Mods 2.0 - A Revolution [Concept]

User avatar
runs
Member
Posts: 3225
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2018 08:32

Mods 2.0 - A Revolution [Concept]

by runs » Post

My concept of the Mods 2.0:

1) MTG has died. It has to be buried. Its mods are outdated, they have to be replaced by new ones.
2) Cool mods. Coolness is important. Who doesn't like cool and cute?
3) MT mods are boring and copy Minecraft. You have to look for originality and challenge. The revolution is coming.

My future mods will be 2.0 of course. They will be a revolution, they will be something big. Go prepare the fireworks now.

PD: I'm going to try, if I get shitty it won't be my fault :-D

User avatar
Hume2
Member
Posts: 709
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2018 08:24
GitHub: Hume2
In-game: Hume2
Location: Czech Republic

Re: Mods 2.0 - A Revolution [Concept]

by Hume2 » Post

I think, that's what nearly all of us secretly wish. You know, there are many ideas but only a few people having both skills and time. I see that there is a potential in your mods. It would be nice if there were more such mods, at least the graphics if nothing else.

I wouldn't call it a revolution because this aim was there before and I don't think that it is going to rise significantly because of this thread. I'd rather call it a style. And it would be good if you created a more detailed styleguide so it would be easier to follow this style.

It would be good to make a game which could fully replace MTG. There were many discussions about that but the result was always so huge and vague so there wasn't even any serious attempt to create that. Maybe the error was in that they always wanted to make something better than MINECR~1 instead of making just something good?
If you lack the reality, go on a trip or find a job.

User avatar
runs
Member
Posts: 3225
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2018 08:32

Re: Mods 2.0 - A Revolution [Concept]

by runs » Post

Hume2 wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 15:24
I think, that's what nearly all of us secretly wish. You know, there are many ideas but only a few p... ...er than MINECR~1 instead of making just something good?
I think the problem with Minetest has been the huge inferiority complex with respect to Minecraft. It has always felt like the ugly, dumb brother. It's tried to mitigate it by being "serious" and more catholic than the Pope. With the tag: "I'm cool, because I'm free software, hey, look at it". Justifying itself at every step it took.

If MTG has failed is because it was a shameless copy of Minecraft. Not a bad copy, in my opinion, because in my opinion it was better than that. But its biggest problem was that once it copied the basics, it suffered from any ambition. Nobody knew or wanted to continue or improve it. And that's why it died, alone and abandoned.
Last edited by runs on Sun Nov 15, 2020 22:45, edited 1 time in total.

Thelepop
New member
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2020 22:14

Re: Mods 2.0 - A Revolution [Concept]

by Thelepop » Post

Runs teach me how to mod so the revolution happens.

User avatar
runs
Member
Posts: 3225
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2018 08:32

Re: Mods 2.0 - A Revolution [Concept]

by runs » Post

Thelepop wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 18:31
Runs teach me how to mod so the revolution happens.
1) Start reading this:
Minetest Modding Book

2) Start doing small, simple mods. I.e. a mod that creates new nodes.

3) Do investigate and query for help in the forums here.

User avatar
Zughy
Member
Posts: 301
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2020 18:23
GitHub: belongs_to_microsoft
In-game: Zughy
Location: Italy
Contact:

Re: Mods 2.0 - A Revolution [Concept]

by Zughy » Post

runs wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 13:13
3) MT mods are boring and copy Minecraft. You have to look for originality and challenge.
Not necessarily true: if something worked on Minecraft, why not bringing it in here too? A practical example is Giova's Skywars. In my server, which currently runs 3 different minigames including skywars, the vast majority of players want to play - you got it - skywars. And I'm not surprised at all thinking about it, because we're talking about the most played minigame in the history of Minecraft (along with, probably, Hunger Games). Can it then be improved later with things MC can't have like custom UI? Absolutely. But it shouldn't be demonised only because it started on Minecraft. I mean, Battle Royales came after MC's Hunger Games, which came after the movie, which came after the book (and I'm not sure whether the manga called Battle Royale was prior to the book, but it probably is). My point here is, everything gets a bit of inspiration from something else. You can be original while at the same time utilising a solid foundation you saw somewhere else. We are sometimes hit with revolutionary ideas out of the blue, but mostly we aren't

User avatar
philipbenr
Member
Posts: 1897
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2013 01:56
GitHub: philipbenr
IRC: philipbenr
In-game: robinspi
Location: United States

Re: Mods 2.0 - A Revolution [Concept]

by philipbenr » Post

1) Minetest game is a minimal showcase of what Minetest can do and is more than good enough for a fair number of people. Even if its development is halted, its still perfectly fine.
2) What? "Coolness" is completely subjective, and I know that there are many mods out there that I think are cool and provide a great experience.
3) How many mods have you looked at? How many games have you tried out? I personally think this statement is objectively wrong.

As Zughy pointed out, there is nothing wrong with Minetest mods copying the best of Minecraft either. Its the same principle as why there are staple foods and recipes that people always like. They just go well with each other.

I want to see an theoretical example of one of your Mods 2.0 mods, as this just sounds like airing complaints about what's currently here without proposing any changes.

Anyway, I wish you luck in your endeavors. If you have the motivation to change what's there and really make something better, I'm all for it. But I do have my doubts.

User avatar
runs
Member
Posts: 3225
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2018 08:32

Re: Mods 2.0 - A Revolution [Concept]

by runs » Post

Zughy wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 01:42
runs wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 13:13
3) MT mods are boring and copy Minecraft. You have to look for originality and challenge.
Not necessarily true: if something worked on Minecraft, why not bringing it in here too? A practical example is Giova's Skywars. In my server, which currently runs 3 different minigames including skywars, the vast majority of players want to play - you got it - skywars. And I'm not surprised at all thinking about it, because we're talking about the most played minigame in the history of Minecraft (along with, probably, Hunger Games). Can it then be improved later with things MC can't have like custom UI? Absolutely. But it shouldn't be demonised only because it started on Minecraft. I mean, Battle Royales came after MC's Hunger Games, which came after the movie, which came after the book (and I'm not sure whether the manga called Battle Royale was prior to the book, but it probably is). My point here is, everything gets a bit of inspiration from something else. You can be original while at the same time utilising a solid foundation you saw somewhere else. We are sometimes hit with revolutionary ideas out of the blue, but mostly we aren't
Copy is not bad. Only copy is bad, I meant. In fact when MTG reached the Minecraft 1.7.6 features the ideas blew up.

User avatar
runs
Member
Posts: 3225
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2018 08:32

Re: Mods 2.0 - A Revolution [Concept]

by runs » Post

philipbenr wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 03:21
1) Minetest game is a minimal showcase of what Minetest can do and is more than good enough for a fair number of people. Even if its development is halted, its still perfectly fine.
2) What? "Coolness" is completely subjective, and I know that there are many mods out there that I think are cool and provide a great experience.
3) How many mods have you looked at? How many games have you tried out? I personally think this statement is objectively wrong.

As Zughy pointed out, there is nothing wrong with Minetest mods copying the best of Minecraft either. Its the same principle as why there are staple foods and recipes that people always like. They just go well with each other.

I want to see an theoretical example of one of your Mods 2.0 mods, as this just sounds like airing complaints about what's currently here without proposing any changes.

Anyway, I wish you luck in your endeavors. If you have the motivation to change what's there and really make something better, I'm all for it. But I do have my doubts.
1) I love MTG! But I would want a better MTG.

2) You are right.

3) Few mods. The most interesting ones IMO. But is that there are hundreds! I never played a game other than MTG and Juanchi of mine, ha, ha, ha. Really it is my fault :-( It is in my TO-DO list for the '21.

Minsc
New member
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2020 13:42

Re: Mods 2.0 - A Revolution [Concept]

by Minsc » Post

You sound ambitious, that's cool. Seems reasonable to put together a design document to outline a vision for a new MTG. Simply having a compiled vision should help focus those who want to contribute on a more defined goal. Of course, if it's a one man show then that one person will have to scale down and focus on what one person can do. The more ambitious design document can exist though.

A game like the MineCraft modpack "MineColonies" built upon MineTest would be cool. At the end of the day I'm just an idea man.

ShadMOrdre
Member
Posts: 1118
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2014 08:07
Location: USA

Re: Mods 2.0 - A Revolution [Concept]

by ShadMOrdre » Post

Ambitious.

After two solid years of continuous dev, I have cobbled together something worth sharing.

Game Abstraction Layer is a reworking of mods. In my time here, I've encountered mods that rewrite code, for trivial reason, mods that depend on default for no reason whatsoever, code that is not efficient, or is out of date with current versions of MT. The australia, aotearoa, ethereal, and valleys_c are all amazing mods that provide deep content. Yet all of them clear registered biomes, ores, and decorations, making each incompatible with the others. FOR NO REASON!!!

Enter GAL. Most of this works (atm, there are still bugs. expect crashes). Most of this actually works better and less laggy than before. I've even managed to lower the memory footprint. The depth of content in GAL, atm is substantial. Take a peek, and, if this fits the definition, come and contribute.

Shad

User avatar
runs
Member
Posts: 3225
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2018 08:32

Re: Mods 2.0 - A Revolution [Concept]

by runs » Post

ShadMOrdre wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 20:09
Ambitious.

After two solid years of continuous dev, I have cobbled together something worth sharing.

Game Abstraction Layer is a reworking of mods. In my time here, I've encountered mods that rewrite code, for trivial reason, mods that depend on default for no reason whatsoever, code that is not efficient, or is out of date with current versions of MT. The australia, aotearoa, ethereal, and valleys_c are all amazing mods that provide deep content. Yet all of them clear registered biomes, ores, and decorations, making each incompatible with the others. FOR NO REASON!!!

Enter GAL. Most of this works (atm, there are still bugs. expect crashes). Most of this actually works better and less laggy than before. I've even managed to lower the memory footprint. The depth of content in GAL, atm is substantial. Take a peek, and, if this fits the definition, come and contribute.

Shad
Cool library for game-makers.

Josselin2
Member
Posts: 102
Joined: Thu May 28, 2020 15:32
GitHub: axcore
In-game: Josselin
Location: Tunnelers' Abyss

Re: Mods 2.0 - A Revolution [Concept]

by Josselin2 » Post

ShadMOrdre wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 20:09
After two solid years of continuous dev, I have cobbled together something worth sharing.
In advance of a formal announcement, would you be able to write a couple of lines about what you're trying to achieve with GAL?

ShadMOrdre
Member
Posts: 1118
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2014 08:07
Location: USA

Re: Mods 2.0 - A Revolution [Concept]

by ShadMOrdre » Post

Josselin2,

This project is hard to describe, honestly.

It is a game. This game includes some concepts that improve performance, (lower memory and processing footprint), expand capabilities, or just simply updates the codebase to more recent or efficient means. Loading data from .csv files means that some code, like node definitions, is optimized to a single function, and reduces code tremendously. I've added a usable voronoi library, nodebox shapes library, and am working to implement an already used dynamic schematics library that enables single schematics to be updated on the fly and to also retain meta data. By forcing a bit of conformity, I can also reduce dependency confusion, as well as make mods more interoperable in the process. A single ontology of nodes and items that helps mods work on the meat of the mod, instead of spending so much processing power simply to provide compatibility.

In a nutshell, this is a rewrite to pull together logic, while providing a consistant interface for adding content and game rules for game makers. It is also meant to be a more cohesive and configurable base for modders. A "game abstraction layer" that assists developers in making MT games.

It's Baldur's Gate/Diablo meets Morrowind/Oblivian/Skiyrim meets Age of Empires/Warcraft/0AD meets Civilization meets Minetest.

It's a mod soup. A collection of mods made to work together, more efficiently.

It's both a concept and a playable game. Hopefully, one possible answer to the core dev call for more games.

There is much tweaking to do, many bugs to squash, a little more feature creep to add, and a whole lotta "not enough time".

It's what I play in, code for, and share with. I do hope you find something useful, fun, intriguing, educational, or perhaps, inspiring.

Shad

User avatar
MCL
Member
Posts: 654
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2018 00:44
GitHub: MCLx86
IRC: migdyn
In-game: singleplayer
Contact:

Re: Mods 2.0 - A Revolution [Concept]

by MCL » Post

runs wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 17:38
when MTG reached the Minecraft 1.7.6 features
Minetest Game 5 barely even reached the Minecraft Beta 1.8 (mid-2011) features, let alone release 1.7.6 (late 2013).
2014-02-14 - 2024-02-14 TEN YEARS OF MCL

cuthbertdoublebarrel
Member
Posts: 348
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2020 16:03
GitHub: cuthbert

Re: Mods 2.0 - A Revolution [Concept]

by cuthbertdoublebarrel » Post

ShadMOrdre wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 03:19
It's a mod soup. A collection of mods made to work together, more efficiently.
sounds very intresting
helpful if you had told us roughly how many mods and what the mains ones are . i have roughly 300 loaded , most of the mobs are up and running including the ones no longer listed on the downloader .,but they are sure not working well or efficiently together . just downloaded your project so will have a peep at what you are up to .
Project BrutalTest...hide your Petz

User avatar
ywwv
Member
Posts: 299
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2021 11:51

Re: Mods 2.0 - A Revolution [Concept]

by ywwv » Post

Hi runs . this sounds awesome. it reminds me of the internet and when they invented web 2.0 . I'm thinking of making some mods 2.0 myself. like a revolutinary. you can be paul reveere .

User avatar
Emetchi
Member
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2017 22:39
GitHub: FinnRules
In-game: Emetchi or FinnRules

Re: Mods 2.0 - A Revolution [Concept]

by Emetchi » Post

I think we're destined for a new generation of mods with the death of MTG, but it's running into the big problem that we don't have a game we're all modding anymore. I think the future is the diversification of games. I jumped into building a game and I'm loving it. Problem is not a single mod works with my game, so it takes work to port all of them. I think if we have a mods 2.0, it could look like a push towards game agnostic modding, or support for multiple games.
Hey, a signature, how quaint.

User avatar
runs
Member
Posts: 3225
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2018 08:32

Re: Mods 2.0 - A Revolution [Concept]

by runs » Post

Mods 2.0 is a philosophy of making mods. Mods here are usually boring and academic stuff. MTG compressed creativity and design.

Mods 2.0 is something fresh and new, never seen before. Something cool.

Do mod 2.0! The Minetest community will thank you
🥰

User avatar
davidthecreator
Member
Posts: 452
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2014 19:48
GitHub: daviddoesminetest
In-game: DavidDoesMinetest
Location: Lithuania

Re: Mods 2.0 - A Revolution [Concept]

by davidthecreator » Post

runs wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 13:13

3) MT mods are boring and copy Minecraft. You have to look for originality and challenge. The revolution is coming.
Noted.

Proceeds to copy terraria instead

twoelk
Member
Posts: 1482
Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2013 16:19
GitHub: twoelk
IRC: twoelk
In-game: twoelk
Location: northern Germany

Re: Mods 2.0 - A Revolution [Concept]

by twoelk » Post

things easily get complicated if you want to please all.
Imagine a flower mod.
How do you decide where they should grow?
on default-dirt-with-grass? What if i want them to grow in a game that doesn't include default from mtg?
is some sort of soil group general enough for every game my mod might encounter? Or is that even too general for my flowers that I might want to grow only at certain places. Do we have biome groups yet?
I could write code for my flowers to grow on certain kinds of grass for every game I know of - but what of the games I never tried or havn't been written yet? What if someone wants to grow the plants in ways I havn't thought of yet.
If you need to interact with a node outside of your mod that you do not know the name of we only have the group system and that surely leaves room for improvement.

If we want game agnostic mods of all kinds to work we might have to extend the group system and maybe even include some sort of hierarchical system. Like grouping groups in supergroups and feeding mods with groupsoup. Of course mt might bail out after grouping some supergroups of groupsoup into superdupergroups.

User avatar
Linuxdirk
Member
Posts: 3217
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2014 11:21
In-game: Linuxdirk
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Mods 2.0 - A Revolution [Concept]

by Linuxdirk » Post

... so you better provide an API so game creators can decide on their own where the flowers should grow.

User avatar
IFRFSX
Member
Posts: 71
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2018 09:50
GitHub: IceCatX
In-game: IFRFSX

Re: Mods 2.0 - A Revolution [Concept]

by IFRFSX » Post

But, In this way, all MTG-based mods will disappear.
So the best way is not to let MTG die, but to continue to improve it.
Don't forget that this is not the first time that MTG has entered the bug fix only mode. As the number of MT development teams increases in the future, it may be possible to release it.
In addition, MTG is not a copy of MC. It is not only a code, but also has certain differences in terms of specific functions. .

User avatar
Linuxdirk
Member
Posts: 3217
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2014 11:21
In-game: Linuxdirk
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Mods 2.0 - A Revolution [Concept]

by Linuxdirk » Post

IFRFSX wrote:
Tue Mar 02, 2021 15:45
all MTG-based mods will disappear.
I currently work on making my mods game-independent. My most relevant mods are already.

deleted c0a803ab

Re: Mods 2.0 - A Revolution [Concept]

by deleted c0a803ab » Post

runs wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 08:35
[...] Mods here are usually boring and academic stuff. MTG compressed creativity and design.
Mods 2.0 is something fresh and new, never seen before. Something cool.

Do mod 2.0! The Minetest community will thank you
You are arrogant and doing bullshit bingo here.
Why this thread wasn't reported before?

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests