Irrlicht has been forked! IrrlichtMt created

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Irrlicht has been forked! IrrlichtMt created

by Wuzzy » Post

The Minetest team has decided to fork Irrlicht! The fork is called “IrrlichtMt” and can be found here:

https://github.com/minetest/irrlicht

The fork was created to have more direct control over rendering, since Irrlicht didn't see a release for many years, so the Minetest developers decided to take things into their own hands.

This means that when you compile Minetest from now on, you must first download IrrlichtMt to build it.

It's an interesting decision, and understandable. Let's see if this will help with eliminating some long-standing bugs or just simplify development in general. :-)

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Re: Irrlicht has been forked! IrrlichtMt created

by philipbenr » Post

It'll be exciting to see what developments might be added to Irrlicht for Minetest. Slightly annoying that its another thing to grab to compile, but I think its probably going to end up being a worthy price to pay.

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Re: Irrlicht has been forked! IrrlichtMt created

by Festus1965 » Post

Might it be possible to post what is going to change on irrlichtmt
that it has the advantage to say I use it ?

Will it be compatible with older versions of mt as 0.4.17 or starting 5.0.1 ??

So far I was looking the source, the changes yet seam to be just name, version ... and the issues are not much yet to see an advantage for an 'risk' change on a server.
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Re: Irrlicht has been forked! IrrlichtMt created

by rubenwardy » Post

Irrlicht is a rendering library, it isn't really relevant to servers except for the maths headers.

Irrlicht has nothing to do with networking, so clients using different Irrlicht versions can play on the same server. You need at least 5.5.0-dev to build with the fork - this is because Minetest needs some changes to work with Irrlicht 1.9-dev. Minetest 5.5.0-dev requires using the fork, you can no longer build with upstream Irrlicht.

It already contains bug fixes for input and MacOS support. There will be further bug fixes to input and graphics.

Upstream Irrlicht is a dead library, forking it allows us to fix the issues that have been marked as "upstream issue" for too long
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Re: Irrlicht has been forked! IrrlichtMt created

by Linuxdirk » Post

rubenwardy wrote:
Sun Apr 04, 2021 13:10
Upstream Irrlicht is a dead library, forking it allows us to fix the issues that have been marked as "upstream issue" for too long
So it’s a fork created out of frustration. Good luck. Nice to see that the devs have so much free time so they don’t only maintain Minetest and MTG but also have time left to maintain a dead 3rd-party engine now.

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Re: Irrlicht has been forked! IrrlichtMt created

by rubenwardy » Post

It's necessary to fix bugs
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Re: Irrlicht has been forked! IrrlichtMt created

by deleted c0a803ab » Post

Wuzzy wrote:
Sat Apr 03, 2021 22:52
The Minetest team has decided to fork Irrlicht! [...]
Nice!
=)

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Re: Irrlicht has been forked! IrrlichtMt created

by Festus1965 » Post

rubenwardy wrote:
Sun Apr 04, 2021 13:10
You need at least 5.5.0-dev to build with the fork - this is because Minetest needs some changes to work with Irrlicht 1.9-dev. Minetest 5.5.0-dev requires using the fork, you can no longer build with upstream Irrlicht.
Ok, understood,
and so I don't need to check out Irrlicht anymore as I stuck at 5.2.0 - bye
and this mean another incompatibility inside MT versions ... (not) nice
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Re: Irrlicht has been forked! IrrlichtMt created

by rubenwardy » Post

Dependency changes aren't incompatibilities
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Re: Irrlicht has been forked! IrrlichtMt created

by Linuxdirk » Post

Of course they are.

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Re: Irrlicht has been forked! IrrlichtMt created

by deleted c0a803ab » Post

Festus1965 wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 02:04
[...] as I stuck at 5.2.0 [...]
Why are you not upgrading to latest stable minetest version?

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Re: Irrlicht has been forked! IrrlichtMt created

by Festus1965 » Post

voxel wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 00:51
Festus1965 wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 02:04
[...] as I stuck at 5.2.0 [...]
Why are you not upgrading to latest stable minetest version?
as of a before legal build in the map from my gamer with also working legal mods is not accepted under 5.3.0 anymore,
under 5.3.0 it tells that it is wrong and stop working ...

so 5.3.0 and further is incompatible to before rules of mods ... or how to say
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Re: Irrlicht has been forked! IrrlichtMt created

by deleted c0a803ab » Post

@Festus1965
I'm not sure if I understand.
Is your problem, that you have a world with mods that do not support > mt 5.3.0?

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Re: Irrlicht has been forked! IrrlichtMt created

by Festus1965 » Post

voxel wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 01:00
@Festus1965
I'm not sure if I understand.
Is your problem, that you have a world with mods that do not support > mt 5.3.0?
not exactly,
5.3.0 and further does not support node constructions that are build on my map
with mods that are still accepted and running under 5.3.0 ...

I might have to delete nodes of my gamer to get 5.3.0+ running, and the 2 days I was searching for those I really stuck to understand why ... and so 5.2.0 is good for me, as I see no advantages in 5.3.0 and further that might be worth it.
Last edited by Festus1965 on Tue Apr 06, 2021 03:07, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Irrlicht has been forked! IrrlichtMt created

by deleted c0a803ab » Post

Festus1965 wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 02:10
[...]5.3.0 and further does not support node constructions that are build on my map
with mods that are still accepted and running under 5.3.0 ... [...]
That's contradictorily.
Festus1965 wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 02:10
[...] as I see no advantages in 5.3.0 and further that might be worth it.
Maybe this: Changelog 5.2.0 → 5.3.0 and this: Changelog 5.3.0 → 5.4.0?
;)

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Re: Irrlicht has been forked! IrrlichtMt created

by Festus1965 » Post

voxel wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 02:21
That's contradictorily.
Maybe this: Changelog 5.2.0 → 5.3.0 and this: Changelog 5.3.0 → 5.4.0?
;)
here is the post of the failure happened with 5.3.0
... and I am not the one have to search the mistake comes up with new 5.3.0

and then ? who guaranty me that 5.4.0 and soon 5.5.0 will not do the same again at another position, build, mod, ... ???
just f... lost time ... as long 5.2.0 is running fine, and all my kids have also 5.2.0 Client ...
never touch a running system.
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Re: Irrlicht has been forked! IrrlichtMt created

by philipbenr » Post

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

And for Festus, it ain't broke.

But for the developers, Irrlicht is broke, so they do have to fix it.

Both are perfectly legitimate.

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Re: Irrlicht has been forked! IrrlichtMt created

by Hume2 » Post

Yeeeeeesssssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have just a small request: Is it possible to make a truncated Irrlicht for Minetest server, which will contain only the math headers? I don't like the fact that the server requires a graphical interface although it doesn't render anything.
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Re: Irrlicht has been forked! IrrlichtMt created

by sfan5 » Post

Hume2 wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 05:38
Is it possible to make a truncated Irrlicht for Minetest server, which will contain only the math headers? I don't like the fact that the server requires a graphical interface although it doesn't render anything.
It doesn't and never has.
You could and can always build minetestserver by checking out the Irrlicht repo (no building!) and specifying the right include path using -DIRRLICHT_INCLUDE_DIR=
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Re: Irrlicht has been forked! IrrlichtMt created

by Walker » Post

+1

i hope irrlicht-mt will be addad to repositories of e.g. ubuntu and debian

and i hope the fork will fix ( in a long run ) the bugs like water is not visible through windows some times

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Re: Irrlicht has been forked! IrrlichtMt created

by sorcerykid » Post

Wow, I'm ecstatic to see this is the direction the coredevs are going. Kudos!

No doubt, forking a project of this scale is a huge undertaking. But I think it's well worth the investment in the long term, particularly given some of the long-overdue bug fixes and feature requests that have been on hold due primarily to Irrlicht "limitations". I do hope that anyone in the community with expertise in either the graphic or sound departments might contribute their talents to this new fork, so we can really showcase Minetest's full potential.

This is some of the best Minetest news of 2021, so keep up the great work :)

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Re: Irrlicht has been forked! IrrlichtMt created

by Walker » Post

sorcerykid wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 14:54
[...] No doubt, forking a project of this scale is a huge undertaking. [...]
which bring me to one big question ... is i not simpler to just drop irrlicht and build minetest direclty on top of SDL / OpenGL / Vulkan ?

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Re: Irrlicht has been forked! IrrlichtMt created

by v-rob » Post

Walker wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 03:25
which bring me to one big question ... is i not simpler to just drop irrlicht and build minetest direclty on top of SDL / OpenGL / Vulkan ?
There's a big difference between OpenGL / Vulkan and Irrlicht. All of them have 3D rendering, sure, but OpenGL and Vulkan only give you the basic stuff you need to render 3D things. Irrlicht, on the other hand, has things like a scene graph that are necessary for Minetest. Now, scene graph libraries exist for OpenGL, but transferring to them would be a much, much bigger undertaking than forking Irrlicht.

I don't thing people understand that forking Irrlicht is not as big an undertaking as it sounds. Most of the stuff we'll be doing with it is fixing up long-standing bugs that we've had to work around because we had no access to Irrlicht's source code. We will probably add very few, if any, fancy new features to Irrlicht except when necessary. Unlike transferring to a new engine, forking Irrlicht takes little code changing and allows for enough bug fixing/features for our purposes.
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Re: Irrlicht has been forked! IrrlichtMt created

by Walker » Post

v-rob wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 17:41
[...] We will probably add very few, if any, fancy new features to Irrlicht [...]
so ... no rgb lightnight, no shaders, raytracing, light from the direction of the sun and all the good stuff ? -.-

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Re: Irrlicht has been forked! IrrlichtMt created

by runs » Post

Very well!

For people who complain:

1) When an opensource project is in limbo, better do run fork and pull forward. New Irrlitcht = New Life.

2) No way Mintetest will ever switch to a new graphic engine. I mean there are problems of time/developers to patch bugs from a long time ago, to throw everything away and start all over again. Don't be delusional and don't waste your time rambling about this change.

3) MT 5.5 with IrrlitchtMT is more fast than ever...

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