Family Friendly server flag

[Cartmic]

I think a flag to declare if a server in the server list is specifically family friendly or not would a be good consideration with regards to parents introducing Minetest to their children.

I'm going to attempt to implement it myself but I just thought I'd raise it here to see if anyone else would be interested in such a feature.

[Linuxdirk]

How will you make sure that the kids do not simply select another server (either out of curiosity or by accident)? Such an flag would be solely informational.

One solution against accidental selection would be a filter option that sorts out all servers not having a certain flag set or only shows all servers having a certain flag set. In a way this is already possible, because Minetest allows changing the serverlist URL to something else. This could be changed to a list only providing pre-selected servers (either a manual list or a list that is filtered automatically).

The custom serverlist option also works without having to change the server registration API. All that has to be done is changing one configuration options and providing a custom server list.

This of course only prevents selecting a server by accident.

[Cartmic]

How will you make sure that the kids do not simply select another server (either out of curiosity or by accident)? Such an flag would be solely informational.

One solution against accidental selection would be a filter option that sorts out all servers not having a certain flag set or only shows all servers having a certain flag set. In a way this is already possible, because Minetest allows changing the serverlist URL to something else. This could be changed to a list only providing pre-selected servers (either a manual list or a list that is filtered automatically).

The custom serverlist option also works without having to change the server registration API. All that has to be done is changing one configuration options and providing a custom server list.

This of course only prevents selecting a server by accident.

Yeah a filter was what I was aiming for. Perhaps some sort of check if the client has a particular flag that's linked to a password being set somewhere that would prevent the client connecting to a non-family-friendly server.

[sorcerykid]

My server, Just Test Tribute, is anarchy survival. Yet a large proportion of the player-base is kids in the age range of 7-14. The original server owner, maikerumine, was a father whom played with his son. And there have been many other parents with children that have frequented the server over the years -- Prairiesky's family, ExterDad & Kibbie's family, erstazi's family, etc.

Yet I wouldn't go so far as to classify my server as "family friendly", due to the inherent nature of anarchy survival gameplay. Therefore, I feel that such a tag is a bit too vague and subjective, and it may end up artificially filtering out servers like my own that cater to a wide range of players with different backgrounds and different expectations.

It's not a bad idea by any means. But I think it needs to be given more careful consideration of the potential implications.

[ShadMOrdre]

This is an issue that I can't imagine has an easy answer.

I am a father who plays MT with my son. How do I provide a family friendly server? I host my own, private server.

No offense to any server owner, or anyone elses personal beliefs or opinions.... but...

How can you realistically police 3600 square kilometers? How can you ensure that other users are both "family friendly" and that all builds are "family friendly"? What is to stop a user from building inappropriate content inworld? Unfortunately, opening a world to the internet makes the entire world subject to the whims of too many unknowns.

This is an issue that a filter can't solve, simply because server ops have to set the flag, and well, what happens when the flag is set, yet the world provided is not "family friendly"?

One option would be someone, somewhere, would have to be delegated the task of moderating which servers deserve this "flag", and enforcing compliance. Sounds like a service that someone should provide, but who? Getting on the server list is already a moderated activity, so how about we add a further step to achieve "family friendly".

One could provide a website, with appropriate user accounts, and create world accounts and passwords that are provided to registered users. This allows for a degree of discretion in who is allowed to have an account.

This is really the only way server owners can truly offer "family friendly" worlds. Proactive account requirements.

MT is simply software. The server owner is the actual service that is offered as "family friendly". MT is like Apache, only providing a software "service". It is the website using Apache that is in control of the actual content. As such, it can only be the sole responsibility of the server op to ensure that the service being "sold" is the service that is provided.

Just my own thoughts, from an industry insider. This is the age old issue of the internet.

The MT community will have to face this sooner rather than later, and in a way that is far more progressive and proactive, lest we become attached to a less reputable, darker side of the web.

celeron55, ruebenwardy, sfan5, and anyone else listening, please hear these words with the intent from which they are meant. I, and my son, LOVE MT!!! It is truly the BEST piece of software for teaching and entertaining children!!!


Shad

[AmyMoriyama]

My two cents:
Maybe have a config file setting that can be enabled to only show servers with the family-friendly tag. Default will be disabled. This way, if parents want to, they can toggle this config option and their kids will not be able to accidentally go to servers not marked as family-friendly.

Of course, there is nothing stopping someone from marking their server as such when it is absolutely not. So, might also be good to have a "hide server" option. The parent could go through the server list, check the servers, and hide the ones that shouldn't be viewed. This hide server feature would also be useful to adults who just don't want to ever see certain servers.

[PolySaken]

A way to filter servers in general would be useful. Incompatible protocol versions might be hidden by default, for example.

[Mineminer]

This is an issue that I can't imagine has an easy answer.

I am a father who plays MT with my son. How do I provide a family friendly server? I host my own, private server.

Particularly if they are younger it's the way to do it, but bubblewrapping them to these parameters into their later years isn't a good idea either. So you need to stake a balance.

No offense to any server owner, or anyone elses personal beliefs or opinions.... but...

How can you realistically police 3600 square kilometers? How can you ensure that other users are both "family friendly" and that all builds are "family friendly"? What is to stop a user from building inappropriate content inworld? Unfortunately, opening a world to the internet makes the entire world subject to the whims of too many unknowns.

in short it's doesn't works, I adopted the "it's your problems until you notifies me then we will figure it out then".

I still proactively check chat logs and such for obviously illegal shiz, if people are telling players to go "dig a ditch and die" and other EXTREME shiz. But as long as health and safely aren't on the line or the server, etc. Then it's up to YOU as the player to notifies me and talk to me about any concerns.

Both emails and /tellafk are at my players' disposals. And it's the only way in my opinions to be able to man a public gaming server.

[runs]

It already exists the Sammy Rating System by me.

Obviously it is not official, but if you adopt it, you commit to respect it. This is a relief for the parents, because they will know that their children will be in a safe place.

My server will be:


On my server you can interact with other players, give kisses, hugs, etc. in a friendly way, between father and son, and friends, nothing amorous. No dating. No sex.

Obviously some players will use it for the opposite. That's why my server will have several areas. The public one, I am not responsible for anything, the restricted areas I am.

Anyway I will enable family friendly areas, only for children. Only children, accompanied by a responsible adult, may be in these areas. The rest of the players may not, to avoid unpleasant things. Upon request to the admins.

[runs]

Finally I've added a +18 rating to the "Sammy Rating System".



In principle ALL Minetest SERVERS have this rating by default, unless otherwise assured.

[wsor4035]

Finally I've added a +18 rating to the "Sammy Rating System".



In principle ALL Minetest SERVERS have this rating by default, unless otherwise assured.

pretty sure 95-99 percent of the servers on the serverlist dont care about your rating system

[Mineminer]

Finally I've added a +18 rating to the "Sammy Rating System".



In principle ALL Minetest SERVERS have this rating by default, unless otherwise assured.

pretty sure 95-99 percent of the servers on the serverlist dont care about your rating system

Or any ratings at all. I always assume everything goes (barring illegal stuffs OBVIOUSLY) as long as it NOT stated as "Family Friendly" or similar in ya know... the DESCRIPTIONS!

[Komodo]

A just society works together to help raise its young and innocent. Doing so ensures society has a prosperous, moral, and healthy future for everyone.

Its ultimately and primarily a parental responsibility to be involved about where your child is participating on the Internet. Especially with the recent changes in social and corporate culture, youre going to need to stay involved and communicate your values to your kids and supervise who they communicate with in all aspects of your childrens interactions across their lives.

Unfortunately, for some, children are the front line of a culture war that is attempting to sidestep parental guidance. Lots of predators and inappropriate interactions out there too. Mods and admins can help by forbidding dating on servers and forbidding personal info be exchanged.

I hope you find answers you're looking for. If youre just someone concerned about helping families, thank you. I think ShadMOrdre gave a really good realistic and responsible response also.

[Helen Pixels]

I think a flag is a good idea, but as others have said there is no way to enforce it other than parents encouraging and enforcing their children to play responsibly. It shouldn't be on the minetest community to ensure that children don't access inappropriate servers, it is up to parents, much the same as it is also a parents responsibility to make sure that kids don't get hold of other age inappropriate video games, videos...etc. Anything my daughter wants to play, I scout first to ensure it is safe and appropriate for her age. It's also a good idea to educate children in general about internet safety. But, a flag is going to make a parents job much easier to either say yes or no to a particular server, much like you'd use an age rating for a game you'd buy in a shop.

[runs]

I think a flag is a good idea, but as others have said there is no way to enforce it other than parents encouraging and enforcing their children to play responsibly. It shouldn't be on the minetest community to ensure that children don't access inappropriate servers, it is up to parents, much the same as it is also a parents responsibility to make sure that kids don't get hold of other age inappropriate video games, videos...etc. Anything my daughter wants to play, I scout first to ensure it is safe and appropriate for her age. It's also a good idea to educate children in general about internet safety. But, a flag is going to make a parents job much easier to either say yes or no to a particular server, much like you'd use an age rating for a game you'd buy in a shop.

Minetest has traditionally ignored children. What's more, most think that Minetets is a game for adults, they despise children. Because kids are a nuisance, they stink. I once heard one say: "Minetets is an ecosystem by and for developers, the game is just an accessory.

But not Minecraft, lately it has been disneyfied, it is suitable for all ages, and its base niche is children from 8 to 12 years old.

Minetets has set children aside and it should not.

[Komodo]

Ive been seeing lots of my friends' kids playing Roblox on phones and PC's and using chat without supervision. Pretty sad trend. Believe me, there are creeps out there. Seen it too often and have been told really awful stories from survivors of abuse.

That won't be happening when I have my kid. He/she will have a console and some games offline and a PC and only supervised net access until theyre ready.

Not sure theres a technical way to handle that when its more of a social and parenting issue.

Family friendly servers maybe is something a server operator can set in minetest.conf or the game.conf or world.mt ? kind of like the creative or pvp flags? just throwing something out to try to contribute/stay on topic. of course the term "family friendly" is a bit ambiguous and relative to *your* family isnt it?

im not convinced its worth adding as a feature tbh. comes back to parenting and choosing a good server. i think some familys play together and login together. i suspect some hide chats in game, use seperate comms, and vet the games the kids play. seen some player groups like this in my time around here.

i think it just comes back to parenting.

[ShadMOrdre]

From a parent.

Do you have a group of children that your child already knows, with whom they would play?

If yes, host your own server.

If no, ask yourself the following question. "Would you allow your child to wander the streets?" No? Didn't think so. Good parent. Here's some free advise.

There is no alternative.

Shad

[runs]

From a parent.

Do you have a group of children that your child already knows, with whom they would play?

If yes, host your own server.

If no, ask yourself the following question. "Would you allow your child to wander the streets?" No? Didn't think so. Good parent. Here's some free advise.

There is no alternative.

Shad

The Samz is the alternative. A game/server by and for children. Children should not be put in a bubble isolated from reality. It is better to teach them how to handle bad situations, because life will confront them sooner or later.


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[Helen Pixels]

I agree, you can't isolate kids, but at the same time it is important for them to be safe. I see a family friendly server in much the same way as I see any family friendly environment offline: the child has some autonomy but is supervised. One of my daughters friends wanted to play in the park, I was taking my daughter anyway so she could have a play on the climbing frame and swings. Her friend wasn't allowed to come.... in case she fell off and hurt herself. I felt sorry for the kid.

The point I am trying to make is that we cannot isolate children, they have to live and learn just like the rest of us. Teach a kid how to use a climbing frame safely and you can let them play knowing that it is very unlikely that they will come to any serious harm. So it is with internet use. Wrapping them up in cotton wool doesn't help the child to have this necessary learning, and it leaves them ill prepared for later life. Also fretting over each and every small risk only produces excessive anxiety both for parents and children. I know, the risk of your child coming to harm online is not zero no matter how vigilant you are, but then neither is playing on a climbing frame or indeed a lot of other activities.

[Festus1965]

a basic problem is pointed out here anyway

the parents are in charge to decide ...

we as server owner can only give a easier faster help for parent etc. to find THEIR points of importance to declare a server usable for their kids

so WE need to offer some basic facts about the server that they find out faster, or even understand what some settings, mods mean
* no blood anyway
* no fight PvP or even against monster
* well monitored and controlled chat or what time the chat is moderated = clear fast mute aggressor or whatever - or a setting, they can do like hide chat F2
* to be sure no buildings, items are in game or accessible might show, mean ... political, sexual, bulling, whatever meaning

right, it is not us who decide child friendly, we can only follow a well known guide to find out, what parts of game or mods will violate what rule,
and can only offer based on this guide and our knowledge about engine, game and mods what they would like to know

* an unmoderated server is so far then sure not child friendly as long also a chat is free there
* facts like blood, fight, monster or any violation from game characters must be easy to detect if on or off
* builds and other gamer must be 'under control' mean checked time to time, just to tell 'no roleplay' in rules, haha

and so on ...

[ShadMOrdre]

See how easy it was to detract from the original question.

This isn't about "wrapping" my kid in some safety bubble. It IS about keeping away the predators and other unwanted influences. Not wanting my child to be on a server where chat is "moderated" and yet vulgar language prevails is in my childs best interest.

The world around them is the world around them. It will be what it is. My child is exposed to enough just going to the mall. However, my child does not hear the level of vulgarity at the mall, where people are held accountable. In an online game, What ya gonna do to me for saying?" Ban me. You know as well as I, there is only so much a server op can do.

Just look at half of Festus1965s own posts here on the forum regarding the difficulties in preventing third party "hacked" clients.

My child can play a game, in a safe managed environment, and is far from "in a bubble".

Methinks that adults who tell parents "Don't put your kid in a bubble." are grooming the parents to make it easier to get to the kiddos...........

Again, server ops, show / prove that you can police and enforce the rules in a 62km X 62km X 62km space. In game PMs are not policed, tracked, or otherwise monitored. Once a game "friend" has taught your child how to send and receive PMs in game, there goes a parents ability to supervise anything.

This is not bad parenting, this is not over parenting. It is simply pointing out what is otherwise obvious. We've had this discussion repeatedly, with each new media format and device.

Why do you think TikTok is getting such a bad rep? It doesn't matter what policies the corporation implements, you cannot control the actions of a person in that moment. And that is where policing anything, even in the real world, is such a joke.

Shad