Hunger

[BlockMen]

Since there is some discussion going on on github(https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3388) whether and how
hunger is a core feature and should be added i think the users should be more included.

I added a poll to this topic to get users views on this topic. Following the poll options:

- Hunger is a core feature, so add it
You think that hunger is as important as drowning and health AND you want it go in.

- Hunger is a core feature, but don't add it
You think that hunger is as important as drowning and health but you don't like hunger.

- Hunger is not a core feature, so don't add it
You think that hunger is not as important as drowning and health, so it shouldn't go in.

- Hunger is not a core feature, but add it anyway.
You think that hunger is not as important as drowning and health, but you like it anyway and it should be included.

- Something else
Please explain in a post why none of those categories fits your opinion and explain yours.


PS: Note that the PR on github is in an early state, but hunger will be optional as health.

[twoelk]

Hunger should be a core feature so add all needed hooks to the core
but
do not add hunger per se to the core because
if hunger - why not thirst, fatigue, need to go to the toilet, freezing, suffocating, being ill, dying from radiation and whatever doesn't come to my mind just now.

so if not yet present add a nice table per player where values that change with time/exposure/whatever can be tracked. Something that might be tapped by something like a medical report ;-P

[Ferk]

It's confusing to ask if it's a "core feature". What you mean is if it should be added to the engine.

I think it's a core feature, and I think it should be added, but not to the engine, but to the game. The more logic is done in Lua the more customizable for the mods it will be.

If the features are hardcoded in C++ you would have to fork and recompile the engine if you wanted to change the logic in some different original way for your game.

I actually would also prefer if things like breath and health could follow the same logic.

[rubenwardy]

This poll is misleading as it sounds like you're talking about adding hunger to minetest_game, but you're adding it to minetest/builtin.

So if not yet present add a nice table per player where values that change with time/exposure/whatever can be tracked.

This is a best solution, imo. You can use minetest.do_item_eat to override minetest.item_eat, however there may need to be an easier way for items to specify what value their food actually has, beyond hp.

[kaadmy]

[...] You can use minetest.do_item_eat to override minetest.item_eat, however there may need to be an easier way for items to specify what value their food actually has, beyond hp.

Here: https://github.com/kaadmy/pixture/blob/ ... t.lua#L135

I think support for all bars should be custom, say, where breath would go down while in group:water, health increases while hunger==20, and hunger decreases based on player movement and time.

Having hunger default is a good idea, but until someone can find a way to make how hunger acts different depending on the subgame, I prefer it in mods,and out of default.

[BlockMen]

@rubenwardy, wrong. Core is clearly the engine (and builtin), not any subgame. Especially in the context of "same as health and drowning"...
Also i don't contribute to Minetest Game anymore.

It's confusing to ask if it's a "core feature". What you mean is if it should be added to the engine.

I think it's a core feature, and I think it should be added, but not to the engine, but to the game. The more logic is done in Lua the more customizable for the mods it will be.

If the features are hardcoded in C++ you would have to fork and recompile the engine if you wanted to change the logic in some different original way for your game.

Core is engine and builtin, the hunger logic is written in Lua and can be overriden and/or disabled completly.

Edit: @kaadamy, as said above, subgames, mods, etc can change the hunger mechanics if wanted.

[mahmutelmas06]

I think not only hunger but also thirst should be in default game

[rubenwardy]

I think not only hunger but also thirst should be in default game

That's not what's being asked, he's asking whether it should be part of the engine, not if it should be part of default game.

[mahmutelmas06]

I think not only hunger but also thirst should be in default game

That's not what's being asked, he's asking whether it should be part of the engine, not if it should be part of default game.

I totally think we need hunger mod in game but i (probably most users) dont know what is the advantages and disadvantages to have them in builtin or subgame.

[rubenwardy]

That's exactly why this poll is misleading and confusing.

[benrob0329]

Hunger should be in MT Game, not the engine.

[Don]

I don't care if it is core or game as long as there is a way for mods to override/disable. That way mod/game developers still have control.

[Ben]

My take on this: I was hesitant to vote "core, do include", because it seems like a slightly arbitrary thing for the engine/core. I would rather see a "general attribute system", like some commenters on the pull request (PilzAdam, I think?) said.

Then again: eating is in the core (on_eat etc.), drowning is in the core or engine, so I'd say hunger should be handled the same. Just allow it to be disabled, overridden or modified (specifically, would need a minetest.conf setting – existing games and servers should not need to hunt down a "disable hunger again" mod).

As for the argument "it can be done by mods" that I read on github: there's a big difference between having several optional and probably conflicting mods for something (heck, I was planning a hunger mod of my own, since I have 90% of it in other mods anyway) and one true original canonical way of doing it. See the cross-dependencies between food and hunger mods, or the current chaos of mob frameworks due to (I think) the lack of "one true canonical mob framework", i.e. a builtin one.

So build it in, I say, the deeper the better. That way, all the mods around hunger have a common ground, which I'm sure will lead to more progress.

[Casimir]

If added to core, any subgame that wants a slightly different behavior will disable it anyway and write a lua mod. One could add all abilities to change values, but not the way it works.

We could instead provide some small core features that make writing hunger mods easier. E.g. a hunger value, a status bar, a callback when hunger changed. Most of it probably in lua, in builtin so it can be overwritten. This then can serve as a common standard for hunger mods. Or to say:

I would rather see a "general attribute system"

OT: Regarding mobs. That's the way I would go about mobs too. Write a pure framework, add missing features (that need to be in core) in core, and use builtin/mobs for standards.

Edit:
For Voxelgarden I already have a hunger mod that is working very nice to me, and I have no intentions to switch to other mechanics. The only thing that PR would help with this mod is, that I might not have to save the hunger status by my own (maybe). At the same time I would have to enforce enable_hunger = true the same way I have all liquids set to not drowning - to enable a different drowning.

[kaadmy]

[...]
I would rather see a "general attribute system", like some commenters on the pull request (PilzAdam, I think?) said.
[...]

I think that was me :)

I don't like having hunger built-in, it's a too specialized thing that mods should have control over.

[Evergreen]

I agree with kaadmy here, hunger is a bit too specialized to put in the minetest engine, and is something that not every game creator will want to use. Instead we should focus on giving game creators the tools necessary to create their own hunger system. The same thing could probably be said about drowning as well.

[Diamond knight]

i think hunger should be added, but as a mod in the default subgame, so it can be easily removable/readdable

[TenPlus1]

+1

[Sware]

i think hunger should be added, but as a mod in the default subgame, so it can be easily removable/readdable

this

when i played without hunger, i feel like in 2010, playing alpha - cute times

[BlockMen]

i think hunger should be added, but as a mod in the default subgame, so it can be easily removable/readdable

this

when i played without hunger, i feel like in 2010, playing alpha - cute times

When added as proposed in the pull request you could achive this even better, by unchecking an checkbox or by adding "enable_hunger = false" to your minetest.conf

[Minetestforfun]

+1
Hunger is a core feature, so add it. (to the engine, yes the engine. We are not stupid Rubenwardy, we know what we said...)

[rubenwardy]

A core feature doesn't mean it should be in core. In minetest_game, maybe.

[Napiophelios]

+1
Hunger is a core feature, so add it

[rubenwardy]

core refers to minetest/builtin, not minetest_game.

[Napiophelios]

Ruben, I do not find this poll misleading in the slightest bit; others might, but I do not.
Regardless of the particular wording used, I am voting to what is implied.
I think hunger should be in the minetest engine with the ability to disable if need be.