected places.
Last edited by firefox on Wed Nov 02, 2022 05:09, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Dev Diary] Al-Kimiya

by freshreplicant » Post

Sounds very interesting! I have always felt that MTG/MTE games lack original lore or a distinct feel for the world (that was kind of an issue for Minecraft too in my mind). This seems like it has a lot of atmosphere.

Will these beasts be actually present in the world? Will there be combat? What kind of mobs will there be?

Also, building wise, can you use materials from one biome in the others, or will they actually be locked to a specific area (so you can only build with jade and such in the Azure Dragon's area?

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Re: [Dev Diary] Al-Kimiya

by firefox » Post

areas are not locked. you can travel freely as usual, i will also add some means of teleportation.
i want to make use of the world size to add diversity, so travelling is actually rewarding.

the eidolons will not be present, but some materials or items will be based on them.

in accordance with the story, hostile mobs will mostly be golems in many forms, and some ghosts. i have to work with existing material as i can't blend and animate new models.

speaking of the story, this is not an adventure quest game. all of the story has already happened. this is a new world and the players make their own stories.
the story is told in flashbacks. by collecting ripped pages (from mobs) you can craft books which contain a fragment of the story, told from a specific perspective. by gathering more pages of matching type books can be upgraded to unlock more chapters.
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Re: [Dev Diary] Al-Kimiya

by Skamiz Kazzarch » Post

PTW
Hype! Sounds very promising.
Especially since you seem to already have a lot planed in advance.

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Re: [Dev Diary] Al-Kimiya

by Skamiz Kazzarch » Post

So... it's been a bit.

How large are trees going to be?
I was thinking that it would be nice if they were a good bit bigger then in MTG (especially the tiny apple trees.) to give the world more verticallity and the feeling of having something overhead in forests.

Also, do you mind getting poked about this project like this from time to time?

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Re: [Dev Diary] Al-Kimiya

by firefox » Post

Skamiz Kazzarch wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 08, 2022 12:16
Hype! Sounds very promising.
Especially since you seem to already have a lot planed in advance.
i've been breeding on this idea for a few years. most of the advance plans come from previous versions.
Skamiz Kazzarch wrote: ↑
Tue Jan 18, 2022 11:26
So... it's been a bit.
aye... i wanted to have a header and icon by now, along with the basic structure to have them show up in-game. but instead i learned how to crochet pants :P
Skamiz Kazzarch wrote: ↑
Tue Jan 18, 2022 11:26
How large are trees going to be?
i think like the redwood trees from ethereal. most likely they will be redwoods as well. then some baobab and dragon trees.
Skamiz Kazzarch wrote: ↑
Tue Jan 18, 2022 11:26
Also, do you mind getting poked about this project like this from time to time?
that's why i made this thread. working in secret by myself didn't get me nowhere.

and while i didn't reach the goal i had set last week, i still did make some kind of progress:
i got through my creativity blockade when i realized that half of my ideas are based on maps from Another Eden.
now assigning biomes to game locations trying to make a roadmap.
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Re: [Dev Diary] Al-Kimiya

by firefox » Post

first progress: header and icon :D

also, i noticed how "development test" has a different background. i wonder if it's possible to customise the menu background for games...
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Re: [Dev Diary] Al-Kimiya

by Skamiz Kazzarch » Post


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Re: [Dev Diary] Al-Kimiya

by firefox » Post

overlay works but it gets stretched to fit the window size.
footer and background don't appear at all.
(i have installed the newest version, 5.5.0)
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Re: [Dev Diary] Al-Kimiya

by Skamiz Kazzarch » Post

Can't say I have much experience with this, but does the background appear when you set 'menu_clouds' to false?
I noticed that turning the clouds off seems to disable the overlay.

edit: Did a few tests. Seems to me that you can either have a background which is always displayed. Or you can have an overlay which is displayed over the background clouds, but leaves the background a blank sky when the clouds are disabled. The overlay always disables the background, regardless of whether or not clouds are enabled.

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Re: [Dev Diary] Al-Kimiya

by firefox » Post

Skamiz Kazzarch wrote: ↑
Wed Feb 09, 2022 14:11
The overlay always disables the background, regardless of whether or not clouds are enabled.
thank you~
didn't think about that possibility at all.
guess i'll try to make the background look like parchment then.
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Re: [Dev Diary] Al-Kimiya

by Skamiz Kazzarch » Post

So... Will sleeping and setting the re-spawn point be connected? Will sleeping to skip the night even be a thing?
It could be desirable to have a higher cost for setting the spawn position, depending on available transportation methods.
I can imagine a game without time skipping, as long as the night brings something other then just bad visibility.

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Re: [Dev Diary] Al-Kimiya

by firefox » Post

Skamiz Kazzarch wrote: ↑
Sun Mar 06, 2022 15:38
So... Will sleeping and setting the re-spawn point be connected? Will sleeping to skip the night even be a thing?
It could be desirable to have a higher cost for setting the spawn position, depending on available transportation methods.
I can imagine a game without time skipping, as long as the night brings something other then just bad visibility.
i thought those settings are build-in with the bed mod. re-setting the spawn point by sleeping is reasonable. maybe the home position set-up and teleport should require a tool.
for transportation, i like TenPlus1's teleport pads. they are easy to use, but you must visit the target location to set them up.
rails and carts are a standard, also floats. ultimately i want a flying device, but it wouldn't be necessary until floating islands are added.

sleeping to skip the night gives beds a purpose, but i also want the option to sleep to skip the day.
haven't thought about the details yet, but at least the sun and moon regions should have day/night-time dependent features.
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Re: [Dev Diary] Al-Kimiya

by Skamiz Kazzarch » Post

firefox wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 12, 2022 05:28
~snip~
Yeah, the free instant teleportation point (or two depending on inventory mod) provided by the home command is super weird. Usually such a convenient power would be endgame content. Which would even conveniently give the player something to strive for.

The teleport potion mod looks reasonable, but I do hope you change the recipes. It's kind of silly that pretty much every time a mod wants to make a recipe expensive they reach for either diamonds or mese.

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Re: [Dev Diary] Al-Kimiya

by firefox » Post

Skamiz Kazzarch wrote: ↑
Tue Mar 15, 2022 11:41
but I do hope you change the recipes. It's kind of silly that pretty much every time a mod wants to make a recipe expensive they reach for either diamonds or mese.
of course i'll change the recipes.
not sure where to put diamonds yet, but i'll certainly won't have mese in my game.

--- --- ---

irregular progress update:
Screenshot_2022-03-17_13-16-38.png
Screenshot_2022-03-17_13-16-38.png (635.54 KiB) Viewed 3428 times
got a header & footer, background is an old screenshot from a previous game attempt and will be replaced.
the game now has stone, water and river water to satisfy the minimum requirements of the mapgen.
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Re: [Dev Diary] Al-Kimiya

by firefox » Post

no physical update this time, i was working on another project.
but since i had not yet started to set the tracks, i took the chance to make some major design alterations to biomes.
specifically the Qilin area, which now has a completely new concept.
next time i will have to new screenshots to show :)
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Re: [Dev Diary] Al-Kimiya

by Skamiz Kazzarch » Post

Hey-ho. o/ How is it going?
Todays topic: Smelting.
MTG is in a weird spot, where you can smelt metal from ore in 3 seconds flat, but cooking food takes several times longer. Also, besides the fact that in both processes you apply heat to a thing, irl they are otherwise very different.

I personally wouldn't mind if smelting was an entire separate process with it's own work station and maybe a bit more involved then just throwing the ore in and waiting.

Do you have any plans and thoughts regarding this?

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Re: [Dev Diary] Al-Kimiya

by firefox » Post

Skamiz Kazzarch wrote: ↑
Wed May 11, 2022 05:22
Hey-ho. o/ How is it going?
i made light/dark variants of stone, and plan to do this for all materials.
biome specific colours are limited to certain plants and special materials, otherwise it would be too monotone.
i finished one of my crochet projects and started writing a book (unrelated to this game), so there is not much progress.
although the world-building for my book and fixing plot holes made me realize some flaws of my game design, so at least i made some progress on the design plan.
Skamiz Kazzarch wrote: ↑
Wed May 11, 2022 05:22
MTG is in a weird spot, where you can smelt metal from ore in 3 seconds flat, but cooking food takes several times longer. Also, besides the fact that in both processes you apply heat to a thing, irl they are otherwise very different.

I personally wouldn't mind if smelting was an entire separate process with it's own work station and maybe a bit more involved then just throwing the ore in and waiting.

Do you have any plans and thoughts regarding this?
i like simple things like the all-in-one furnace, but i also like custom apparatuses with ingredient-based cooking.
haven't decided on the crafting system yet, as i don't even know how many materials i will have available.
shape-based crafting is easy but limited. ingredient-based crafting allows much more recipes. i guess my choice will be heavily influenced by available mods to use...
(although i do favour the ingredient system, and i remember seeing a mod for shapeless crafting via workbench/cauldron.)
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Re: [Dev Diary] Al-Kimiya

by Skamiz Kazzarch » Post

firefox wrote: ↑
Sun May 22, 2022 11:49
haven't decided on the crafting system yet, as i don't even know how many materials i will have available.
shape-based crafting is easy but limited. ingredient-based crafting allows much more recipes. i guess my choice will be heavily influenced by available mods to use...
(although i do favour the ingredient system, and i remember seeing a mod for shapeless crafting via workbench/cauldron.)
:D
Lol, what a coincidence. Might I interest you in my most recent mod: Fast Craft ?

If that's at all like what you had in mind, I wouldn't mind making you a game specific version. (Like, if you wanted the various elements moved around, use a different style, or rather had it attached to a node then in the player inventory, etc... )

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Re: [Dev Diary] Al-Kimiya

by firefox » Post

tiny update:

i reverted back to using the default textures since they are easier to modify.
water comes in 3 colour variants - the default one, a lighter coloured warm water and a darker coloured cold water. probably need to to the same for river water to fit into the palette.
gotta start structuring the geographic biome sections next, so cold water is used in the three northern areas and warm water in the 3 southern areas.
in addition to the grey default stone, i'll add secondary colours. the red desert stone from MTG will appear in the Vermillion Bird area, and for Black Tortoise and White Tiger i made black and white stone. will be adding a smudgy yellow stone for Qilin and a greenish stone for Azure Dragon.
dirt and sand also need to have matching colours, a lot of work just for aesthetics. i'm scared of trees, since i'll very likely want to have eastern and western variants of the same tree... we'll burn that bridge when we get there.
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Re: [Dev Diary] Al-Kimiya

by Skamiz Kazzarch » Post

firefox wrote: ↑
Tue Aug 02, 2022 09:59
i reverted back to using the default textures since they are easier to modify.
Fall on my knees and scream towards the sky: NOOOOOOOOOO!!!

IMO, textures are one (among many) weak point of MTG. Due to it's history they vary wildly in style and quality and often the quality is rather... lacking. And not helping the situation is that many mods make their textures by copying them from default, slapping them with a color filter and calling it done. Leading to them inheriting the same issues from default and to the textures being boring, since they are all clearly the same.

Sorry for the rant, it's just something that bothers me all the time I play MTG and this was an opportunity to vent a bit.

Anyway, more relevant to you.
1) One of the things that bothers me about the default stone texture is that is a bit dark. It feels like it is always shadowed or something. I think it could do with being just a bit brighter.
2) I have made a lot of textures for various projects and experiments of mine over time and wouldn't mind sharing them for the good cause of avoiding MTG textures.
[25 stone textures]
screenshot_20220802_160211.png
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Would that be something you are interested in?
The main caveat is that my textures are yet another style that might clash with textures by other people.

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Re: [Dev Diary] Al-Kimiya

by firefox » Post

Skamiz Kazzarch wrote: ↑
Tue Aug 02, 2022 14:24
IMO, textures are one (among many) weak point of MTG. Due to it's history they vary wildly in style and quality and often the quality is rather... lacking. And not helping the situation is that many mods make their textures by copying them from default, slapping them with a color filter and calling it done. Leading to them inheriting the same issues from default and to the textures being boring, since they are all clearly the same.
maybe i'll try again with [RPG16], i had some dejΓ  vu issues with editing default textures so i probably did something wrong in my earlier attempts...
after all, i had no trouble working with [Pixel Perfection] in the previous game.
Skamiz Kazzarch wrote: ↑
Tue Aug 02, 2022 14:24
[25 stone textures]
some of them look like they came out of a tool in Gimp, i don't think of them much higher than of the default texture.

but you got me there. i wanted to be unique and no one is using [RPG16] yet, i'll try again.
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Re: [Dev Diary] Al-Kimiya

by Blockhead » Post

firefox wrote: ↑
Wed Aug 03, 2022 16:14
some of them look like they came out of a tool in Gimp, i don't think of them much higher than of the default texture.
Hey, don't knock us programmer-artists who can't draw for peanuts and need filters to make everything. Some of my best work was GIMP filters :P
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Re: [Dev Diary] Al-Kimiya

by Skamiz Kazzarch » Post

firefox wrote: ↑
Wed Aug 03, 2022 16:14
some of them look like they came out of a tool in Gimp, i don't think of them much higher than of the default texture.
Oof, you got me there, some of them are little more then color + noise filter. In my defense, most of them were made over 2 years ago and I like to think I have gotten better since then, and as the artist it's hard to judge how they appear to others, since I of course know what they are supposed to be depicting.


Anyway, RPG16 is a good choice. I played with it for a while and liked it pretty much without reservation.
Last edited by Skamiz Kazzarch on Fri Aug 12, 2022 16:49, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: [Dev Diary] Al-Kimiya

by firefox » Post

made a little progress :D
RPG16 is more difficult to modify than MTG because of the colours, but the result is worth it.
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