If we are going to be adding new blocks anyways...

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Dokimi
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If we are going to be adding new blocks anyways...

by Dokimi » Post

I see 0.5 will be getting permafrost.

So...

As someone with a natural science background who's been thinking about making realistic minetest maps, here's 3 ideas for new blocks that would help make more realistic maps without blowing a hole in the principle of minimalism:

1) Silt. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silt
Sediments are typically classed into clay, sand, and silt (also gravel. And dirt is a good enough stand in for Loam - the combo of all three). We are missing one of the big three. Silt isn't very interesting in itself, just very muddy and slippery.

2) Peat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peat
A lot of permafrost is just frozen peat. More importantly peat bogs are one of the world's major types of landscape. Peat has long been a major fuel source, and a source of bog iron https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bog_iron.

3) Limestone. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limestone
This is perhaps the most industrially significant rock on the planet. I am surprised we don't have it already. It gets used in sooooooo many things! Plus it is the rock above all other rock types for caves https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karst.

If we are going to add permafrost... then why not three more? ;-)

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Re: If we are going to be adding new blocks anyways...

by sfan5 » Post

Note that your idea will attract more developer attention if you post it on the minetest_game bugtracker.
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Dokimi
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Re: If we are going to be adding new blocks anyways...

by Dokimi » Post

sfan5 wrote:Note that your idea will attract more developer attention if you post it on the minetest_game bugtracker.

Thanks. I didn't know that was a thing.

I have added it there (much better explained to!).

I see Paramat had already suggested limestone... so maybe we will actually get limestone?

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Re: If we are going to be adding new blocks anyways...

by voxelproof » Post

Dokimi wrote: I see Paramat had already suggested limestone... so maybe we will actually get limestone?
It would surely boost the possibilities of interesting architectural design. But along with limestone it would be also great to see marble (a product of the metamorphosis of limestone). Not only would it make whole lot of opportunities for the able builders, but also would provide incentive for texture creators. Maybe this proposal is going a little bit too far at this stage of the game development, but a wide palette of gettable minerals is a key to make the creative mode something more than just a casual sandbox play.
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Re: If we are going to be adding new blocks anyways...

by DrFrankenstone » Post

Dokimi wrote: I have added it there (much better explained to!).
Just wanted to say what a good read the issue you posted was, and while games must often avoid reality, I love it when these games can be naturally educational.

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Dokimi
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Re: If we are going to be adding new blocks anyways...

by Dokimi » Post

voxelproof wrote:... Maybe this proposal is going a little bit too far at this stage of the game development, but a wide palette of gettable minerals is a key to make the creative mode something more than just a casual sandbox play.
Looks like adding more block types is part of the short-term roadmap (underground at least). https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/projects/1.

Therefore this is a critical time for setting things on a logical basis. So this probably is the right time for these discussions.

That's basically the main point of the issue I opened on github. Making things logical for soils, sediments, and sedimentary rocks would actually be very easy to do.
DrFankenstone wrote:Just wanted to say what a good read the issue you posted was, and while games must often avoid reality, I love it when these games can be naturally educational.
Thank you. I generally agree with the minimalist way things have been done so far (it would be easy to ruin the game by adding too much). Yet I find it interesting that realism is possible even within those limits. Just a few little tweaks... :-)

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Re: If we are going to be adding new blocks anyways...

by voxelproof » Post

Dokimi wrote:
voxelproof wrote:... Maybe this proposal is going a little bit too far at this stage of the game development, but a wide palette of gettable minerals is a key to make the creative mode something more than just a casual sandbox play.
Looks like adding more block types is part of the short-term roadmap (underground at least). https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/projects/1.

Therefore this is a critical time for setting things on a logical basis. So this probably is the right time for these discussions.

That's basically the main point of the issue I opened on github. Making things logical for soils, sediments, and sedimentary rocks would actually be very easy to do.
And for me it's also important because I'm going to share the tp I'm working on for some time. Knowing what new blocks are added to the default game would make the release complete as far as the default textures is concerned (however not counting the armour, skins or tools which I'm not going to include in the pack).
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Dokimi
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Re: If we are going to be adding new blocks anyways...

by Dokimi » Post

Some things to inspire discussion:


Making rocks logical (i.e. for crafting and other relationships)?

sediment -> sedimentary rock -> metamorphic rock

lava ->(cooling process) -> igneous rock ->metamorphic rock

All rocks ->sediment

e.g. coral/seashells ->limestone -> marble
e.g. sand ->sandstone -> quartzite
e.g. lava ->basalt -> greenschist



Some of Earth's more common rocks:
-Granite
-Basalt
-Gabbro
-Andesite
-Rhyolite
-Sandstone
-Mudstones
-limestone
-gniess
-schist
....



Rocks of famous landforms:
-Mt Everest: limestone, siltstone, marble, schist, phyllite,...
-Mt Rushmore: granite
-Uluru: sandstone
-Grand canyon: sandstone, limestone, shale, granite, schist, gneiss,...
-Giant's causeway: basalt
-"Cave of the Crystals" Mexico: gypsum
...



Rocks of famous structures:
-The Great pyramid: limestone (or maybe maybe cement)
- The Tikal Temple: limestone
-Stonehenge: dolerite (among other things)
- The Colosseum: limestone, tuff, concrete
- Angkor wat: sandstone
- Machu pichu: granite
...

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Re: If we are going to be adding new blocks anyways...

by Hume2 » Post

If more types of stone are going to be added, please rename the "stone" to a more specific type of stone. Currently there are not many types of stone plus there is also the desert stone. However, it would be quite stupid to have granite, sandstone, basalt, limestone, whatever-stone … and "stone".
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Dokimi
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Re: If we are going to be adding new blocks anyways...

by Dokimi » Post

Hume2 wrote:... please rename the "stone" to a more specific type of stone. ....
Perhaps...

Stone -> grey granite
Desert stone -> pink granite

Reasoning:
- both stone/desert stone have the same properties... should be different forms of same thing.
- granite comes in similar colors (also white-ish. might need new textures though...?)
- stone/desert stone are hard and common. Granite is hard, and common.

Just a thought!

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Re: If we are going to be adding new blocks anyways...

by Hume2 » Post

Dokimi wrote:
Hume2 wrote:... please rename the "stone" to a more specific type of stone. ....
Perhaps...

Stone -> grey granite
Desert stone -> pink granite

Reasoning:
- both stone/desert stone have the same properties... should be different forms of same thing.
- granite comes in similar colors (also white-ish. might need new textures though...?)
- stone/desert stone are hard and common. Granite is hard, and common.

Just a thought!
Granite would be good. I was also thinking of removing the "stone" completely and replacing it by a few specific types.
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Re: If we are going to be adding new blocks anyways...

by Sokomine » Post

Silt and limestone can be found in the darkage mod. It adds large layers of new types of materials. It's possible to get from silt to other stone types by cooking the result multiple times.

It annoyed me many times already that clay is such a rare material. Even with the underwater deoposits, digging enough clay lumps for a brick house is time consuming and will leave no clay for the next player. Mixing clay with dirt and sand could create loam.
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Re: If we are going to be adding new blocks anyways...

by Hume2 » Post

I think that clay should be a common underground material like gravel or dirt. I made a mod which I haven't published yet. This mod includes a brown clay that can be cooked into bricks and occurs underground.
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Re: If we are going to be adding new blocks anyways...

by ShadMOrdre » Post

Dokimi and others,

Shameless plug here:
Ethereal Valleys
lib_materials

Ethereal Valleys is my blending of ethereal and valleys_c mods, but has grown to include parts of moretrees, the farlands game, and others. My intention is to provide a complete library of flora for which to decorate the world. I've also begun implementing a complete biome system, which will ultimately have over 100 biomes. I currently have all ethereal and valleys_c biomes, along with about 30 biomes I'm working on that encompass heat, humidity, and elevation changes. Ultimately, this should grow to 125 or more biomes, with some special biomes for kicks. I'll work on getting my most recent changes uploaded to github next week.

The lib_materials mod includes moreores, technic, darkage, and others, simply to implement the goals you outlined in your original post above. There is much work to do here, and my most recent changes include oil, grease, quicksand, and 3 new types of flowing water, all as liquids. Sediments, rocks, dirts, are all meant to be better managed and more realistically defined within this mod.

Please take a peak. The code can certainly be cleaner, better optimized, and condensed. My goal here being bringing better worlds to low-end computers.

Shad
MY MODS: lib_ecology lib_materials lib_clouds lib_node_shapes ---- Inspired By: Open Source Virtual World Simulator Opensimulator.

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Re: If we are going to be adding new blocks anyways...

by Hume2 » Post

ShadMOrdre wrote:Dokimi and others,

Shameless plug here:
Ethereal Valleys
lib_materials

Ethereal Valleys is my blending of ethereal and valleys_c mods, but has grown to include parts of moretrees, the farlands game, and others. My intention is to provide a complete library of flora for which to decorate the world. I've also begun implementing a complete biome system, which will ultimately have over 100 biomes. I currently have all ethereal and valleys_c biomes, along with about 30 biomes I'm working on that encompass heat, humidity, and elevation changes. Ultimately, this should grow to 125 or more biomes, with some special biomes for kicks. I'll work on getting my most recent changes uploaded to github next week.

The lib_materials mod includes moreores, technic, darkage, and others, simply to implement the goals you outlined in your original post above. There is much work to do here, and my most recent changes include oil, grease, quicksand, and 3 new types of flowing water, all as liquids. Sediments, rocks, dirts, are all meant to be better managed and more realistically defined within this mod.

Please take a peak. The code can certainly be cleaner, better optimized, and condensed. My goal here being bringing better worlds to low-end computers.

Shad
That's interesting. I'd like to see your 125 biomes soon. Also take a look at my 46 underground biomes viewtopic.php?f=9&t=20384. In my case, I self-designed all the biomes. I'm wonder if there is a way to create biomes automatically. I know that generic biomes will be never as good as the same amount of human-designed biomes, but having, let's say, 1000 biomes isn't bad too.
If you lack the reality, go on a trip or find a job.

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Re: If we are going to be adding new blocks anyways...

by Dokimi » Post

Seeing as we are doing shameless plugs...

I put my ideas into practice here with my Aotearoa biomes mod:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=20770

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