Rename mapgens

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Wuzzy
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Rename mapgens

by Wuzzy » Wed Aug 30, 2017 15:18

I think some of the mapgen names from the user's point of view (I don't care how they are called internally) are really bad and I think they should be renamed.

The names “v5”, “v6” and “v7” no longer make really sense as these names suggest a versioning scheme and makes it seem as if v5 and v6 are “legacy” mapgens which is totally NOT true. As all mapgens are now developed independently anyway, the concept of a “mapgen version” doesn't really make any sense. They are now only historically relevant.

The name “singlenode” is terribly awkward. My first thought when I saw it? It's an empty world with a single block (a.k.a. node) directly below spawn. Not exactly true.

Criteria for good mapgen names:
  • Descriptive instead of technical
  • Fits well to a defining feature of the mapgen
  • Unique
  • Easy to remember
  • “rings a bell”

Here is my suggestion to rename the mapgens:

  • v5: Bloblands (“blob” because of the characteristic overhanging or floating blobs (near-spherelike landmasses), “lands” because it's still a landscape and not floating blobs in outer space)
  • v6: Hills (hills are almost everywhere)
  • v7: Widelands (the first mapgen with a seriously large-scale landscape)
  • singlenode: Empty (much more obvious)
  • All other mapgen names should be capitalized (e.g. “valleys” → “Valleys”) because English names are rarely lowercase

Do you agree with my suggestions? Or can you even suggest better names?
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Re: Rename mapgens

by Sergey » Wed Aug 30, 2017 15:59

I agree.

I always wonder why we need old v5 and v6 mapgens if there is v7 already? For those who love retro bugs?

And we need to rename the game itself!

WE NEED TO RENAME EVERYTHING IF WE WANT TO MAKE THE GAME MORE POPULAR!

EDIT: And forum engine as well! phpBB is old software. Say hello to "+1 button" topic.
Last edited by Sergey on Wed Aug 30, 2017 16:14, edited 2 times in total.
 

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Re: Rename mapgens

by sorcerykid » Wed Aug 30, 2017 16:07

Maybe name the mapgens after the original author. Like mgv7 could be titled "Kwolek" and later incarnations with a suffix such as "Kwolek Mk II" or some other unique designation (so it is finally possible to distinguish when the algorithm is altered for those concerned with map integrity). Just a thought.
 

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Re: Rename mapgens

by Sergey » Wed Aug 30, 2017 16:10

sorcerykid wrote:Maybe name the mapgens after the original author. Like mgv7 could be titled "Kwolek" and later incarnations with a suffix such as "Kwolek Mk II" or some other unique designation (so it is finally possible to distinguish when the algorithm is altered for those concerned with map integrity). Just a thought.

Bad thought. What if author abandon the project? What then? Maybe you want rename MT to "Perttu Ahola Game"?
 

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Re: Rename mapgens

by v-rob » Wed Aug 30, 2017 16:29

I don't like the idea of "Hills" for version 6. I would prefer a longer name -- Simple nouns don't sound very good as names in my opinion. But something along the line of hill would be good.

Flat should be called Flatlands, and fractal could be Fractalworld, or just plain Fractal.
 

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Re: Rename mapgens

by Wuzzy » Wed Aug 30, 2017 16:49

I always wonder why we need old v5 and v6 mapgens if there is v7 already? For those who love retro bugs?

The misconception is that v5 and v6 are legacy mapgens which should never be used.
v5 and v6 are NOT legacy mapgens. NOT AT ALL! The names come only from weird historic reasons. ALL mapgens still receive bugfixes and improvements. Ironically, our current modern v5 mapgen came in after v6 and even after v7! See here for the strange but interesting history of our mapgens: http://wiki.minetest.net/Map_Generator_Evolution

sorcerykid wrote:Maybe name the mapgens after the original author.

NO. These names would not be descriptive at all and would only add to the confusion.

WE NEED TO RENAME EVERYTHING IF WE WANT TO MAKE THE GAME MORE POPULAR!

Isn't this a little bit extreme? xD Not all names are bad.

I don't like the idea of "Hills" for version 6. I would prefer a longer name

Brainstorming for better names is what this thread is about.

Flat should be called Flatlands, and fractal could be Fractalworld, or just plain Fractal.

I couldn't care less. I think the names “Flat” and “Fractal” are good enough already so I don't see a reason to change the names (apart from proper capitalization).
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Re: Rename mapgens

by Sergey » Wed Aug 30, 2017 16:58

Wuzzy wrote:
Flat should be called Flatlands, and fractal could be Fractalworld, or just plain Fractal.

I couldn't care less. I think the names “Flat” and “Fractal” are good enough already so I don't see a reason to change the names (apart from proper capitalization).

Mapgens must have short names. If you want more description — tooltips must be added with more description when you hover it with mouse.
 

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Re: Rename mapgens

by Wuzzy » Wed Aug 30, 2017 17:12

New name idea for v6: Hillside
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Re: Rename mapgens

by Sergey » Thu Aug 31, 2017 13:07

Wuzzy wrote:
WE NEED TO RENAME EVERYTHING IF WE WANT TO MAKE THE GAME MORE POPULAR!

Isn't this a little bit extreme? xD Not all names are bad.

No. I am sure we need extreme actions. We need revolution.
Later I will explain what I mean.
 

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Re: Rename mapgens

by toby109tt » Thu Aug 31, 2017 13:46

I agree
i'm the co-dev and lead artist of farlands
 

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Re: Rename mapgens

by Sergey » Fri Sep 01, 2017 22:53

Sergey wrote:I am sure we need extreme actions. We need revolution.
Later I will explain what I mean.

OK, I explain.

We need:

1) New name for game. Many many words were already said about why current name is a crap. In short, "test" part implies we do not actually play game, but we test and debug. In other words, our "game" is not about digging dirt but about digging C/Lua code looking for bugs.

2) New names for mapgens. v5, v6, v7. What is it all about?
First fail — consecutive numbers that imply it is version numbers of some program that is developing in time. BUT IT IS NOT. These numbers are just similar names of different independent programs.

Second fail — these names say absolutely nothing about what they are about. It is like program that read file would be named "x7", and other program that print current date would be called "a5". Nonsense.

3) New names for itemstrings.
Example from here:
default:stonebrick
default:stone_block
...
default:jungletree
default:junglewood
default:jungleleaves
default:junglesapling

default:pine_tree
default:pine_wood
default:pine_needles
default:pine_sapling


WTF? Do we have to use underscores to separate words in compound expressions or not? Is it a requirement? Or let everybody name it depending on how his left heel feels today?

We need standard that developers must follow.

4) New forum engine. phpBB is old software written in year 2000. It is not so convenient today.

I expressed my thoughts before. Here is my copy&paste:
I would like to have ability to:
• like (vote up) post
• dislike (vote down) post
• report post
• use hashtags (make words as keywords) to search for all posts containing them
• scroll down instead of pagination
• sort posts by different criteria (by time (old/new posts first), by votes (more useful posts first), and so on)

I would like to see best parts of social networks and stackoverflow.com voting system.

There are already complaints about lack of +1 button that cause stream of unnecessary posts like "thanks, dude" in which helpful and informative posts are simply drown.

I also want voting system for posts and especially for topics. For example, I want to know what mods are most polular or just best. With voting system I could just sort topics (for mods) by rating in descending order. And all popular mods will be right here in the top of the page. No need to paginate, scroll, paginate, scroll, and read, read, read what they are all about. Same for texture packs.

5) System to install/update/remove mods and texture packs.

For example, in most GNU/Linux operating systems there is software manager that automatically works with corresponding repositories. Why not implement similar system in MT? It is very convenient!

For example, I could view all available mods right in the game's window — view them, read about them, preview screenshot and, of course, INSTALL THEM WITH ONE CLICK (it automatically downloads archive from forum or github, unpack it, and create necessary folder where it should).

Analogously, I could uninstall any mod I have if I don't need it anymore WITH ONE CLICK.

This manager should also automatically update installed mods with there are new version of them.

WE NEED REVOLUTION
 

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Re: Rename mapgens

by Wuzzy » Sat Sep 02, 2017 01:03

Well, thanks. Regarding mapgen names, that's basically what I said. And yes, these are the reasons why I don't like the names v5, v6 and v7. They just don't make any sense anymore.

I ignore the other things as off-topic. :P
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Re: Rename mapgens

by paramat » Tue Sep 05, 2017 04:40

Singlenode is air only by default, it is designed to consist of any defined node, so 'empty' is not suitable.
'Singlenode' is accurate because 'air' is a node too, the world is uniform and consists of only a single defined node.
An air world with a floating solid block would therefore be 'doublenode'.
Something like 'Uniform' may be more suitable but i can't see a good enough reason to change it, if players misunderstand they find out what it's like soon enough.

I agree that from now on there's no point in using 'Version X' as mapgen names, as we now have multiple mapgens and none supersede any other. There's a danger that players may think the lower numbers are 'worse' or should not be used. So i will be renaming my new core mapgen from mgv8 to 'watershed' or something.

The names V5 V6 V7 are very well known and there's no good reason to change them. We use the public name as the in-code name so lots of code would need changing too.
 

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Re: Rename mapgens

by Linuxdirk » Tue Sep 05, 2017 04:47

paramat wrote:We use the public name as the in-code name so lots of code would need changing too.

Or ... you could keep using whatever name you want in the code and change the "public name" separately from that.
 

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Re: Rename mapgens

by Wuzzy » Wed Sep 06, 2017 20:11

I agree that from now on there's no point in using 'Version X' as mapgen names, as we now have multiple mapgens and none supersede any other. There's a danger that players may think the lower numbers are 'worse' or should not be used. So i will be renaming my new core mapgen from mgv8 to 'watershed' or something.

Yaaay! Another core mapgen! :-) Watershed sounds cool. I am looking forward to it.


The names V5 V6 V7 are very well known and there's no good reason to change them.

Of course there is! The names are boring, non-descriptive and highly misleading. The names really just carry historic baggage but they don't make any sense. Also I doubt that these names are actually well known. First of all, there are still new players coming to MT so your argument already fails for them.
And only a few players really know the strange history behind these names, e.g that modern v5 came after v7, etc. And you already said yourselves the names are suggestive.
All this together is a very strong reason to change the names. We just need to find good names.

Also, I don't see a reason why the code names must be perfectly in sync with the player visible names. Code names rarely match with user strings anyway, so why are you so strict here? We also don't do this for itemstrings. I think coders should be smart enough to understand this.
Note that I don't care how the mapgens are called internally, choose whatever name you like.



Singlenode is air only by default, it is designed to consist of any defined node, so 'empty' is not suitable.

This explanation behind the name is far-fetched for anyone not in the dev team.

The user can't even change the node type with any setting (you need a mod for that), for from the user perspective, this mapgen will almost always be empty.

I still propose “Empty” as a name because this mapgen generates empty worlds by default (i.e. almost always). The fact that you can change the node to set everywhere can be seen as a bonus feature.
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Re: Rename mapgens

by paramat » Fri Sep 08, 2017 02:03

> This explanation behind the name is far-fetched

Erm, no, players know what nodes are, and this mapgen consists entirely of a 'single node'.

> The user can't even change the node type with any setting (you need a mod for that)

There are many possibilities in MT that are only possible through using a mod, doing so is not considered to be a hack or something unusual.

I recommend people don't waste their time discussing this, as the names are not going to be changed, it's a lot of work for no good reason.
 

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Re: Rename mapgens

by Linuxdirk » Fri Sep 08, 2017 05:17

paramat wrote:the names are not going to be changed

Is this an official statement endorsed by the whole core dev team or is this just another personal statement ambiguously worded to make it look official?
 

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Re: Rename mapgens

by farooqkz » Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:49

It's more than 1 year that I'm playing Minetest and before this post I was thinking v5(and now v6) is legacy!
 

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Re: Rename mapgens

by Sergey » Sat Sep 09, 2017 13:24

farooqkz wrote:It's more than 1 year that I'm playing Minetest and before this post I was thinking v5(and now v6) is legacy!

Ha! I doubt there are begginers who would think otherwise.

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Re: Rename mapgens

by Gerald » Sat Sep 09, 2017 14:09

paramat wrote:[...] it's a lot of work for no good reason.

If this is a lot of work, the design of the UI must be horrible.


I agree with Wuzzy, something needs to be changed, but a name like 'Hills' sounds like a selection of biomes.
'A picture says more than a thousand words'; Maybe it should be possible to assign a preview picture to the mapgens like the background pictures of the games.
 

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Re: Rename mapgens

by Sergey » Sat Sep 09, 2017 15:09

Gerald wrote:Maybe it should be possible to assign a preview picture to the mapgens like the background pictures of the games.

I agree. Along with adequate and descriptive name some example screenshots should be supplied.
 

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Re: Rename mapgens

by Wuzzy » Sat Sep 09, 2017 16:12

Here are some screenshots for you:
https://wiki.minetest.net/Map_generator#Gallery
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Re: Rename mapgens

by Sergey » Sat Sep 09, 2017 16:18

Wuzzy wrote:Here are some screenshots for you:
https://wiki.minetest.net/Map_generator#Gallery

It is not for me. It is for the game. Once player select mapgen some screenshots should be displayed in window nearby.
 

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Re: Rename mapgens

by azekill_DIABLO » Sun Sep 10, 2017 12:04

Sergey wrote:And we need to rename the game itself!

I think i had an heart attack. This topic is harder to kill than a mob in agon II.
 

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