NEW: Sammy Rating System

[runs]

I've created a Sammy Rating System, very similar to the european PEGI, to categorize Minetest games and mods about its content refered to children.

"Sammy Rating", certified for all the possible ages and Minetest Policy:

v1.3 (04/08/2021)

This is a self-responsibility method. The mod creators must commit that if they certify with this system, their mods comply with the conditions.



-Target: All ages
-The content of the game/mod is considered suitable for all age groups.
-Some violence in a comical context (typically Bugs Bunny or 'Tom and Jerry' cartoon-like forms of violence) is acceptable.
-No bad language should be heard.




-Target: 7-11 years old.
-Game/Mod content with scenes or sounds that can possibly be frightening to younger children.



-Target: +12 years old.
-Game/Mod that show violence of a slightly more graphic nature towards fantasy characters or non-realistic violence towards human-like characters would fall in this age category.
-The use of tobacco, alcohol, or semi-illegal drugs (only marihuana) can also be present.
-The game/mod contains elements that encourage or teach gambling.
-The game/mod contains horrific sounds or horror effects (but without any violent content).
-The game/mod contains suggestive themes, but no nudity nor obvious sexual content.



- Target: +18 years old.
- It only applies for Minetest Servers.
- This rating does not necessarily imply that the policy of that server has that rating, but that it cannot be ensured a lower rating.
- The server could gross violence, apparently motiveless killing, or violence towards defenceless characters.
- The server could show glamorisation of the use of illegal drugs.
- The server could explicit sexual activity.

Note that "Sammy 16" (teen) and "Sammy 18" (adult) would be not posible currently (and probably never) for Minetest Forums nor ContentDB due to Minetest Policy.

Media License

- CC BY-SA 4

Regulatory Using

- Put the image rating on your mod.
- Optional: A link to this post.

Feel free to use it!

[runs]

v1.0 finished.

Well, what do you think about my rating?

I will use it in my mods to avoid misunderstandings and confusion that I had recently.

[runs]

Note that "Sammy 16" (teen) and "Sammy 18" (adult) would be not posible currently (and probably never) for Minetest Forums nor ContentDB due to Minetest Policy. I mean some equivalent to common rating systems as PEGI or American.

[rubenwardy]

This is an dumb and arbitrary system. There's a reason that ContentDB went with content flags rather than content ratings.

Also, drugs and violence is allowed on ContentDB - these are things that can get a game an 18 rating.

See https://content.minetest.net/packages/L ... drug_wars/

[runs]

This is an dumb and arbitrary system. There's a reason that ContentDB went with content flags rather than content ratings.

Also, drugs and violence is allowed on ContentDB - these are things that can get a game an 18 rating.

See https://content.minetest.net/packages/L ... drug_wars/

Youre right rubenwardy. But you know I've had a lot of problems in this community, probably because of my stupidity and inability to communicate in English, or to be funny with jokes and nonsense that I shouldn't do.

From now on I want to do it right. This system is for my mods, and if someone wants to join it, well.

[MCL]

This is an dumb and arbitrary system. There's a reason that ContentDB went with content flags rather than content ratings.

Also, drugs and violence is allowed on ContentDB - these are things that can get a game an 18 rating.

See https://content.minetest.net/packages/L ... drug_wars/

I have a question, is it possibly to filter the Content-DB results based on the violence/drugs/gambling/etc. tags? What I mean is not to hide all mods that contain violence, drugs, etc. but to only show them and hide all the other mods that do not have those flags? I'm interested in how many mods like that exist.

[rubenwardy]

I can tell you that there's 19 packages with content flags.

It's only possible to filter out content flags, you can't filter for them. (To get 19, I did the difference of no filters minus all filtered out)

[MCL]

Are you planning on implemeting such a feature?

[runs]

I think it is a good idea and already use it for my mods d(^.^).

I am really unsure what kind of violence would count as Sammy 3. I assume violence against mobs like the Igores of mobs redo is already Sammy 7. Does someone have a good example for PEGI 3 violence?

v1.1, update for Sammy 3:
-Some violence in a comical context (typically Bugs Bunny or 'Tom and Jerry' cartoon-like forms of violence) is acceptable.
-No bad language should be heard.

[Festus1965]

A nice idea,

I've created a Sammy Rating System, very similar to the european PEGI, to categorize Minetest games and mods about its content refered to children.

but as I think so often over the typical human (brain and imagine-)border ...

would we accept, when a child is hitting his mouse or cat, later his brother like Tom and Jerry ? upps

CS and others are restricted, later is was just the blood to see what made the difference ... a joke

I think how kids from Syria where schools and hospitals are bombed, or from some African regions would think about this borders, as just in the neighborhood kidnapping and killing is normal ... or ask kids from poor areas in Basil ...

And then my daughter an me are playing Arsenal in Roblox and have Fun ... I am OK with it, as preparing her for the future.
Counterstrike, Urban Terror ...

And yesterday as watching "Fat man" (Kid order Killer to kill Santa) she shout to Santa move, left ... get down during the final fight ... so she got it.

Result: I have always a smile on my face when read about age restricted content ... what a glasshouse we sit in ...

[MCL]

In Poland there is usually PEGI, on rare occasions ESRB (if it's imported), or sometimes no rating at all. It is not required in Poland to have age ratings on movies, television, and computer games, and the seller is obligated to sell it to you no matter your age, and you could actually sue someone if he refuses to sell you a movie/computer game based on your age or any other reason.

[ywwv]

This is an dumb and arbitrary system. There's a reason that ContentDB went with content flags rather than content ratings.

Also, drugs and violence is allowed on ContentDB - these are things that can get a game an 18 rating.

See https://content.minetest.net/packages/L ... drug_wars/

Sorry but my little brother (in law) can't play certain games with me unless he can prove to his mom that they are rated to be appropriate for his age. I hope that as many games in minetest can use this so we can play CTF together !!

[rubenwardy]

Sorry but my little brother (in law) can't play certain games with me unless he can prove to his mom that they are rated to be appropriate for his age. I hope that as many games in minetest can use this so we can play CTF together !!

This rating system isn't proof of anything. It's completely made up by some random person, and has no certification or backing. Content flags are much more honest, and his mum can check what a game actually contains

[cuthbertdoublebarrel]

. It's completely made up by some random person, and has no certification or backing. Content flags are much more honest

Can you supply the name of the non random person that is responsible for flagging content plus the certification and backing they hold to attain that postion ? .

[rubenwardy]

Content flags are not certifications or ratings, they're objective facts about content.

PEGI, which is what runs is probably trying to imitate, is backed by a federation of game developers, institutions, and other stakeholders. In order to get a PEGI rating you need to be certified by an accredited issuer like Google, or the PEGI independent administrator. You can't just claim your game is a certain rating by yourself without being certified

[cuthbertdoublebarrel]

Content flags are not certifications or ratings, they're objective facts about content.

So the content flags are put there by a random person
and not offically checked by the PEGI or anyone else that is certified.

[philipbenr]

The difference is, someone can easily moderate if the flags are correct or not as they are based on facts about the project or mod, whereas people can argue about the predefined nature of a "rating". Flags are easier for people to make their own decisions instead of getting an arbitrary rating.

And if you really wanted an age rating system, this is the wrong way to go about it. Instead, the rating should be based on the tags that are present in the game. For example, violence and nudity tags => "mature rating" or whatever your rating is supposed to be for those tags. That way, you don't have a bandage system that this is.

This rating system also appears to be made in bad faith, as it was created largely when runs was again facing a lot of drama and flak for the (imo) sketchy direction of Samantha and beauty modpacks. Runs has only implemented said rating system in 5 of the pieces of content they've published, largely ignoring all other content that is not drawing attention. This is ignoring the fact that runs has created content in the past that is very explicit and NSFW without any indication (which has since been deleted).

You can agree with the idea of runs' system without having the bad faith and implementation quirks/flaws. It is better to instead implement it in a way that is more objective (tagging content) and then basing ratings off of those.

[ywwv]

Sorry but my little brother (in law) can't play certain games with me unless he can prove to his mom that they are rated to be appropriate for his age. I hope that as many games in minetest can use this so we can play CTF together !!

This rating system isn't proof of anything. It's completely made up by some random person, and has no certification or backing. Content flags are much more honest, and his mum can check what a game actually contains

isn't that a mean thing to say about runs!

[philipbenr]

...

isn't that a mean thing to say about runs!

Blunt and mean are two different things. Rubenwardy is not being mean, he is just stating the truth here.

If you mean about "runs being random" is mean, well... in the scope of game rating and knowing what is best for people of all age groups, runs has demonstrated the opposite by some of their posts.

[runs]

This is not my system is a self-responsibility system for all the mod developers.

And it is not a bad system, it is a solid and simple system based on European PEGI. Really I think the tags are arbitrary and confusing. Better a clear logo with the age. For mothers it would be very useful, IMO.

I encourage everyone to use it. Children and parents will be grateful...

PD: Please stop referring to me. This method is called "Sammy Rating System" not "Runs Rating System". I do not certify anything. No one is forced to use it, it is only recommended. Of course I thought of it for my mods, because there were polemic whether they were suitable or not for kids. SRS has saved my life as a modder, now no one will be able to criticize the content of my mods. Now I am more relaxed with SRS. SRS is cool. Do use SRS.

[runs]

v1.2 of the SRS

Added the "Self-responsibility method" to the definition:

This is a self-responsibility method. The mod creators must commit that if they certify with this system, their mods comply with the conditions.

[philipbenr]

This is not my system

I've created a Sammy Rating System...

Hmm... Seems like it is your system. You can't just disown it, especially considering you are the original poster of the topic, you are the only one contributing to it, and one of the very few users.

Really I think the tags are arbitrary and confusing. Better a clear logo with the age.

I don't think you understand what the word arbitrary means. Tags literally describe the content and are not arbitrary. That is the whole point of them, as well as the whole advantage. And as I said, the best way to go about this is to instead just base the rating in content.db based on the tags, instead of making the creator worry about looking up the guidelines themselves. This way you have a system that does the job automatically.

PD: Please stop referring to me. This method is called "Sammy Rating System" not "Runs Rating System".

See above. You created the system and gave the definitions. You take credit in the original post. You are the one updating the spec. You can't just handwave it behind a name.

SRS has saved my life as a modder, now no one will be able to criticize the content of my mods. Now I am more relaxed with SRS. SRS is cool. Do use SRS.

"Saved your life as a modder"... give me a break with your advertising. Oh, and slapping a rating on a mod doesn't exempt you from criticism for a mod, I'll tell you that.

Regardless, if you really wish to push for this, you need to provide less arbitrary explanations (e.g. violence definitions, "bad language", "frightening to younger children", etc.), as well as citations for the reasons you are using the current numbers and categorization. I am not going to use a system that I have no reason to believe is founded in good faith without research and citations. Because why should I trust the ideas of a random person on the internet, especially one that has produced NSFW content.

And before you say that "You don't have to use it if you don't want to". I understand that. I am voicing criticism of your system, as it is incomplete and appears to be founded in bad faith. And considering this is an ethical system, you should do things completely and ethically.

If you want credibility, you need to show people that you've done work for it, especially considering your track record.

[ywwv]

...

isn't that a mean thing to say about runs!

Blunt and mean are two different things. Rubenwardy is not being mean, he is just stating the truth here.

If you mean about "runs being random" is mean, well... in the scope of game rating and knowing what is best for people of all age groups, runs has demonstrated the opposite by some of their posts.

SORRY but I think you are being contemptuous... isn't this a destructive attitude to have?

I would appreciate if this rating system became popular because it makes mine test more accessible to the younger people ...

[runs]

No more controversy, please. If I did this, it would build bridges, not destroy them.

It's all said and done. Everyone has an opinion (with education whatever he wants). Period.

PD1: And speaking of ethics, a porn actress can be more ethical than an Anglo-Saxon white father who goes to mass every Sunday.
PD2: Only positive comments in this thread, please.

[philipbenr]

For track record, I will just say runs has posted some rather explicit content in the past on the forum without any warning as to the nature of the content. There has also been drama in other topics about explicit content, to which this looks to be a fairly conveniently timed response.

Let me be clear. I am not trying to slander runs. I am saying that the system is incomplete and that he needs to put in more effort clearing up some of the ambiguous terms instead of roughly copy-pasting what PEGI has in what appears to be bad faith. For example, what does "cartoon violence" vs "violence" look like in Minetest, since Minetest as a voxel game is already fairly cartoonish by nature? Does there need to be stipulations for added realism with texture packs? How about using a mod in conjunction with a texture pack that modifies it? Do the swords in the default Minetest Game imply some form of violence? To what extent? Does a mod that adds an ore and make new tool recipes automatically get a "7" rating because you can craft a sword which can be used to kill things, even if there is nothing to kill in your world? Does TNT used to blow up nodes that harm a person count as violence?

There are simply too many questions that are completely subjective if you were to just use this system as is. What one person sees as too explicit, some might not think is that explicit. What some people see as violent, some might think is just cartoon violence. This is compounded by the fact that Minetest is designed well so that content can be used in conjunction with each other, meaning it is way harder to accurately age rate content.

As I said in previous post, an age rating system would be better off being based off of tags. This way you remove Minetest as an ethical middle man, and let the people who are looking at the content for their kids make the decision based on the objective facts from tags. Considering the transparency of what Minetest has to offer compared to games that don't try and spoil the fun, I think most cases of parents trying to moderate content would be fine. If you really want to combine the two, I would just base the age rating system off of the tags to remove the grey areas. If there are weapons or hostile entities, it will be rated for violence. If there are no weapons or hostile entities, it will not be rated for violence. Sure, you may lose some of the nuance, but you don't have any middle ground that can be misconceived.

In the end, you can disagree and use whatever system you want. I just think this one has holes and you should not use a system that has holes for things like this. Better to stray on the side of caution than lead people astray.