needing updates

[DOOM_possum]

we are going to need updates on the base model of this Game

from the MENU, if more ITEM are introduced, there needs to be a right click funtion, for view folders where you save your favorite ITEM

it will be up to the community and independent developers, to make sure, their ideas are able to work with others

the base model is going to need better ideas by and large on it's core features, too, we are going to need SAND chairs, and STONE cookers, because, there is already very little to eat

another idea, that is good to mention, are "Nether Totems", powerful wards, created with ITEM, that fend off any assortment of monsters, but can back fire, if You get to close to them

[philipbenr]

The philosophy of Minetest at this point is that subgames or "games" are first class citizens. If you don't know what that means, check this wiki page out: https://wiki.minetest.net/Games

There's probably something out there that has most if not all of what you've detailed. I suggest browsing through this forum section: viewforum.php?f=48 or looking on the in-game content store.

[cuthbertdoublebarrel]

The philosophy of Minetest at this point is that subgames or "games" are first class citizens. If you don't know what that means,

That is just the devs in a bid to promote the engine rather than minetest , what we will end up with is quirky sub games that they will praise for just bieng unlike minecraft or minetest by the devs . they will be of very little interest to gamers who are looking for an open source alternative to minecraft that they can fully customize with the wonderful selection of mods that have been created by the modding community,

[philipbenr]

The philosophy of Minetest at this point is that subgames or "games" are first class citizens. If you don't know what that means,

That is just the devs in a bid to promote the engine rather than minetest , what we will end up with is quirky sub games that they will praise for just bieng unlike minecraft or minetest by the devs . they will be of very little interest to gamers who are looking for an open source alternative to minecraft that they can fully customize with the wonderful selection of mods that have been created by the modding community,

Mineclone 2 is one of the biggest Minetest subgames (based on the sheer number of posts it has, close to 100 pages worth), so I am not sure what you are talking about. I think promoting games as first class citizens will help move games like Mineclone 2 into the spotlight, decreasing the amount of people that are turned away from Minetest due to Minetest Game. Which in turn will make Minetest look like a better alternative.

[DOOM_possum]

yes, it is good to remember which alternatives have the best features, and which ones provide the most access that other popular titles carry

i'm trying to find some scripts for the hoe, plowing dirt, and normalizing It, that on top of the other systems i have in place, will make My Journey into the FOREST that much more appealing, and might even find some good leather shoes to wear

[cuthbertdoublebarrel]

The philosophy of Minetest at this point is that subgames or "games" are first class citizens. If you don't know what that means,

That is just the devs in a bid to promote the engine rather than minetest , what we will end up with is quirky sub games that they will praise for just bieng unlike minecraft or minetest by the devs . they will be of very little interest to gamers who are looking for an open source alternative to minecraft that they can fully customize with the wonderful selection of mods that have been created by the modding community,

Mineclone 2 is one of the biggest Minetest subgames (based on the sheer number of posts it has, close to 100 pages worth), so I am not sure what you are talking about. I think promoting games as first class citizens will help move games like Mineclone 2 into the spotlight, decreasing the amount of people that are turned away from Minetest due to Minetest Game. Which in turn will make Minetest look like a better alternative.

MC2 is not an alternative but a direct rip off
mtg and its derivatives along with XaEnvironment. exile ,nodcore,etc are the alternatives ,while they have similarities to MC they still provide orginality and do not have the mainstream corporate look of mc2

The only reason people are turned away by mtg is due to the terrible way minetest is represented .
". Play one of our many games,"
here are the many minetest games, how many can you play now ?
https://wiki.minetest.net/List_of_Games.
other communites have provision to load older versions of an engine into the launcher so that those historical games can still be explored .

" mod a game to your liking"

this suggests that all games are compatible with the mods within contentdb ,
not the case is it .
only mtg is truly compatible with the wonderful and ingenous mods that the modding community have created .
The condecending and arrogant attitude towards mtg and new users in the community is absolutely disgusting .
that base game should be the pride and joy of this community and it gets treated like a piece of shit .
MTG has the potential to be the greatest O.S sandbox survival game of all time yet you want to spotlight a direct rip off of an old version of minecraft with no mod support .*facepalm*

[Wuzzy]

The condecending and arrogant attitude towards mtg and new users in the community is absolutely disgusting .

Hate against MTG is always justified. :D

There is just so much wrong with MTG. There are objective, factual things that suck about MTG:
- The vanilla, unmodded MTG is extremely boring to many. You'll exhaust the possible things you can do rather quickly.
- The only exception is when the only thing you care about is Creative Mode. That's the only instance in which MTG is actually acceptable
- Swords, but nothing to fight against
- Biomes look OK but they are useless (in terms of gameplay advantage, exploration is not rewarded, none of the items you can get is unique enough to justify exploration)
- The underground is 99% boring stone
- Imbalanced crafting (steel is OP, all other ores have much fewer uses)
- Lack of depth (you'll reach full diamond tools pretty quickly, only two farmable plants)
- Swords dig leaves

MTG only becomes good when mods that add real gameplay are added. But then, that's actually the achievement of the mod developers and server operators, and NOT the achievement of MTG. Some mods are so complex they are basically games in their own right.
In fact, these achievements were made despite MTG, because MTG is actually holding back progress. The biggest fail in MTG is the 'default' mod.

Unfortunately, many of the things that suck about MTG cannot be fixed due to historic reasons and dependency hell.

Minetest needs fresh new games, not more attention on MTG. It was absolutely the right decision to put MTG into maintenance mode.

I'm not hating on new users tho. That's just not cool.

the mainstream corporate look of mc2

I have heard a lot of criticisms against the MCL2 textures, but “mainstream corporate look” is a new one to me. I think MCL2's textures (based on Pixel Perfection btw) are actually very unconventional and NOT mainstream, and this is also the reason why many people don't like it. Personally, I kind of like the MCL2 textures but I understand people who hate them because of the unconventional style. But I don't understand that they are called “mainstream”. This doesn't make sense to me.

The only reason people are turned away by mtg is due to the terrible way minetest is represented .

No, that's absolutely not the case. MTG is itself the reason why people are turned away because the vanilla, unmodded game is extremely boring.
The core gameplay is just bad. Mods can help fix that, but it still sucks if the base game is bad. Unless the mods overwrite basically everything and basically are games in their own right. But if you go 'full replacement mode' with mods then this raises the question why you needed MTG in the first place instead of making a standalone game.

that base game should be the pride and joy of this community and it gets treated like a piece of shit .

No, absolutely not. It is and always has been a disappointment to newcomers. We need new games. What deserves celebration instead is good servers that use MTG, but heavily modded in a good way. Many server operators who have added huge towers of mods for MTG in their servers are kinda game developers as well. Figuring out the right combination and configuration for mods when you have literally 100s of them can be challenging.

MTG has the potential to be the greatest O.S sandbox survival game of all time

No, it definitely hasn't. Progress has stagnated for years, and even if there were new features, it was often just minor tweaks. Development is ultra-conservative and now that MTG is in maintenance mode, it's not going to improve as well.

Maintenance mode is the only reasonable path forward anyway. It's to support the boatloads of mods that depend on it. Also at this stage also the conservatism makes sense in order to not break things. In the long run, we need new fresh games that aren't held back by (sadly neccessary) conservatism and dependency hell and an overbloated 'default' mod.

yet you want to spotlight a direct rip off of an old version of minecraft with no mod support .*facepalm*

MCL2 is actually very moddable, and APIs are documented extensively. It's just that not many people have bothered to make mods for it.
I wouldn't call MC 1.11 to be that old. Keep in mind that even MC 1.11 is already very feature-rich. If you just look at features, it's not even a competition between MTG and MCL2. However, I know that it's just a clone. I'm not saying this is for everyone.

That having said, I wouldn't recommend putting MCL2 in the spotlight right now. MCL2 has still a lot of bugs. And even if they are fixed I'm not sure. I don't want Minetest to become synoymous with MCL2 either, that would create different problems.

Different games need promotion, but first we need games that deserve promotion.

[cuthbertdoublebarrel]

The condecending and arrogant attitude towards mtg and new users in the community is absolutely disgusting .

Hate against MTG is always justified. :D

You approve of a toxic community then . thats interesting . i have been researching Minetest history, death threats and all .

- The vanilla, unmodded MTG is extremely boring to many. You'll exhaust the possible things you can do rather quickly.
MTG only becomes good when mods that add real gameplay are added.

that is the devs fault for not making it clear that it is vanilla and not a fully fledged game .
And that is the whole point of vanilla . i do not want you dictating what gui to use or the map not bieng present by default. or not bieng to swap out features i dislike .

I have heard a lot of criticisms against the MCL2 textures, but “mainstream corporate look” is a new one to me. “mainstream”. This doesn't make sense to me.

not talking about textures as you have the option to swap them out .
its the lack of content . think of formal gardens in comparison to the wilds of the countryside . MC2 is the vanilla , like comparing the original doom to brutaldoom " Everything in Brutal Doom is extremely intense. Everything sounds louder, looks bigger, moves faster, and hits harder."
even if i set the spawn rate to max and increase the differculty in mc2
it does not even come close to the intensity and immersiveness of mtg modded niether does it have the diversity
MTG has the potential to be the greatest O.S sandbox survival game of all time

No, it definitely hasn't. Progress has stagnated for years,

the same could be said for doom until brutal doom came along and blew up the community big style .

[deleted c0a803ab]

- Swords, but nothing to fight against

Oh yeah?

- Swords dig leaves

How contradictorily Mister!
;P

How ever.. gotta take my sword and go out... Killergrasses attacking my bulding right now!

[freshreplicant]

The condecending and arrogant attitude towards mtg and new users in the community is absolutely disgusting .

Hate against MTG is always justified. :D

There is just so much wrong with MTG. There are objective, factual things that suck about MTG:
- The vanilla, unmodded MTG is extremely boring to many. You'll exhaust the possible things you can do rather quickly.
- The only exception is when the only thing you care about is Creative Mode. That's the only instance in which MTG is actually acceptable
- Swords, but nothing to fight against
- Biomes look OK but they are useless (in terms of gameplay advantage, exploration is not rewarded, none of the items you can get is unique enough to justify exploration)
- The underground is 99% boring stone
- Imbalanced crafting (steel is OP, all other ores have much fewer uses)
- Lack of depth (you'll reach full diamond tools pretty quickly, only two farmable plants)
- Swords dig leaves

MTG only becomes good when mods that add real gameplay are added. But then, that's actually the achievement of the mod developers and server operators, and NOT the achievement of MTG. Some mods are so complex they are basically games in their own right.
In fact, these achievements were made despite MTG, because MTG is actually holding back progress. The biggest fail in MTG is the 'default' mod.

Unfortunately, many of the things that suck about MTG cannot be fixed due to historic reasons and dependency hell.

Minetest needs fresh new games, not more attention on MTG. It was absolutely the right decision to put MTG into maintenance mode.

I'm not hating on new users tho. That's just not cool.

You have a lot of good points, but for me the saddest thing about all of this is that very little of the criticisms of MTG have anything to do with it being objectively bad for what's IN the game. Sure, maybe a few things could be balanced or tweaked, maybe default could be restructured, etc. And yet it seems to me like the most common criticisms are around what MTG is missing rather than what it has. It's missing even some of the most basic, painfully obvious features for games of its genre.

It's like somebody setting out to build a car, but they only finished the chassis. I mean you could say it's a 'terrible car', because...well, it's only a chassis. It doesn't necessarily mean that if they had properly set to working on it that it couldn't have made a good car. As has been expounded ad nauseam, MTG had no real concept behind it, no proper roadmap and yet it also had fairly conservative developers who were very picky about merging anything into the game. It didn't really stand much of a chance at becoming a good game in these circumstances.

For anyone interested in seeing what MTG could have become, it might not sit right that the 'cure' for MTG's problems is to put it on ice, especially when arguably its biggest problem was how conservatively it was developed.

Now that MTG is due to be dethroned as the default game, there is still a part of me that wishes that an actively developed fork would spring up to explore what MTG COULD have been without the notion that it has to be minimal or can't do this or that. Now, I don't just mean take MTG and slap some mods into it and call it a day, but I mean first actually creating a proper game development bible, developing the meagre "late medieval + 'alien' (mese) elements into a real workable concept, invest in worldbuilding and coming up with interesting gameplay mechanics, setting up a roadmap and THEN accepting contributions or if need be integrating mods as an actual part of the game. To my knowledge, nobody has done that yet, despite all the MTG forks or extended versions.

You could just make a brand new game, but MTG already has some recognition. And whether people hate it or not, it still constitutes the foundation of 95% or so of the playable content in this ecosystem. Even if developing it further and restructuring some small bits of it creates incompatibilities with some mods, you'd still be in a better boat for mod support than if I make something entirely brand spanking new that has 0 built in compatibility from day zero.

I'm sceptical of the viability of single-developer games as real challengers to MTG, but I am not against new games at all. If a game arises that has active development with several contributors, a fleshed out (non-clone) concept and all the stuff I said MTG should have had and ideally, works as well for Multiplayer as modded MTG, then I would be willing to give it a go. To win over any significant amount of players, especially those invested in the modded MTG ecosystem, there needs to be enough content to jump into and some indication that it won't just get tossed aside and be archived as a curiosity in its half finished state.

Above all, the one thing that would make me immediately dismiss a game project is any mention that it will be a 'base' or 'minimal' in order to support mods. I've ranted about still elsewhere, but it still boggles my mind how ingrained this concept is in the Minetest community. Modding in most of the rest of the gaming universe happens on top of fully realised games or even on top of proprietary games in active development that don't care about supporting mods. Neither of these two conditions prohibit a healthy, sophisticated or enjoyable ecosystem of mods or an active playerbase from springing up. If anything, having an actual game to mod can help mods achieve a bit more consistency (possibly even better compatibility between mods) or in the inverse, inspire total overhaul mods. It also means that modders won't have to make so many ultra-basic utility mods for things that should have been in the game to start with. On top of that, having a real, fully-fleshed playable game means you actually bring people to a community in the first place. MTG should have taught people that making a 'base' or keeping things ultra-conservative is not a good approach to making a game.

[Eris]

Amen freshreplicant, I wish eveyone could see it this way! :)

[Festus1965]

freshreplicant got the point,
mtg is just a option how to start a set of maybe fixing mods ...
and when you don't like any of the offers in a restaurant go to another or cook yourself = set mods together as you wish
but complaining about MTG is absolute the wrong way