Improvement of nodes

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Mr. Xenon
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Improvement of nodes

by Mr. Xenon » Wed Mar 07, 2018 04:11

Hi everyone!

I have noticed (for a long time) that in Minetest it is not possible to create blocks that can contain other objects, I explain better:

Example:

The carpets can not contain a chair placed on the surface of the carpet. Or a torch holder.

These characteristics, even if purely decorative, are very important. 70% of Minecraft and Minetest players play as builders and like to build structures and furnish them, because a sandbox game is a variant of Lego bricks.

I read that Minetest 0.5.0 will have improved and correct APIs (also for mobs), this is a very nice thing that many have been waiting for a long time. Modding is the heart of Minetest (engine), so my question is this: will it be possible to overcome these limits in the next version of Minetest?

I hope I explained myself well, and as always I thank the development team for the excellent job they do.
 

sofar
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Re: Improvement of nodes

by sofar » Wed Mar 07, 2018 07:03

No. Minetest 0.5.0 will not solve what you percieve as a problem.

To put it bluntly: minetest is based on the notion that each space (node) contains a single thing (block). Not zero, not two, not thirty five and three quarters. Just one (1).

You can of course design chairs-on-carpets that are single blocks. You can make all sorts of weird bizarre combinations, but it would still have to be a single node, or do trickery that has odd consequences, or use entities that cause lag and decrease server performance. But there will never be an efficient, cheap and elegant way to do what you want.
 

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Re: Improvement of nodes

by voxelproof » Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:44

I think that as far as carpets are concerned at least there's an easy bypass to this general obstacle. I mean something like woodsoils_groundcover in plantlife modpack, which is simply a 2-dimensional texture layer covering the underlying nodes. I don't know whether placing a chair on it would make it disappear, but I suppose it wouldn't since the torches don't affect the display:

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Re: Improvement of nodes

by Mr. Xenon » Wed Mar 07, 2018 13:25

@sofar I thank you for your exhaustive answer, it was a curiosity that I carried forward a long time. For torch supports I found an excellent compromise elegant and simple to use, for the carpets just do not put anything above disabling the insertion of blocks above them.

Thank you so much, all in all Minetest is a continuous evolution inj project so I can not expect everything right away ;)

@voxelproof the plantlike knots are cool. I think they are very beautiful, useful and light and allow you to create new decorative objects with ease. I will definitely try your suggestion so I update you and show you the results obtained. Thank you.
 

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Re: Improvement of nodes

by sorcerykid » Sat Mar 10, 2018 02:35

It is definitely possible to have two blocks occupying the same space in Minetest by giving the nodebox an X, Y, or Z offset of greater than 0.5. A similar question was addressed several weeks ago:

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=19425

I use this technique extensively for my snowfall mod on the JT2 server to allow snow coverage on slabs, stairs, fences, rails, flowers, etc.

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Re: Improvement of nodes

by sofar » Sat Mar 10, 2018 03:07

sorcerykid wrote:It is definitely possible to have two blocks occupying the same space in Minetest by giving the nodebox an X, Y, or Z offset of greater than 0.5. A similar question was addressed several weeks ago:

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=19425

I use this technique extensively for my snowfall mod on the JT2 server to allow snow coverage on slabs, stairs, fences, rails, flowers, etc.


This would fall into the "trickery with potentially weird and bizarre consequences" category, like being unable to place a block directly above the "trickery". This may sometimes be acceptable, of course.
 

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Re: Improvement of nodes

by Mr. Xenon » Sat Mar 10, 2018 13:01

@sorcerykid I had also experienced this solution, I honestly find it good, does not involve strange bugs such as lighting errors of the knots and similar things. Thank you for your confirmation, you have been very helpful to my cause :)
 

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Re: Improvement of nodes

by Shara » Sun Mar 11, 2018 20:59

Mr. Xenon wrote:The carpets can not contain a chair placed on the surface of the carpet. Or a torch holder.


Just make sure you have rotatable carpets, then place the carpets as the node below so they occupy the uppermost position for that node. Then place items on them as normal.

I've used this approach on more than one server when there was not a full node version of a carpet I wanted to use. It's more work yes, but it does the job.
 

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Re: Improvement of nodes

by paramat » Sun Mar 11, 2018 22:53

A solution is to make the carpet part of the floor node.
 

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Re: Improvement of nodes

by Mr. Xenon » Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:12

@paramat @Shara Thank you very much, you have taken away from me a doubt that I have been carrying around for a long time. I will add this trick in my documentation to help other users overcome this small limit. Thank you so much.
 

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Re: Improvement of nodes

by Hybrid Dog » Wed Mar 21, 2018 17:07

You could make minetest have multiple nodes in the same position. This would allow making water flow through fences and leaves and seep into dirt, carpets could be placed into other nodes, e.g. a carped surrounding a fence pole, and fire could burn nodes without staying next to them.
However, this would significantly alter gameplay, reduce performance (nodemetadata does this already) and making mods would become more twisted because there should never invisibly be a small node inside a bigger one and tnt couldn't longer simply remove nodes at affected positions.
 

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Re: Improvement of nodes

by Linuxdirk » Wed Mar 21, 2018 17:19

sofar wrote:
sorcerykid wrote:It is definitely possible to have two blocks occupying the same space in Minetest by giving the nodebox an X, Y, or Z offset of greater than 0.5.

This would fall into the "trickery with potentially weird and bizarre consequences" category, like being unable to place a block directly above the "trickery". This may sometimes be acceptable, of course.

Actually it works pretty well with the limitation you named.

Except the wield items not being visible :)
 

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Re: Improvement of nodes

by Sokomine » Wed Apr 11, 2018 05:48

Mr. Xenon wrote:The carpets can not contain a chair placed on the surface of the carpet. Or a torch holder.

My moresnow mod allows chairs etc. to "stand" on carpets by using the same mechanism sorcerykid described.
A list of my mods can be found here.
 


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