New, less moddable minetest game?

Would you appreciate a new less moddable, minetest story game?

Yes
11
52%
No
4
19%
I dont care
3
14%
Maybe
3
14%
 
Total votes : 21

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Hume2
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Re: New, less moddable minetest game?

by Hume2 » Mon Jul 01, 2019 19:42

That would remove all the constraints related with multiplayer mode.

By the way, there is one more constraint, maybe obvious: The story must be finishable in each world. (or at least in vast majority of worlds)
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Re: New, less moddable minetest game?

by Red_King_Cyclops » Mon Jul 01, 2019 20:06

Hume2 wrote:That would remove all the constraints related with multiplayer mode.

By the way, there is one more constraint, maybe obvious: The story must be finishable in each world. (or at least in vast majority of worlds)

I would not mind having an ending for the story.
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Re: New, less moddable minetest game?

by Eran » Mon Jul 01, 2019 20:12

Filling a big world with story is extremely hard. Stuff like multiplayer, the ability to destroy and build nodes everywhere and procedural generation make it even harder. I think constraining these features gets more necessary the more important and complex the story gets.

I also thought of using reality as a source of stories because coming up with interesting stuff is fairly hard. Wikipedia articles of historical persons might be a good source. Multiple short, small stories that are similar in a certain way might also work.
For example each one could be a day in the life of Florida Man since games making you do completely absurd things can be pretty fun.
 

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Re: New, less moddable minetest game?

by paramat » Mon Jul 01, 2019 23:57

We intend to add more games, especially a game that is actually a complete game, with gameplay, that is made to impress. MTG is not a game, it's a modding base.
 

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Re: New, less moddable minetest game?

by Wuzzy » Tue Jul 02, 2019 00:19

Minetest Game is not a game. How ironic! :D
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Re: New, less moddable minetest game?

by MineYoshi » Tue Jul 02, 2019 15:12

Wuzzy wrote:Minetest Game is not a game. How ironic! :D

Life is not like we expect it to be. Mine-test isn't actually a device for testing mines but ratherly a voxel game: that's even more ironic.

I'd say a good Minetest full game shouldn't have such a strict story but ratherly a well done gameplay: something well done and that's more about how you take it and like it to be. A Minetest game focused in Retro games that has dungeons and buildings based upon Retro games spawning naturally with lots of mobs and a pretty decent mapgen with lots of items to discover and steal could be a pretty decent and full game without even having a story as such.
 

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Re: New, less moddable minetest game?

by AiTechEye » Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:22

Filling a big world with story is extremely hard


To give minetest a story/adventure is not hard at all,

it could be, eg Sam's friend stuck/captured somewhere, maybe in another dimension, and to go to there, there could be generated a few places to go through, enemies/bosses to defeat, and dimantions (eg nether, floatland, cloudland...) to visit, or as missions

Bots to animate in specific positions/situations as game characters

Start simple, add more with the time, to a more complex game.

In a team this would be well made, and there are lots of experienced and creative people in this community.

i can do this in xaenvironment later, when enought things is made
 

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Re: New, less moddable minetest game?

by Hume2 » Wed Jul 03, 2019 18:32

MineYoshi wrote:I'd say a good Minetest full game shouldn't have such a strict story but ratherly a well done gameplay: something well done and that's more about how you take it and like it to be. A Minetest game focused in Retro games that has dungeons and buildings based upon Retro games spawning naturally with lots of mobs and a pretty decent mapgen with lots of items to discover and steal could be a pretty decent and full game without even having a story as such.

Good point here. A strict story isn't necesarily needed. Just take the gameplay, it is a story itself. You create the story just by playing the game. Isn't that enough? I think, it is a very nice feature that you can create your own story. So all you need is a beginning and a target. The rest is up to the players.

EDIT: After you finish the game, you can write down the story and read it to the others. So what you need to do is making these stories entertaining. And you won't do it by preparing a detailed story. You can do it by introducing nice and enjoyable elements.
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Re: New, less moddable minetest game?

by ShadMOrdre » Thu Jul 04, 2019 07:36

Honestly, are there ANY cross platform, singleplayer/multiplayer open world RPGs, RTSs, 3D shooter, CTF or other immersive style games available, anywhere? MT, engine not game, is getting better at making this possible.

MTG + 3darmor + bows + geomoria + settlements + mobs_redo/nssm is essentially the above. No story needed, none provided, and yet, a very basic platform for building any of the above genre style games.

I've been considering making a destructive world an option. What if you couldn't just dig to the diamonds. The nodes aren't diggable, in the the classic MC way. Instead, they are non-destructable by normal means. You must make devices to help you find the ore, and to actually remove stone to get to the ore, and to actually mine and process the ore. Not to simply drag out the time it takes to get the diamond, but to make getting the diamond irrelevant. In whatever game "scenario" you can imagine, what if to achieve the goal you actually have to achieve quests, and getting the diamonds is maybe not even part of the solution, if still a necessary part of the process.

Skyrim gets replayed because of the possible outcomes, not to the story, but to the players "character" development. This is an area where a game, or a mod, could really improve some options.

Awards and Sys4_Quests both make great inroads on this front, but are never more fully developed beyond supporting the default mod MTG. One would think game devs that include them in their games would at least flesh them out some, for the game at hand. Other games use custom built solutions to solve these issues, which are not then transferrable to other games, unlike the awards and sys4_quests mods, which can be stuffed into anything, almost.

Mod authors seem quite content to continue recreating the wheel for basic functionality, instead of working out a decent api standard. Some mod authors don't know that there is already code written, without much, much, much, much ........ reading here on the forums. And by then, they are either halfway into recreating wheels, halfway into frustration, or halfway into giving up.

A lot has been/is being said about how most games simply force players to grind through ever more excruciating steps to achieve the simple goal of MTG. Using MTG, MC thinking, and a refusal to see Outside the Box (pun intended) is what keeps this a constant conversation topic over the years.

The mod salad grows, but continues to depend on (again, pun intended) outdated ways of voxel world game development.

Not a less moddable game. Perhaps more community involvement in helping to make a better "base" game, as well as, a better base for making games. It's really up to those of us who aren't preoccupied with engine development to actually put our fingers to the keyboard to make stuff happen, in a collaborative, coherent, and civil manner.

Shad
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Re: New, less moddable minetest game?

by texmex » Thu Jul 04, 2019 17:15

Agreed.

I like your idea about a non-destructive world, or at least a world in which a mountain can’t be decimated within an our. It would make the landscape, tunnels and dungeons that more interesting to navigate.

I’ve come to think of the engine and the community as not so much interested in game creation primarily. Instead, other values are being upheld such as a kind of custodian relationship to the early freer spirit of Minecraft, free software principles and good old ”status quo hobbyism” (people get used to the ways of the community, the pace of development, find friends and become less interested in building games).

A somewhat technical explaination of why people always reinvent the wheel is because there isn’t a sort of package manager that sorts out mod dependencies automatically. Also, the community might be too small to depend on a bunch of mod maintainers to do their job (but we won’t know for sure unless it’s tried).

You arrive at the same conclusion as I regarding new original games getting made: it has to be social, cooperative and openly made. In my mind this demands a strong vision of what’s being made, supported by inspiring game lore, art style and development and cooperation policy.

The closest thing that has resembled this mode of game creation is with the now abandoned Farlands game. The game did had some vision of what was being made (though in very few words) and it did have a coherent art style thanks to a good pixel artist but that was about it. It lacked a strong public vision, public lore and policy of cooperation. All these factors I think contributes to the outcome of a project like this so building on those mistakes, it needs to be contemplated in a new project.

I’ve thought about development being completely open or not though. On the one hand, it might attract good contributors, great visionaries, artists etc, accellerating a project. On the other hand, since originality hardly is a virtue in the MT universe the juicy parts in a project might just be cannibalized before the game being released. What are your thoughts in this regard?
 

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Re: New, less moddable minetest game?

by ShadMOrdre » Thu Jul 04, 2019 21:07

Please see my post regarding this subject here.

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Re: New, less moddable minetest game?

by Red_King_Cyclops » Sat Jul 20, 2019 14:32

I came up with a detailed game idea here. It would be less moddable and have a story (kind of).
I'm working on a mod that is essentially Galacticraft for Minetest (with differences).
 

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