The Realm of 3D Mobs

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Gambit
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by Gambit » Sat Jun 23, 2012 05:19

I think it's okay, but again a lot of limbs. Also there seems to be more than four points per polygons.
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slasheree
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by slasheree » Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:44

Gambit wrote:I think it's okay, but again a lot of limbs. Also there seems to be more than four points per polygons.


I can't understand what's the problem with the polygons ? Can you tell me please ? O.o

[EDIT] If it's because of it's impact in the framerate, then they could make that option (1-2D models , 2-3D models poly-limited, 3-3D models with no poly limit [but still cubic like])

Nowadays every pc has a dual core, I can play recent games at 1280x1024 with 60fps just by turning the shadows off on my 250€ pc ._.
Last edited by slasheree on Sat Jun 23, 2012 13:38, edited 1 time in total.
 

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by slasheree » Sat Jun 23, 2012 17:48

Melkor wrote:mmmmm not good i dont like it


Y U no like ? ):
 

neo
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by neo » Sat Jun 23, 2012 23:12

slasheree wrote:Does this look like a good bear ?

Image



I think the head is a bit too big, the jaw could be accentuated, more triangular.
 

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by lesliev » Sun Jun 24, 2012 05:21

slasheree wrote:
Gambit wrote:I think it's okay, but again a lot of limbs. Also there seems to be more than four points per polygons.


I can't understand what's the problem with the polygons ? Can you tell me please ? O.o

[EDIT] If it's because of it's impact in the framerate, then they could make that option (1-2D models , 2-3D models poly-limited, 3-3D models with no poly limit [but still cubic like])

Nowadays every pc has a dual core, I can play recent games at 1280x1024 with 60fps just by turning the shadows off on my 250€ pc ._.


I also don't understand this paranoia about frame rates and polygons. Even my really old PC runs OpenArena with ease and each of the characters has around 1800 faces in it. Modern graphics cards and even software emulation can display that and much more without breaking a sweat.

If someone wants to play MT without mobs that will surely always be possible but really, sprites look really really really really lame. Especially when viewed from above.

Quake was properly 3D 16 years ago. The last time anyone used sprites in a "3D" environment was Rise of the Triads and that only worked because a person couldn't look up and down.
 

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by Gambit » Sun Jun 24, 2012 07:14

lesliev wrote:
slasheree wrote:
Gambit wrote:I think it's okay, but again a lot of limbs. Also there seems to be more than four points per polygons.


I can't understand what's the problem with the polygons ? Can you tell me please ? O.o

[EDIT] If it's because of it's impact in the framerate, then they could make that option (1-2D models , 2-3D models poly-limited, 3-3D models with no poly limit [but still cubic like])

Nowadays every pc has a dual core, I can play recent games at 1280x1024 with 60fps just by turning the shadows off on my 250€ pc ._.


I also don't understand this paranoia about frame rates and polygons. Even my really old PC runs OpenArena with ease and each of the characters has around 1800 faces in it. Modern graphics cards and even software emulation can display that and much more without breaking a sweat.

If someone wants to play MT without mobs that will surely always be possible but really, sprites look really really really really lame. Especially when viewed from above.

Quake was properly 3D 16 years ago. The last time anyone used sprites in a "3D" environment was Rise of the Triads and that only worked because a person couldn't look up and down.


It's not the graphic cards or frame rates, it's the engines. Even todays games are developed this way where each polygon is build using 3 points. (:
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by Jordach » Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:05

Hmm, you have a point good sir, but, missing the point of Gambit's models: simplistic is better than complication; see Mo Mobs Mod in Minecraft.
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by lesliev » Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:11

Gambit wrote: It's not the graphic cards or frame rates, it's the engines. Even todays games are developed this way where each polygon is build using 3 points. (:


Why is that a problem?
 

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by wokste » Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:21

I do not think we should have 2 versions (2D and 3D models). It will be double the work to make graphics. Therefore I suggest looking carefully whether 3D models would be a major preformance leak.

As far as my knowledge about 3D goes, there are 2 mayor tasks in trawing 3D models. First of all, the poly count. Each poly has to be drawn. As most of us know, the scene already contains at least 10.000 polygons. Therefore a few extra (30 per monster) will not harm it that much. Secondly, the animations require some calcluations. I think that for a decently complex model, this will be approximately 50 openGL commands (GLRotate and GLTranslate). I don't know how much this will cost, but I guess it will not be that much.

Given some guesswork, I think the drawing performance will go down by at most 10%. Of course, this depends on many factors, such as the complexity of the models and the number of monsters. Given this, I think we should do 3D models
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by slasheree » Sun Jun 24, 2012 13:33

wokste wrote:I do not think we should have 2 versions (2D and 3D models). It will be double the work to make graphics. Therefore I suggest looking carefully whether 3D models would be a major preformance leak.

As far as my knowledge about 3D goes, there are 2 mayor tasks in trawing 3D models. First of all, the poly count. Each poly has to be drawn. As most of us know, the scene already contains at least 10.000 polygons. Therefore a few extra (30 per monster) will not harm it that much. Secondly, the animations require some calcluations. I think that for a decently complex model, this will be approximately 50 openGL commands (GLRotate and GLTranslate). I don't know how much this will cost, but I guess it will not be that much.

Given some guesswork, I think the drawing performance will go down by at most 10%. Of course, this depends on many factors, such as the complexity of the models and the number of monsters. Given this, I think we should do 3D models


I think double the work wouldn't be much of a problem since everyone can help create models/sprites :)

[EDIT] Also, it would be good for old pc compatability
Last edited by slasheree on Sun Jun 24, 2012 13:34, edited 1 time in total.
 

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by Gambit » Sun Jun 24, 2012 18:46

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by Gambit » Sun Jun 24, 2012 20:34

slasheree wrote:


interesting O.o


What I was trying to say was the graphics card isn't the concern here, it's how the software draws the polygons. I'm not an expert in those terminologies, so it was difficult for me to explain it.

Borrowing the phrase between software and hardware; You can have the greatest hardware in the world, but if the software is written poorly, then it's just an expensive door stop.

And what I was meant to ask you was the models you made, where they triangular to help the engine draw them properly?

Example:
Image

Image
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by slasheree » Sun Jun 24, 2012 20:40

Gambit wrote:
slasheree wrote:


interesting O.o


What I was trying to say was the graphics card isn't the concern here, it's how the software draws the polygons. I'm not an expert in those terminologies, so it was difficult for me to explain it.

Borrowing the phrase between software and hardware; You can have the greatest hardware in the world, but if the software is written poorly, then it's just an expensive door stop.

And what I was meant to ask you was the models you made, where they triangular to help the engine draw them properly?

Example:
Image

Image


It's like the Valve engine (think of Left4Dead), I run it with graphics on max with full framerate, and some other games with different engine and worst graphics still lag my computer.
 

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by Gambit » Sun Jun 24, 2012 20:56

xD
Forgot performance issue, I'm not talking about performances. I'm talking about how scripts work.
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by slasheree » Sun Jun 24, 2012 21:10

Gambit wrote:xD
Forgot performance issue, I'm not talking about performances. I'm talking about how scripts work.


What about them ? XD
 

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by Gambit » Mon Jun 25, 2012 09:23

More Nyaa cat and some cake. :d

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slasheree
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by slasheree » Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:43

You have some Nyan Cat Syndrome or something ? ahahah
 

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by sfan5 » Tue Jun 26, 2012 15:42

So cute
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neo
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by neo » Sat Jun 30, 2012 13:16

hi,

Nodes are 10x10x10px,
usually textures are 2power based. 4 8 16 32 64 128 256...

I never understood why Gambit's texture were 250.
 

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by Josh » Sun Jul 01, 2012 03:28

Very nice 3d work there gambit! Maybe you could retexture your 3d mobs with cartoon style like your Minetoon pack
just a suggestion. Also i think the nyan cat looks cute!
Last edited by Josh on Sun Jul 01, 2012 03:29, edited 1 time in total.
 

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by MirceaKitsune » Sun Jul 01, 2012 13:14

Some amazing models there! Love the Nyan cat one (so cute) and the rest are of very good quality. I'm totally interested in all this. For my other thread about 3D models (if it's of any use) see here.

When will models work in MT, I'm dying for this feature! I'm very interested in using 3D models for players, mobs, and items alike (for those that aren't blocks or scripted vertice positions). Planning to use this in my own games as well. Irrlicht already supports several model formats, so I figure someone just needs to code the LUA hooks to render them in place.

For players and mobs, what I'd like to see is support for animated rigged models (Irrlicht support some weird formats, md3 is sadly a non-skeletal format). Features like animation blending would also be needed for those, so you can bend the player model based on looking up and down, or mining / hitting things (animates hands) while running (animates legs). Really hope all of this can happen soon.
 

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by Sturmegeist » Sun Jul 08, 2012 18:18

lalorobot wrote:Since nobody was doing it I decided to make the enderfreak for death dealer I can give away the .blend if you want
Image

Hmmmm, maybe there could be a mod someday to where you can play as your favorite minetest mob....*MAJOR HINT* ;)
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by lkjoel » Sun Jul 08, 2012 21:05

Gambit wrote:More Nyaa cat and some cake. :d

Image

Could you send me the .blend? I want to render that and set that as my wallpaper ;)
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