Multicolor lighting

Reedych
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Multicolor lighting

by Reedych » Sun Nov 12, 2017 15:45

I wanna multicolor torches, but I think there's no Subj in minetest engine. Is yes?
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Re: Multicolor lighting

by Inocudom » Sun Nov 12, 2017 16:55

I am hoping that lukeisthebest will work on that if he can get Minetest 0.5 Dev compiled. He has experience with shaders.
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Re: Multicolor lighting

by philipbenr » Thu Nov 16, 2017 06:30

Currently there is no multicolor lighting. There are some workarounds, using the same principle that makes water look blue when one is in it, but that A. would be a pretty bad way of doing it (wouldn't look great), and B. would make going between colors (red to blue) look weird.

Maybe sometime during the 0.5 lifecycle we'll see it. See Inocudom's comment for that.
 

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Re: Multicolor lighting

by paramat » Sat Nov 18, 2017 01:53

True coloured light is unlikely or very distant.
 

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Re: Multicolor lighting

by ThomasMonroe » Sun Nov 19, 2017 03:24

paramat wrote:True coloured light is unlikely or very distant.

Nevertheless it should be a goal to be working towards.
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Re: Multicolor lighting

by voxelproof » Mon Nov 20, 2017 16:14

ThomasMonroe wrote:
paramat wrote:True coloured light is unlikely or very distant.

Nevertheless it should be a goal to be working towards.


I don't want to reply instead of developers, I'm new at the forum and really don't know much about development logistics, but I suppose that the proper 'goal' should be maintenance of a good unbuggy, efficient engine that makes modding relatively easy. Visual fireworks should be left to skilled modders imho. Such extra, non-essential features require a large amount of time and work that could be directed into more urgent improvements.
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Re: Multicolor lighting

by paramat » Tue Nov 21, 2017 00:20

ThomasMonroe wrote:
paramat wrote:True coloured light is unlikely or very distant.

Nevertheless it should be a goal to be working towards.

It's not reallly something you 'work towards' over a long period of time, if it's decided on it will be done.

It's doubtful whether we 'should'. It's been discussed deeply many times and never done. It would require a complete rewrite of lighting and it would require a new world format that is twice as big, so your world databases could double in file size. The extra mapnode size means lower game performance and more RAM use.
Not worth it for a minor novelty in my opinion.
 

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Re: Multicolor lighting

by neko259 » Mon Nov 27, 2017 18:43

paramat wrote:
ThomasMonroe wrote:
paramat wrote:True coloured light is unlikely or very distant.

Nevertheless it should be a goal to be working towards.

It's not reallly something you 'work towards' over a long period of time, if it's decided on it will be done.

It's doubtful whether we 'should'. It's been discussed deeply many times and never done. It would require a complete rewrite of lighting and it would require a new world format that is twice as big, so your world databases could double in file size. The extra mapnode size means lower game performance and more RAM use.
Not worth it for a minor novelty in my opinion.

Why is lighting stored in the map? I thought it is a node parameter which is defined by its definition and the nodes around it. If it cannot be changed in-game, it should be just computed when the nodes are loaded, not stored somewhere.
 

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Re: Multicolor lighting

by Linuxdirk » Mon Nov 27, 2017 20:13

Reedych wrote:I wanna multicolor torches, but I think there's no Subj in minetest engine. Is yes?

Absolutely possible with Irrlicht, but not implemented in how Minetest uses Irrlicht, and since paramat is against it this would never be implemented.
 

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Re: Multicolor lighting

by paramat » Fri Dec 01, 2017 03:40

> since paramat is against it this would never be implemented.

Nonsense.
 

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Re: Multicolor lighting

by azekill_DIABLO » Tue Dec 05, 2017 19:33

Linuxdirk wrote:Like all the other things that are not in the game because you're against.

I don't wanna be rude but that true. When a core develloper says niet the whole progress is locked.
 

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Re: Multicolor lighting

by philipbenr » Wed Dec 06, 2017 00:08

@Linuxdirk

Out of curiosity, how active are you on IRC/github/all other non-forums forms of communication? Because I'm sure its not just paramat that's making these decisions...

https://www.minetest.net/development/ wrote:Contributions are approved if [at least] two members of the core team agree on them.


It appears there is a structure to the additions and even more so for modifications, so I don't think you can blame everything on paramat.

@azekill_DIABLO:

azekill_DIABLO wrote:
Linuxdirk wrote:Like all the other things that are not in the game because you're against.

I don't wanna be rude but that true. When a core develloper says niet the whole progress is locked.


Just keep in mind, the developer community for Minetest is completely volunteers. If someone is against adding something, but it is instead added, they can just quit because they don't want to work with that feature or whatnot. Which I don't doubt has happened in some way, shape, or form before. Better safe than sorry would be a good way to put it. I would compare the Minetest development more to a Linux distribution than a regular game because of this. They have to make sure everything works decently well and everybody can work with the engine. Personal preference does play into this, but they are the developers, and they will have reasons for most all of their choices.

Seeing how devoted to the forums you are, I am pretty sure you won't be going anywhere anytime soon, so what's the rush for progress? Its nice yes, but being patient with the developers will likely help more than complaints or comments about lack of features.
 

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Re: Multicolor lighting

by ThomasMonroe » Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:51

I agree there, but there have been times where I have suggested things and get a flat no without much of an explanation.

But that could have been bcs they were busy :P
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Re: Multicolor lighting

by jas » Wed Dec 06, 2017 13:10

philipbenr wrote:
https://www.minetest.net/development/ wrote:Contributions are approved if [at least] two members of the core team agree on them.


Yeah, but if it's a dev PR it's an automatic +1. Any disapproval is a -1. So as soon as a non-dev submits, and paramat :thumbsdowns:, the PR is at -1 and doesn't look as good. That's my impression, anyway, and I'm sure there's a good reason, probably lack of time/energy. Paramat does a lot of work to organize the trackers for both minetest_game and minetest.

Ps. PRs I like: sound offset, preserve metadata for dropped items, and probably some others too. OMG HOW COULD I FORGET BINDABLE MOUSE BUTTONS? This one has bugs, though, so isn't as good of an example: #6537 (+patch)

PPs. Paramat may be quick to -1, and slow to +1; but I think that's not a bad thing.
 

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Re: Multicolor lighting

by azekill_DIABLO » Wed Dec 06, 2017 16:41

philipbenr wrote:Just keep in mind, the developer community for Minetest is completely volunteers. If someone is against adding something, but it is instead added, they can just quit because they don't want to work with that feature or whatnot. Which I don't doubt has happened in some way, shape, or form before. Better safe than sorry would be a good way to put it. I would compare the Minetest development more to a Linux distribution than a regular game because of this. They have to make sure everything works decently well and everybody can work with the engine. Personal preference does play into this, but they are the developers, and they will have reasons for most all of their choices.

Seeing how devoted to the forums you are, I am pretty sure you won't be going anywhere anytime soon, so what's the rush for progress? Its nice yes, but being patient with the developers will likely help more than complaints or comments about lack of features.

It's open-source ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I didn't expected us to work like Micro$oft
 

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Re: Multicolor lighting

by rubenwardy » Wed Dec 06, 2017 17:15

I'd love to see this, but it needs to be done carefully to avoid performance impact
 

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Re: Multicolor lighting

by Shara » Wed Dec 06, 2017 17:23

I don't consider coloured lighting a mere novelty. The difference it can make when done well is huge.

It's been top of the list of things I most want to see since I first started with MT, and I still keep hoping a good method will be found to handle it.
 

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Re: Multicolor lighting

by v-rob » Wed Dec 06, 2017 22:27

I want colored light to work when light goes through stained glass and such and changes color. It would be amazing to see light streaming through huge windows.
 

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Re: Multicolor lighting

by ThomasMonroe » Wed Dec 06, 2017 22:59

Once shadows get implemented, it would not be so hard to add something like that because the framework would be there.
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Re: Multicolor lighting

by azekill_DIABLO » Thu Dec 07, 2017 16:45

surely. But for now light is stored in maps and defined in a such way it is hard to add such.
 

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Re: Multicolor lighting

by Sires » Fri Dec 08, 2017 19:42

ThomasMonroe wrote:Once shadows get implemented, it would not be so hard to add something like that because the framework would be there.


Excellent notation
Nothing to declare

For the ones reading this, expect a new minetest game soon ;-)

Also, Sires is not pronouncied like Siri, it's from Sir, use he not she(also not it, I'm not a thing :P).

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Re: Multicolor lighting

by paramat » Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:17

> Like all the other things that are not in the game because you're against.

All zero of them, because by myself i can't stop anything, it takes 2+ disapprovals to reject something.
Many PRs are merged that i oppose.
If something wasn't added it was because other devs also disapproved.
Please stop being unpleasant.

> but there have been times where I have suggested things and get a flat no without much of an explanation.

We always provide an explanation, or at least i do.

> So as soon as a non-dev submits, and paramat :thumbsdowns:, the PR is at -1 and doesn't look as good.

If 1 dev disapproves a PR that has no effect on other devs' opinions of it, and doesn't reduce the chance of other devs approving it.

> Paramat may be quick to -1, and slow to +1

-1s are inevitably more common than +1s because this is FOSS, so we have a huge amount of suggestions (currently 457) (everyone can contribute or suggest) while also having severely limited dev time (unpaid so in spare time, and most devs are adults who work or study full time). So we inevitably have to say 'no' a lot and prioritise. Unfortunately some don't understand this situation and become negative about devs (not you jas).
 

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Re: Multicolor lighting

by azekill_DIABLO » Sun Dec 10, 2017 15:10

Maybe we should just have a totally unoficial version of the game where everything is more or less mreged and then applied to the regular game if okay... Like a dev-testing-beta branch :D It would avoid paramat to be unjustly lapidated by the community. he makes a lot of good things for minetest, but most of us have the bad habit to only see the negative when he is against a pull request for example! We shouldn't do that.
 

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Re: Multicolor lighting

by Sires » Sun Dec 10, 2017 15:54

azekill_DIABLO wrote:Maybe we should just have a totally unoficial version of the game where everything is more or less mreged and then applied to the regular game if okay... Like a dev-testing-beta branch :D It would avoid paramat to be unjustly lapidated by the community. he makes a lot of good things for minetest, but most of us have the bad habit to only see the negative when he is against a pull request for example! We shouldn't do that.

It's about time!(aka +1)
Nothing to declare

For the ones reading this, expect a new minetest game soon ;-)

Also, Sires is not pronouncied like Siri, it's from Sir, use he not she(also not it, I'm not a thing :P).

**SORY MAY BED ANGLISH**
 

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