Why is Multicraft more popular than Minetest?

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Wuzzy
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Why is Multicraft more popular than Minetest?

by Wuzzy » Post

On Android, Multicraft has a absurdly high download count of 50 MILLION, a rating of 4.2 stars and 200000 reviews.
But Minetest for Android only has 1 Million downloads, 3.9 stars, 10000 reviews.

Multicraft is beating Minetest although it's just a fork of Minetest that is infested with full-screen ads.

How is this possible???? What on Earth is Multicraft doing right that Minetest is doing wrong?

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Re: Why is Multicraft more popular than Minetest?

by Festus1965 » Post

Downloads ? never trust them
I would tell, that the higher the download rate against the player rate, the more the down-loader was disappointed.

real gamer ? servers.
minetest.net = 376, with 110 MultiCraft = 266 Minetest
multicraft.world = 198 (incl. this 110)
= player 464 and 57.3 % MC to 42,6% MT

MultiCraft doing right :
* combine protocol 0.4 and 5.x - whatever reason for this incompatible was, they fixed it
* don't let the 0.4 down as that via mobile is still the biggest group of player (was it when I startet this question)
* more faster servers
* but less server (there are just under 40 against 400 at us) = people are more together on one server = more fun as old time. Solution: maybe do NOT list server with 0 player or 0 avg player at us = new player faster see server WITH players
* maybe same people, but with other 'hat' made their own money with it and so felt to encourage more into also
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Re: Why is Multicraft more popular than Minetest?

by Linuxdirk » Post

No “real player” cares about server technology or protocols.
Wuzzy wrote:
Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:20
How is this possible???? What on Earth is Multicraft doing right that Minetest is doing wrong?
It’s all about the presentation in the store that is relevant here.

Multicraft uses a dozen of bright and colorful screenshots showing different aspects of what player will get, it also has an alluring description.

On the other hand, Minetest uses a few generic, somewhat dull, and rather depressing screenshots and has no description at all.

As a user not being already a Minetest user, would you rather download Game A or Game B?

Game A
Spoiler
MultiCraft — Build and Mine!

Image

Introducing MultiCraft ― world of unlimited opportunities! Get ready for real Adventures!

Build and Destroy Blocks. Get Resources and Create Various Tools, Blocks and Weapons with which you can Survive and create unique Buildings.

Choose your side in this world ― a Builder (Creative mode) or a Ruthless Hunter, who will do everything to stay
Game B
Spoiler
Minetest

Image
Be honest.

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Re: Why is Multicraft more popular than Minetest?

by Blockhead » Post

It's the control scheme from what I've heard. Minetest's control scheme is straight up considered inferior to Multicraft or Minecraft. Phones are hard enough to use at the best of times, but Minetest's Android controls don't help. I think this is the most important concern and was surprised nobody else has posted it yet.

Secondly, Multicraft ships with a better game than Minetest Game, which gives it a better new player experience. Block games are a dime a dozen on Google Play, so if someone is looking through all the free ones, they're much more likely to get engaged with the one that plays well out of the box, less imagination required.

Others have already raised the other problems like poor marketing - Minetest's Google Play listing just doesn't sell it well. Server compatibility seems dubious - even MultiCraft has ditched some of the really old protocol versions lately.

Another problem is that Minetest isn't available on iOS. MultiCraft is, which means people with iPhones and Android devices can still recommend each other the same game and know that they can play together. iOS support is considered a bit of a pipe dream for Minetest, but at least we can attribute MultiCraft's success over Minetest in part to that.

Therefore the roadmap for getting Minetest to be more successful on mobile looks something like this:
  1. Improve the control scheme/input handling drastically. This requires expertise from people like grorp, author of #13187 "Place nodes with a single tap" and hands-on testing with users.
  2. Ship a better game or games. Who says Minetest for Android has to ship with Minetest Game like the desktop version does? Surely we can ship something better like MeseCraft. Mineclone2 is obviously a risk, so maybe not. Subway Miner, PRANG! and other minigames might be a good choice to show the variety of possibilities within one app.
  3. Improve the Google Play listing to show more breadth of Content in a more engaging fashion, in particular the improved control scheme and the packaged games. Cleverly craft screenshots that maximise engagement and activity. Don't be nearly as subtle as the current screenshots. I know a lot of us (especially here on the forums) aren't the type that are prone to getting all excited about in-your-face type images like this, but we're competing with commercial marketers here for attention, and they'll use whatever tricks they can to grab attention.
Other tactics may help like a high-performance official server and advertising, but those have steep costs which I don't expect people to pay for. Guerilla campaigns through certain YouTubers may help though. Spreading the word about "new and improved" Minetest by word of mouth and influence doesn't have to cost a cent - depending on the size of a YouTuber's audience and so on though.

Edit: Oh and I forgot to mention the name Minetest doesn't sell it very well either...
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Re: Why is Multicraft more popular than Minetest?

by Mr. Rar » Post

Festus1965 wrote:
Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:36
real gamer ? servers.
minetest.net = 376, with 110 MultiCraft = 266 Minetest
Minetest has more servers because Minetest has more technical users. Whereas MultiCraft attracts non-technical users.
* combine protocol 0.4 and 5.x - whatever reason for this incompatible was, they fixed it
Not any more! MultiCraft recently removed 0.4.x compatibility.

I totally agree with everything Blockhead said.

I also want to take this opportunity to point out that some code used by MultiCraft is not legally licensed: viewtopic.php?f=55&t=29156
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Re: Why is Multicraft more popular than Minetest?

by ancientmariner » Post

I think it boils down to marketing.

product, price, place, and promotion

People often think marketing is just advertising. Minetest often focus on desktop MT (though a few do care about mobile).

You have to put yourself in the shoes of users. Is your product presented well? Place = mobile, is it built and works effectively on mobile. Promotion... does this look good and appeal to the users I'm trying to access (the mass market, the non technical players).

Basically, MT needs to analyse those items, and reviews from users, especially the bad ones, and prioritise fixing these first.

Good default game, good controls, well presented (with ideally a less crappy name). Actually make it look like something worth downloading, and people will download it. Of course, we could just rant that what is perceived as inferior is winning, but it's a little disrespectful to the user.

That's not to say that there aren't core devs that don't know the issue, but the steering committee has decided to change name, and remove the default game. It'll happen... any day now.... It'll happen.. when it happens, a bit like when the ents debate going to war in LoTR... :)

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Re: Why is Multicraft more popular than Minetest?

by Festus1965 » Post

Mr. Rar wrote:
Sat Jun 03, 2023 16:42
Festus1965 wrote:
Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:36
real gamer ? servers.
minetest.net = 376, with 110 MultiCraft = 266 Minetest
Minetest has more servers because Minetest has more technical users. Whereas MultiCraft attracts non-technical users.
* combine protocol 0.4 and 5.x - whatever reason for this incompatible was, they fixed it
Not any more! MultiCraft recently removed 0.4.x compatibility.
...
I think we have more skilled minetest users WITH PC or money to rent a server and also programmers in there what maybe a reason that mt users more likely are able to host an own server - phone users and just gamer don't do that even there was this server code thing to promote own server ...

MC kept the 0.4 version longer than MT and made it possible WITH the dual protocol that users can switch easy during the mobile 5.x version is spread along and the cut of 0.4 was not that lost anymore - against the doing of MT at that time.
That is marketing ... NOT let the 0.4 admins and gamer just behind

Moment, when that is true, that MC does not use both protocol, than their server should not get the punishment in the server-list points anymore, but just looking 'Nico's Small Builder Server' with 14 player is still NOT at the similar 3rd place it could be.
So this information (drop the 0.4) I don't see yet.
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Re: Why is Multicraft more popular than Minetest?

by Wuzzy » Post

Ah right, I totally forgot the Android version of Minetest has bad controls and still ships MTG. Does the Android version at least offer you the possibility to download other games? Because if not, that explains a lot.

And I agree, the store page for Minetest looks horrible and needs a complete rewrite + new screenshots.

Yeah, these are already two or three pretty strong reasons but I believe they can be fixed. I'm not a smartphone users (I hate smartphones) so I generally keep ignoring what happens in the smartphone world.

Note that iOS availablability does not explain it all because the download count is still significantly higher just in Android alone. And Minetest isn't going to be on iOS in the short time because Apple hates free software and copyleft (it's worse than Microsoft IMHO). Apple is to blame here, not Minetest.

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Re: Why is Multicraft more popular than Minetest?

by Blockhead » Post

Wuzzy wrote:
Sun Jun 04, 2023 12:58
Ah right, I totally forgot the Android version of Minetest has bad controls and still ships MTG. Does the Android version at least offer you the possibility to download other games? Because if not, that explains a lot.
The Android version has the same or near-same functionality, including full use of ContentDB to download other games. But most won't stick around long enough to find one. This discussion actually makes me wonder whether a Minetest shovelware "101 Games for Minetest" product would get a lot of downloads or not...
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Re: Why is Multicraft more popular than Minetest?

by v-rob » Post

Linuxdirk wrote:
Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:45
As a user not being already a Minetest user, would you rather download Game A or Game B?

Be honest.
To be honest, neither. The first looks like a hyped-up game that's probably lame and will more than likely have in-game ads, and the second one looks like a lame game that also probably has in-game ads. Actually, most mobile games look this way to me. And I wouldn't be wrong--Minetest Game is lame, although there are no in-game ads in the official game. Presumably, the majority of smartphone users would opt for the former, and I wouldn't blame them.
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Re: Why is Multicraft more popular than Minetest?

by Festus1965 » Post

Festus1965 wrote:
Sat Jun 03, 2023 23:54
Moment, when that is true, that MC does not use both protocol, than their server should not get the punishment in the server-list points anymore, but just looking 'Nico's Small Builder Server' with 14 player is still NOT at the similar 3rd place it could be.
So this information (drop the 0.4) I don't see yet.
So it 's written:
'Drop support for connecting to MT 0.4 servers'
and that happened 5 months ago.

This text concluded: newer Clients don't connect to ONLY or ALSO 0.4 servers
(this is the step MT did with 5.0 = let fall all older versions)

How long will it take that this client version is major our in the wild ?

When will the MultiCraft servers also drop the 0.4 support ? after they see no or too less player via 0.4 ?

As if they do so, the punishment of 'fishing in 2 lakes (they still fish in 3)' will also not take effect anymore, and some MultiCraft server will then lead the list of mt servers as often most player online.
That they then still fish in 2 lists, where the servers.multicraft.world is not listening mt servers I prompted a long time ago also.
That is also a reason why MC might be better positioned. Their clients don't see our server - but we still offer their server. Do you really think Mercedes or Audi would show BMW cars in their showroom, beside their cars are not shown at BMW ? stupid eh ?
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Re: Why is Multicraft more popular than Minetest?

by Nininik » Post

Imma be honest I downloaded multicraft in 2018, the updates ruined multicraft then I just used multicraft to play on ugx realms, after ugx got shut down in September 23 2022 I played for a bit but then 2 months later I switched to minetest. And I'm not regretting my choice multicraft used to be a good game (I miss those old textures and weirdly modeled mobs) but the updates made multicraft TRASH. I'm not regretting switching to minetest.
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Re: Why is Multicraft more popular than Minetest?

by Nininik » Post

Imma be honest multicraft added an in-game anti-swearing system for servers hosted by the player and its trash, you can't say poop but you can say crap, plus the game isn't open source you can't change your default game for multicraft nor modify it. multicraft is becoming multicrap. Any idea how do I host my own server in android minetest? (I need it for my minetest classic ARG)
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Re: Why is Multicraft more popular than Minetest?

by Festus1965 » Post

or maybe it's just the 'better' name ...
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Re: Why is Multicraft more popular than Minetest?

by Faustawk » Post

it's definitely just a better name. multicraft does everything in its' power to appear as an alternative to minecraft, while minetest gives off the overall aura of an unfinished, bland ripoff (which it is when unmodified, to be fair)

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Re: Why is Multicraft more popular than Minetest?

by mcaygerhard » Post

Mr. Rar wrote:
Sat Jun 03, 2023 16:42
Not any more! MultiCraft recently removed 0.4.x compatibility.
I totally agree with everything Blockhead said.
I also want to take this opportunity to point out that some code used by MultiCraft is not legally licensed: viewtopic.php?f=55&t=29156
do you know that some minetest contributiions already made commits to multicraft .. pretty so close XD

how hypocrite could be the big world

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Re: Why is Multicraft more popular than Minetest?

by mcaygerhard » Post

i am not shoked in any way about this!

see this with a lot of laughter and without any surprise, it is noticeable that all here are well outdated from reality for a long time

1. some here do not know that multicraft is the most downloaded
2. others do not know that multicraft adapts everything from minetest including the download of games and mods
3. also nobody did not know that telephones are much, much more used

The furro clientes minietest is pretty minimal agains the huge google crap, taking in consideration that developers are more interested in coding that fixing things..

NOTE: in such time that multicraft grow up, there are more comimts to FEATURED the EVOLUTION event for fixing many reported bugs

Also on top of most played servers there are two 0.4 : JT2 and subnasa! and those two somethings have huge amount of players really really players and not cheaters

Event if where cheaters, and only get into one time, in 8 years! sorry guys but i play both and the amount of cheaters are alsmot same of the amoun of players

The only guys that see such future (in that moment) was OldCoder (banned from minetest troltests) he was right, for play we need simplicity and friends.. not more nodes or features!!! sorry .. a complete fail XD currently subnasa has 2.0 of lag and still kids want to play there..

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Re: Why is Multicraft more popular than Minetest?

by Festus1965 » Post

Is that still ?

actual:
* servers.minetest.net : 381 - 131 MC server-player = 250 player in mt server
* servers.multicraft.world : 208 player on mc server
So actual mt server have more player again, near 54% , after long time not even 30% of all mt/mc player !

Remind, that player counting on servers does not make clear what client (mt or mc) they are using !!!
Minetest : 390 - 21 = 369 server
Multicraft : 35 Server
So from that perspective our 369 mt server are way to much and most also useless then.
How much money is spend to run them all ? and Electric ?

The much Downloads are NOT seen in player on server at all, so useless number !

Yes, maybe MC server have more mobile player, good point.

MT still listen MC server, during MC is not listening mt server.
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Re: Why is Multicraft more popular than Minetest?

by Nininik » Post

Maybe we need to stop allowing Android multicraft clients from joining MT SERVERS so that only IOS multicraft people can join MT servers
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Re: Why is Multicraft more popular than Minetest?

by Festus1965 » Post

Nininik wrote:
Fri Aug 11, 2023 22:08
Maybe we need to stop allowing Android multicraft clients from joining MT SERVERS so that only IOS multicraft people can join MT servers
= let them play only on MultiCraft, but sure they will not understand the intention of change to minetest, haha

before you go deeper in this wish, maybe you should analyze IF there are any Android or IOS multicraft player on minetest server !
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Re: Why is Multicraft more popular than Minetest?

by Nininik » Post

Yes, like ctf have multicraft android players.
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Re: Why is Multicraft more popular than Minetest?

by Festus1965 » Post

Festus1965 wrote:
Fri Aug 11, 2023 20:45
Is that still ?

actual:
* servers.minetest.net : 381 - 131 MC server-player = 250 player in mt server
* servers.multicraft.world : 208 player on mc server
So actual mt server have more player again, near 54% , after long time not even 30% of all mt/mc player !

Remind, that player counting on servers does not make clear what client (mt or mc) they are using !!!
Minetest : 390 - 21 = 369 server
Multicraft : 35 Server
* mt 432 - 149 = 283 player
* mc 173 player
= 62% are on minetest server = near 2/3 on mt
and remind mc = to 95%+ mt code ...
I still don't get how people NOW can write mc is more famous.
There is no evidence I see, how to detect mt or mc clients to tell this.
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Re: Why is Multicraft more popular than Minetest?

by 56independent_actual » Post

Let me offer my Two Cents: Multicraft is a for-profit project. It is in their best interest to get more users to serve them adverts and get a dime or two.

It makes sense for them to take a relatively-unknown FOSS project and adapt it to be a well-playable mobile game. They can make money from it and users can still contribute to the Minetest community somewhat (albeit in a fantasy land of unicorns and rainbows).

The best way for them to get money is to draw in users through promotional tactics mostly found in commercial settings; increasing the advert count annoys users, but bringing them in gives you money!

So, they end up making money from users, users end up having a good time (otherwise Multicraft would not be a problem in the Minetest community by grace of it being crap and having no users.

Minetest is a non-profit project (thank god). Nobody contributes for money, save for the indirect reward extra item(s) you can add to your CV by being a member of the community/team and contributing your code. In Minetest, everything is passion-based. This is great! There's a massive modding scene where nobody is expected to pay money, meaning classics like Pipeworks, Digilines, Technic, Techage, and eveb Mesecons are behind no paywall; you can go make those crazy factories for FREE!

However, There is no motivator to make the mobile client more user-friendly because the developers have laptops and play on laptops because it's convinient and easier. Nobody who can really wants to make the mobile experience better because they have more fun things to do - hey, that mod idea will make the whole of in-game Minetest automations better!

The only way we can really expand MInetest into the still-growing mobile market is to improve the mobile game, improve the promotion, and make it more user-friendly. Users are not developers. They don't really understand the whole thing behind that app, the whole community of changes. Maybe if they realised just how noble Minetest is in comparison to Multicraft, they''d use Minetest in a heartbeat. But they don't realise. They have more important things to do then learn about some obscure internet project.

I seriously suggest following Blockhead's roadmap. The mobile market is growing, and the engine needs to leverage this already-massive demographic to increase the community and make ContentDB more full.
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