Multicolor lighting

Reedych
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Multicolor lighting

by Reedych » Post

I wanna multicolor torches, but I think there's no Subj in minetest engine. Is yes?
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Inocudom
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Re: Multicolor lighting

by Inocudom » Post

I am hoping that lukeisthebest will work on that if he can get Minetest 0.5 Dev compiled. He has experience with shaders.
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Re: Multicolor lighting

by philipbenr » Post

Currently there is no multicolor lighting. There are some workarounds, using the same principle that makes water look blue when one is in it, but that A. would be a pretty bad way of doing it (wouldn't look great), and B. would make going between colors (red to blue) look weird.

Maybe sometime during the 0.5 lifecycle we'll see it. See Inocudom's comment for that.

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paramat
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Re: Multicolor lighting

by paramat » Post

True coloured light is unlikely or very distant.

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Re: Multicolor lighting

by ThomasMonroe » Post

paramat wrote:True coloured light is unlikely or very distant.
Nevertheless it should be a goal to be working towards.
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Re: Multicolor lighting

by voxelproof » Post

ThomasMonroe wrote:
paramat wrote:True coloured light is unlikely or very distant.
Nevertheless it should be a goal to be working towards.
I don't want to reply instead of developers, I'm new at the forum and really don't know much about development logistics, but I suppose that the proper 'goal' should be maintenance of a good unbuggy, efficient engine that makes modding relatively easy. Visual fireworks should be left to skilled modders imho. Such extra, non-essential features require a large amount of time and work that could be directed into more urgent improvements.
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paramat
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Re: Multicolor lighting

by paramat » Post

ThomasMonroe wrote:
paramat wrote:True coloured light is unlikely or very distant.
Nevertheless it should be a goal to be working towards.
It's not reallly something you 'work towards' over a long period of time, if it's decided on it will be done.

It's doubtful whether we 'should'. It's been discussed deeply many times and never done. It would require a complete rewrite of lighting and it would require a new world format that is twice as big, so your world databases could double in file size. The extra mapnode size means lower game performance and more RAM use.
Not worth it for a minor novelty in my opinion.

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neko259
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Re: Multicolor lighting

by neko259 » Post

paramat wrote:
ThomasMonroe wrote:
paramat wrote:True coloured light is unlikely or very distant.
Nevertheless it should be a goal to be working towards.
It's not reallly something you 'work towards' over a long period of time, if it's decided on it will be done.

It's doubtful whether we 'should'. It's been discussed deeply many times and never done. It would require a complete rewrite of lighting and it would require a new world format that is twice as big, so your world databases could double in file size. The extra mapnode size means lower game performance and more RAM use.
Not worth it for a minor novelty in my opinion.
Why is lighting stored in the map? I thought it is a node parameter which is defined by its definition and the nodes around it. If it cannot be changed in-game, it should be just computed when the nodes are loaded, not stored somewhere.

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Re: Multicolor lighting

by Linuxdirk » Post

Reedych wrote:I wanna multicolor torches, but I think there's no Subj in minetest engine. Is yes?
Absolutely possible with Irrlicht, but not implemented in how Minetest uses Irrlicht, and since paramat is against it this would never be implemented.

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Re: Multicolor lighting

by paramat » Post

> since paramat is against it this would never be implemented.

Nonsense.

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Re: Multicolor lighting

by Linuxdirk » Post

Like all the other things that are not in the game because you're against.

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Re: Multicolor lighting

by azekill_DIABLO » Post

Linuxdirk wrote:Like all the other things that are not in the game because you're against.
I don't wanna be rude but that true. When a core develloper says niet the whole progress is locked.

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Re: Multicolor lighting

by philipbenr » Post

@Linuxdirk

Out of curiosity, how active are you on IRC/github/all other non-forums forms of communication? Because I'm sure its not just paramat that's making these decisions...
https://www.minetest.net/development/ wrote:Contributions are approved if [at least] two members of the core team agree on them.
It appears there is a structure to the additions and even more so for modifications, so I don't think you can blame everything on paramat.

@azekill_DIABLO:
azekill_DIABLO wrote:
Linuxdirk wrote:Like all the other things that are not in the game because you're against.
I don't wanna be rude but that true. When a core develloper says niet the whole progress is locked.
Just keep in mind, the developer community for Minetest is completely volunteers. If someone is against adding something, but it is instead added, they can just quit because they don't want to work with that feature or whatnot. Which I don't doubt has happened in some way, shape, or form before. Better safe than sorry would be a good way to put it. I would compare the Minetest development more to a Linux distribution than a regular game because of this. They have to make sure everything works decently well and everybody can work with the engine. Personal preference does play into this, but they are the developers, and they will have reasons for most all of their choices.

Seeing how devoted to the forums you are, I am pretty sure you won't be going anywhere anytime soon, so what's the rush for progress? Its nice yes, but being patient with the developers will likely help more than complaints or comments about lack of features.

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Re: Multicolor lighting

by ThomasMonroe » Post

I agree there, but there have been times where I have suggested things and get a flat no without much of an explanation.

But that could have been bcs they were busy :P
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Re: Multicolor lighting

by jas » Post

philipbenr wrote:
https://www.minetest.net/development/ wrote:Contributions are approved if [at least] two members of the core team agree on them.
Yeah, but if it's a dev PR it's an automatic +1. Any disapproval is a -1. So as soon as a non-dev submits, and paramat :thumbsdowns:, the PR is at -1 and doesn't look as good. That's my impression, anyway, and I'm sure there's a good reason, probably lack of time/energy. Paramat does a lot of work to organize the trackers for both minetest_game and minetest.

Ps. PRs I like: sound offset, preserve metadata for dropped items, and probably some others too. OMG HOW COULD I FORGET BINDABLE MOUSE BUTTONS? This one has bugs, though, so isn't as good of an example: #6537 (+patch)

PPs. Paramat may be quick to -1, and slow to +1; but I think that's not a bad thing.

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Re: Multicolor lighting

by azekill_DIABLO » Post

philipbenr wrote: Just keep in mind, the developer community for Minetest is completely volunteers. If someone is against adding something, but it is instead added, they can just quit because they don't want to work with that feature or whatnot. Which I don't doubt has happened in some way, shape, or form before. Better safe than sorry would be a good way to put it. I would compare the Minetest development more to a Linux distribution than a regular game because of this. They have to make sure everything works decently well and everybody can work with the engine. Personal preference does play into this, but they are the developers, and they will have reasons for most all of their choices.

Seeing how devoted to the forums you are, I am pretty sure you won't be going anywhere anytime soon, so what's the rush for progress? Its nice yes, but being patient with the developers will likely help more than complaints or comments about lack of features.
It's open-source ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I didn't expected us to work like Micro$oft

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Re: Multicolor lighting

by rubenwardy » Post

I'd love to see this, but it needs to be done carefully to avoid performance impact

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Re: Multicolor lighting

by Shara » Post

I don't consider coloured lighting a mere novelty. The difference it can make when done well is huge.

It's been top of the list of things I most want to see since I first started with MT, and I still keep hoping a good method will be found to handle it.

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Re: Multicolor lighting

by v-rob » Post

I want colored light to work when light goes through stained glass and such and changes color. It would be amazing to see light streaming through huge windows.
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Re: Multicolor lighting

by ThomasMonroe » Post

Once shadows get implemented, it would not be so hard to add something like that because the framework would be there.
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Re: Multicolor lighting

by azekill_DIABLO » Post

surely. But for now light is stored in maps and defined in a such way it is hard to add such.

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Re: Multicolor lighting

by Sires » Post

ThomasMonroe wrote:Once shadows get implemented, it would not be so hard to add something like that because the framework would be there.
Excellent notation
I don't have anything important to say.

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Re: Multicolor lighting

by paramat » Post

> Like all the other things that are not in the game because you're against.

All zero of them, because by myself i can't stop anything, it takes 2+ disapprovals to reject something.
Many PRs are merged that i oppose.
If something wasn't added it was because other devs also disapproved.
Please stop being unpleasant.

> but there have been times where I have suggested things and get a flat no without much of an explanation.

We always provide an explanation, or at least i do.

> So as soon as a non-dev submits, and paramat :thumbsdowns:, the PR is at -1 and doesn't look as good.

If 1 dev disapproves a PR that has no effect on other devs' opinions of it, and doesn't reduce the chance of other devs approving it.

> Paramat may be quick to -1, and slow to +1

-1s are inevitably more common than +1s because this is FOSS, so we have a huge amount of suggestions (currently 457) (everyone can contribute or suggest) while also having severely limited dev time (unpaid so in spare time, and most devs are adults who work or study full time). So we inevitably have to say 'no' a lot and prioritise. Unfortunately some don't understand this situation and become negative about devs (not you jas).

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Re: Multicolor lighting

by azekill_DIABLO » Post

Maybe we should just have a totally unoficial version of the game where everything is more or less mreged and then applied to the regular game if okay... Like a dev-testing-beta branch :D It would avoid paramat to be unjustly lapidated by the community. he makes a lot of good things for minetest, but most of us have the bad habit to only see the negative when he is against a pull request for example! We shouldn't do that.

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Re: Multicolor lighting

by Sires » Post

azekill_DIABLO wrote:Maybe we should just have a totally unoficial version of the game where everything is more or less mreged and then applied to the regular game if okay... Like a dev-testing-beta branch :D It would avoid paramat to be unjustly lapidated by the community. he makes a lot of good things for minetest, but most of us have the bad habit to only see the negative when he is against a pull request for example! We shouldn't do that.
It's about time!(aka +1)
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