What is or how to define true Minetest ?

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Festus1965
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What is or how to define true Minetest ?

by Festus1965 » Post

as of this link I wonder how WE all define a true minetest server ,,,
and of this discussion / wish


give me your explanation ...



ME ?
Minetest is a project ... or a game name and ALSO a engine name ...


Minetest server and client are only the source code (engine),
so every code that is just BASED on the main source I know it NOT minetest engine (fork with own coders)

so then I guess we need to tell always what we mean:
* minetest ENGINE source, or based, forked (as soon a bases or forked need own coder = OUT of true/original)
also
* mods, a mod game other name ? as we have minetest_game (mtg shown as minetest) and its combinations (as me with BrainCraft) but also fully new written mods (as mineclone ??) but still run on original minetest engine !


So my solution:
so as soon I don't see a version 0.4.x or 5.x in the serverlist = NOT mt engine original


as if it is just another GAME, then this might be told after, as at me BrainCraft (a mt mod collection)
but this is secondary as first the server source (engine) counts ...

And I don't mind about that they are compatible also ... first what is a original engine, and mod collection ..

I think we need to make sure we use the same terms BEFORE we starting to discuss about things like linked ...
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Re: What is or how to define true Minetest ?

by TenPlus1 » Post

A minetest server should hopefully run a newer 5.x engine with new features, and on top of that either the minetest_game or a custom [game] with a selection of mods to make the world interesting for players to visit and hopefully stay to play :)

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Re: What is or how to define true Minetest ?

by Linuxdirk » Post

To me a "true Minetest server" is a server that runs a version of the Minetest server application compiled from the unmodified officially available sources (either manually compiled by oneself or by installing such a version using the operating system's package manager).

The type of the game or what mods are used is not relevant for me to define what a "true Minetest server" is.

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Re: What is or how to define true Minetest ?

by Festus1965 » Post

Linuxdirk wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 06:56
To me a "true Minetest server" is a server that runs a version of the Minetest server application compiled from the unmodified officially available sources (either manually compiled by oneself or by installing such a version using the operating system's package manager).
I change line #1366 line in /minetest/src/serverenvironment.cpp

Code: Select all

u32 max_time_ms = m_cache_abm_interval * 1000 / 5;
with result = 200 ms ABM -to- 666ms ABM time by

Code: Select all

u32 max_time_ms = m_cache_abm_interval * 1000 / 1.5
so ?
* as of modified code this is no original true minetest server anymore - I am using a fork ?
* or that is a setting, could also be done via minetest.conf ?
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Re: What is or how to define true Minetest ?

by Linuxdirk » Post

Festus1965 wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 07:40
* as of modified code this is no original true minetest server anymore - I am using a fork ?
It is a modified version. Not enough to call it a fork, I guess, but still modified and thus no "true" Minetest server anymore, as in true == unmodified.
Festus1965 wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 07:40
* or that is a setting, could also be done via minetest.conf ?
We all know that the devs love hardcoding stuff :) ... But you can actually control the ABM interval value in minetest.conf

https://github.com/minetest/minetest/bl ... 1533-L1540

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What is or how to define true Minetest ?

by Festus1965 » Post

we go one step further: the version check connect from minetest 0.4.17 is unmodified,
when someone put it into the 5.x version as [0.4 + 5.0] both is original code ...

but is that a modified as both code existed in original also same unmodified... or is it even also a true minetest ?
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Re: What is or how to define true Minetest ?

by Linuxdirk » Post

Festus1965 wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 08:53
but is that a modified as both code existed in original also same unmodified... or is it even also a true minetest ?
If the code is modified it's modified. There is no room for funny interpretation. If code is modified or not is not a philosophical contemplation it's a matter of fact.

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Re: What is or how to define true Minetest ?

by Festus1965 » Post

Linuxdirk wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 08:56
If the code is modified it's modified. There is no room for funny interpretation. If code is modified or not is not a philosophical contemplation it's a matter of fact.
THANKS for this clear ...
but as 5.4.1 is modified from 5.4 ... this mean, main offered source are unmodified ... as 5.2 server is also true as a 5.4.1


ouch ... I didn't realize when I was searching for the ... problem
Linuxdirk wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 07:44
We all know that the devs love hardcoding stuff :) ... But you can actually control the ABM interval value in minetest.conf

https://github.com/minetest/minetest/bl ... 1533-L1540
so, soon I am back original unmodified minetest server ... wow, I can stay in the list !
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Re: What is or how to define true Minetest ?

by Linuxdirk » Post

Festus1965 wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 08:57
but as 5.4.1 is modified from 5.4
Don't ridicule yourself ... OF COURSE is 5.4.1 a modified version of 5.4. Different versions are absolutely not the point! It's about modifications AFTER a download form the official sources was made.

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Re: What is or how to define true Minetest ?

by Eris » Post

*facepalm*
Jump in the caac

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Re: What is or how to define true Minetest ?

by Wuzzy » Post

First of all, let me clarify: "Minetest" only refers to the engine. There is no game called "Minetest". There is a "default game" for Minetest, but its name is "Minetest Game", not "Minetest". This name was chosen specifically to distinguish it from the engine.

Your Minetest is the true Minetest if it was compiled from the official source code without changes to the code or data.

Otherwise, it's technically a fork, no matter how small the change. This view on forks is pretty much the consensus in the FOSS community.
"fork" doesn't mean anything inherently good or bad and is NOT a moral judgement. It just means it's different. But we have to be strict about this distinction (fork vs non-fork), otherwise we'd be muddying the waters too much, which is not good if you discuss software. Precise language is key.

Also, the version number is competely irrelevant to this discussion. What matters is whether it comes from the official source code repository.

Note that all games are completely separated from the engine. The existence of games and mods is thus irrelevant to the original/fork status of Minetest. You have to see games and mods to be separate entities.

By the way: Changing the compilation parameters (with CMake) does not count as "code change" (and thus, a fork), so it's still considered to be the true Minetest if you don't use the standard compilation parameters.

SUMMARY:
  • Minetest = the engine
  • Minetest Game = the default game of Minetest
  • Your Minetest installation is the true Minetest if it was compiled from the official, unmodified source code. Otherwise it's a fork of Minetest. The version number does not matter. The installed games and mods also don't matter.

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Re: What is or how to define true Minetest ?

by Festus1965 » Post

Wuzzy wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 20:34
SUMMARY:
  • Minetest = the engine
  • Minetest Game = the default game of Minetest
  • Your Minetest installation is the true Minetest if it was compiled from the official, unmodified source code. Otherwise it's a fork of Minetest. The version number does not matter. The installed games and mods also don't matter.
so how can I detect the normal standard massive used clients for there source, when they connect ?
do we have a mod therefor ,,, telling me the version ? mean wanna see 5.x or 2.0.0 !!!
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Re: What is or how to define true Minetest ?

by Linuxdirk » Post

Festus1965 wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 09:27
so how can I detect the normal standard massive used clients for there source, when they connect ?
You can use minetest.get_player_information(player_name) on player join. This gives you a table containing the protocol version and formspec version supported by the player's client. Unfortunately the actually pretty useful version information is not available on normal client builds for unknown reason.

https://github.com/minetest/minetest/bl ... 4492-L4517

You can also use minetest.get_version() to get the server's unreliable and annoyingly formatted version string. The highlighted section also shows a good practice to check for individual functions.

https://github.com/minetest/minetest/bl ... 4531-L4542

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Re: What is or how to define true Minetest ?

by Festus1965 » Post

Linuxdirk wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 09:56
You can use minetest.get_player_information(player_name) on player join. This gives you a table containing the protocol version and formspec version supported by the player's client. Unfortunately the actually pretty useful version information is not available on normal client builds for unknown reason.

https://github.com/minetest/minetest/bl ... 4492-L4517
Nice Idea, Thanks,
BUT ... during the Prejoin the the gamer is not "there" yet ... I get nil,
I get the print of name and ip of that prejoin, but the playerInfo is nil (now about 10 to 0, not one got info)

and especial I would like to know what clients source (version) are the ones mismatched at me so much
also would be nice to the those that don't realize the password ...
to analyze the source of that much problems
* why do mismatched clients (as seam to be 0.4.x) can see my server so massive and try to much
* a problem if matching clients, that if connect, fail to see the password
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