Making mgv7 the default mapgen for 0.4.15 (now done)

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Making mgv7 the default mapgen for 0.4.15 (now done)

by paramat » Fri Dec 09, 2016 05:01

I'm asking for support for this, if possible please add your comments to https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/4829

Anyone who has used Minetest for a while has tried the mapgens and knows which to use, the only way the default is important is concerning those new to the game and reviewers.
I make a daily check on all new Minetest videos on Youtube and all of those new to the game use the default mgv6. I guess when faced with the choice of mapgens they don't know what to do so just use the default, perhaps assuming the default has been set as being the mapgen most representative and most developed, our best work.

Obviously mgv6 is none of these:

It has hardcoded biomes and some hardcoded decorations and doesn't use the biome API.
It has 6 biomes instead of 12 plus iceberg, sand dune and swamp sub-biomes.
It lacks aspen, temperate pine and acacia trees, dry grasses, logs, large cacti, bushes and coral reefs.
It has no sandstone.
Hills don't pass y = 47 and there are no mountains or overhangs.
There are no rivers.
The terrain and biomes become repetitve on a smaller scale, travel 500 nodes and you've seen everything.

It drives me nuts to see all these people missing our best work and not getting the best impression, and making videos that others watch.
So, even if you have no personal preference please support to give a better impression of Minetest.
Last edited by paramat on Tue Dec 13, 2016 00:44, edited 1 time in total.
 

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Re: Making mgv7 the default mapgen for 0.4.15

by Spaghetti Developer » Fri Dec 09, 2016 16:49

I'm okay in putting mapgen v7 by default, because it is more advanced, generates beautiful maps, works very well, then what sense does it keep the v6 default? same thing the visual range, with settings at 100! I use 300 with an inexpensive PC and I have no problem, but I can see the map without fog at 5 steps.

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Re: Making mgv7 the default mapgen for 0.4.15

by Mainpage » Sat Dec 10, 2016 17:03

I concur that mg7 appears to be a more advantageous choice for the default map generation algorithm.
Sometimes in minetest I get the feeling that all terrain looks the same. I like exploring maps, so if I don't find unique looking terrain, I'm going to simply get bored.
I think mg7 helps combat this problem by generating interesting mountains and rivers.
So I give a +1.
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Re: Making mgv7 the default mapgen for 0.4.15

by ExeterDad » Sat Dec 10, 2016 19:01

I'm working on a mgv7 map right this very moment and am very pleased with it. I do however wish there was more documentation on it, and how to tweak. I just can't have that jungle right there!
I like how there are believable sea level rivers that allow boat rides pretty much anywhere you feel you need to go. It's a great way to get that exploring done. And of course I agree with all the features and advantages mentioned above.

So... it has my vote as default.
 

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Re: Making mgv7 the default mapgen for 0.4.15

by Alcyone » Mon Dec 12, 2016 19:52

+1 v7 by default

I'm a bit new on Minetest, I tried to understand how it work and as a lot of player probably I said to myself "Ok, it seems to have a hierarchy between mapgens and the wiki says "v7: An in-development map generator", so let's use the stable v6".
Then I understood that, above hierarchy and obviously evolution, each mapgen is different and that's also why they are kept to let more choices if a player want the strange v5 generation or v6 "minimalistic one".
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Re: Making mgv7 the default mapgen for 0.4.15

by paramat » Tue Dec 13, 2016 00:44

The wiki is out of date and needs updating now.
V7 is now the default.
 

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Re: Making mgv7 the default mapgen for 0.4.15

by hajo » Tue Dec 13, 2016 10:24

paramat wrote:The wiki is out of date and needs updating now. V7 is now the default.
Done.

BTW, for the fractal mapgen, I guess the seed-value selects the type of fractal to be used ?

Looking for "formula" and "julia" in mapgen_fractal.cpp, it seems likely.
But the interface for selecting a mapgen doesn't give any help/feedback to the user.
 

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Re: Making mgv7 the default mapgen for 0.4.15 (now done)

by paramat » Wed Dec 14, 2016 00:49

No only 'fractal' selects the fractal type https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/minetest.conf.example#L1362
The world seed only affects the seabed shape, caves, biomes, ores and decorations.
 

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Re: Making mgv7 the default mapgen for 0.4.15

by Alcyone » Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:54

hajo wrote:
paramat wrote:The wiki is out of date and needs updating now. V7 is now the default.
Done.


Thank you :) I already noticed that some part of the Wiki really need an update but I don't know enough on Minetest to take the risk to improve the Wiki.
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Re: Making mgv7 the default mapgen for 0.4.15 (now done)

by TARD » Thu Dec 15, 2016 15:01

How do I run v7 from a server i made with cmake and git? All I know is how to minetest/bin/ .minetestserver, and that gives 6.
 

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Re: Making mgv7 the default mapgen for 0.4.15 (now done)

by ExeterDad » Thu Dec 15, 2016 17:34

TARD wrote:How do I run v7 from a server i made with cmake and git? All I know is how to minetest/bin/ .minetestserver, and that gives 6.

As far as I know there isn't any flags you can pass to the minetestserver bin upon launch to create a world from scratch. I usually just take the lazy way out. I create the mgv7 world in singleplayer and upload the world folder without running it first. This will prevent you from having to upload the map and player files.
 

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Re: Making mgv7 the default mapgen for 0.4.15 (now done)

by paramat » Fri Dec 16, 2016 00:59

> All I know is how to minetest/bin/ .minetestserver, and that gives 6.

It uses the default mapgen, so will now use mgv7.
 

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Re: Making mgv7 the default mapgen for 0.4.15

by TumeniNodes » Fri Dec 16, 2016 03:43

paramat wrote:The wiki is out of date and needs updating now.
V7 is now the default.


Cool! Now you can start on mgV8 ; ) "mgflat..., with ridges...."
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Re: Making mgv7 the default mapgen for 0.4.15

by GreenDimond » Fri Dec 16, 2016 06:15

TumeniNodes wrote:Now you can start on mgV8


Oh boy! A V8 drink mapgen! This should be good! xD
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Re: Making mgv7 the default mapgen for 0.4.15 (now done)

by TumeniNodes » Fri Dec 16, 2016 16:00

The same as a V8 goes with muscle cars..., V8 can also go with a muscle map :D
Flat gen gives the perfect (and very easy to understand and use) options for adding hills/mountains, as well as the steepness of the slope going into water... In my opinion (as I've mentioned to paramat before) is if the ridges settings from V7 were able to be added to flatgen, it would make it an extremely popular mg
One of the only slightly downsides I have with V7 is due to my own preferred settings which calls for using "eased" on a couple of items, but this creates a slow generation of the map. That's why I wish for flatgen with rivers(ridges). Life would be complete.
V7 would still be the kicka$$ mapgen it is. But having V7 and this V8 I imagine only in my head, literally everyone's needs related to terrain would be met. And those who like flat, don't need to do anything, those who want some nice, sweeping hills, mountains, river banks could simply tinker with V8's options. Those who prefer more intense terrain with cliffs, kragly mountains etc... V7 is that and far more. So, in theory..., "mg_flat" would simply be renamed "V8" or maybe even the "flat_8" like some of the powerful old lead sleds of the past used to have under their hoods https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat-eight_engine
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Re: Making mgv7 the default mapgen for 0.4.15 (now done)

by ExeterDad » Fri Dec 16, 2016 16:17

@TumeniNodes - With a little bit of parameter tweaking, you can eliminate the "rugged mountains" in mgv7 and still have the ridges and rivers and extra biomes.
 

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Re: Making mgv7 the default mapgen for 0.4.15 (now done)

by TumeniNodes » Fri Dec 16, 2016 16:31

ExeterDad wrote:@TumeniNodes - With a little bit of parameter tweaking, you can eliminate the "rugged mountains" in mgv7 and still have the ridges and rivers and extra biomes.


Yes, I know, I've been tweaking V7 a lot for a little while now. I'm definitely not knocking V7, it's awesome and I know a ton of work has been put into it, and congratulations are definitely due to paramat and others who worked so hard on it for so long now... it definitely belongs as default.
The settings I use in V7 just really slow things down because I used "eased" I think on 2 occasions, which makes the gen work really hard. V7 is a powerful mapgen so using "eased" settings can be like trying to use a tie-wrap to decrease the power of water shooting from a fire-hose, (it's gonna have it's downsides) ; )
When I set a new world with my settings, even with no mods added... it takes quite a while for the world to load up.
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Re: Making mgv7 the default mapgen for 0.4.15 (now done)

by TARD » Mon Dec 19, 2016 03:23

ExeterDad wrote:
TARD wrote:How do I run v7 from a server i made with cmake and git? All I know is how to minetest/bin/ .minetestserver, and that gives 6.

As far as I know there isn't any flags you can pass to the minetestserver bin upon launch to create a world from scratch. I usually just take the lazy way out. I create the mgv7 world in singleplayer and upload the world folder without running it first. This will prevent you from having to upload the map and player files.


That worked, thank
 

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Re: Making mgv7 the default mapgen for 0.4.15 (now done)

by Spaghetti Developer » Mon Dec 19, 2016 09:36

TumeniNodes wrote:
ExeterDad wrote:@TumeniNodes - With a little bit of parameter tweaking, you can eliminate the "rugged mountains" in mgv7 and still have the ridges and rivers and extra biomes.


Yes, I know, I've been tweaking V7 a lot for a little while now. I'm definitely not knocking V7, it's awesome and I know a ton of work has been put into it, and congratulations are definitely due to paramat and others who worked so hard on it for so long now... it definitely belongs as default.
The settings I use in V7 just really slow things down because I used "eased" I think on 2 occasions, which makes the gen work really hard. V7 is a powerful mapgen so using "eased" settings can be like trying to use a tie-wrap to decrease the power of water shooting from a fire-hose, (it's gonna have it's downsides) ; )
When I set a new world with my settings, even with no mods added... it takes quite a while for the world to load up.



You are definitely right! Mostly I use the flat map, I'd Have the flat clean and flat (no craters). I said to Paramat that I have too much vegetation biomes, too many trees! Weights map unnecessarily. A lower vegetation density, and features that you have listed, would make the perfect flat map for building!
 

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Re: Making mgv7 the default mapgen for 0.4.15 (now done)

by Punk » Sun Dec 25, 2016 08:14

It is difficult to find wood in the start, but is beautiful.

Is it still 60k³ size world?
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Re: Making mgv7 the default mapgen for 0.4.15 (now done)

by paramat » Mon Dec 26, 2016 05:46

Remember there are now bushes in the grasslands, the bush stem can be crafted to a wood plank.
We wanted to add a sense of adventure, sometimes you may need to travel 1000+ nodes to find the first bush or tree. Mgv6 and Minecraft are too small-scale.
If you need wood quickly, for example if you have aggressive mobs, you can try a few different world seeds until you spawn close to wood.

World size is unchanged.
 

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Re: Making mgv7 the default mapgen for 0.4.15 (now done)

by BlueTangs Rock » Fri Jan 13, 2017 22:42

Wait so there's coral reefs in Default MineTest's newest mapgen,or am I misunderstanding completely?
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Re: Making mgv7 the default mapgen for 0.4.15 (now done)

by paramat » Sat Jan 14, 2017 20:53

Yes in all mapgens except mgv6, in shallow water in red stone desert, savanna or rainforest, it's quite rare.
 

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