Ghosts

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nextmissinglink
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by nextmissinglink » Post

doyousketch2 wrote:Just saw this ghost mod and thought the skeleton mod I'm making kinda fits in.

Image

Maybe when you die, your body decays into a skeleton, then you float away as a ghost...
errmm could you make a lying down skeleton aswell
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this is ment to be secret http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php ... 467#p86467

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markveidemanis
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by markveidemanis » Post

Please update this to work with the latest minetest.
Latest minetest: https://github.com/minetest/minetest
Ghost: https://github.com/hdastwb/minetest/tree/ghost
I really like this client and would like it to become part of minetest.

If someone has the time, please update this.
Thank You
Last edited by markveidemanis on Sat Apr 13, 2013 13:45, edited 1 time in total.
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doyousketch2
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by doyousketch2 » Post

nextmissinglink wrote:
errmm could you make a lying down skeleton aswell
yep, getting to that. want to make it so when you right-click the skeleton it rotates, so you can put them in any position.

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by 4aiman » Post

Attention of core devs needed, so BUMP!
Please, read the whole topic and tell us whether features discussed here would be merged if coded properly or not.
Regards!

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by BorisGrishenko » Post

This is very practical in the world of gaming. I highly approve of this.
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by hdastwb » Post

markveidemanis wrote:Please update this to work with the latest minetest.
Latest minetest: https://github.com/minetest/minetest
Ghost: https://github.com/hdastwb/minetest/tree/ghost
I really like this client and would like it to become part of minetest.

If someone has the time, please update this.
Thank You
It should be updated now

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tinoesroho
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by tinoesroho » Post

To tell the truth, any C++ coding would probably be ignored- Minetest is about flexibility, and core code isn't all that easy to swap out. Recompiling sucks! If you could turn it into a LUA-based mod, I'm pretty sure you'd see it in the Common-game pack pretty soon.
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issa
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by issa » Post

hello
interresting, how to lunch it !

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tinoesroho
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by tinoesroho » Post

Aw, heck. Anyways, I've got an idea or two on how it could be done- check for player death, revoke interact, grant fly and noclip. And change the player skin/model. I like the way it was done in the lua, but I really, really don't like the idea of having something that doesn't really disappear or is hard to remove.
We are what we create.

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by hdastwb » Post

tinoesroho wrote:Aw, heck. Anyways, I've got an idea or two on how it could be done- check for player death, revoke interact, grant fly and noclip. And change the player skin/model. I like the way it was done in the lua, but I really, really don't like the idea of having something that doesn't really disappear or is hard to remove.
This can't really be implemented in a mod; as mentioned in the first post, just about all of the basic changes are client-side. Specifically, what absolutely cannot be done in a mod is:
  • getting rid of the respawn screen that blocks players from moving while they are dead
  • reviving players once they are no longer dead
  • removing HUD elements that are irrelevant to dead players
  • blocking actions that dead players are unable to do before they are done
Also, while changing privileges can simulate ghosting to some extent, it isn't entirely adequate. Just because we grant someone fly doesn't necessarily mean that they have it on; if they have it off, they won't float until they turn it back on. noclip would be the same way; my example implementation lets people float through walls without noclip but does not draw anything when they do so. Revoking interact won't really stop one from digging, it'll just make their digging disappear once the server finds out about it; this sort of ruins the illusion of being unable to interact with the mortal realm.

Changing player skin, however, is definitely something that should by done by Lua and probably something that should be done in a better manner than my somewhat hacky code that re-sets the texture at each step. However, if more interesting rendering techniques are used they will most likely fall out of the range of what can be done with the modding API and maybe even require some shader support.

I'm not going to get into ghost nodes or ghost items yet, though I will say that there does not seem to be any way to change the visibility of a node based on the health of a player, or based on just about any other local player parameter for that matter.

When you say that you would not like to see something that doesn't disappear or is hard to remove, are you referring to the native code needed in the clients to support this? If so, I should think that a real implementation of this would have some interface to the Lua in order to configure it and games could use as much or as little of the ghosting functionality as they wish. In particular, they should have the option to turn it off entirely (or never turn it on) if the game calls for it.

But, yes, it does seem to be difficult to get features like this that cannot be done in mods supported by the engine; and in the absence of word from the core devs I would assume they would drop it.

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by 4aiman » Post

I asked on minetest-dev about this and...
Basically, Celeron55 refused to add anything that won't be used by anything but ghosts. So make up some uses for every feature we need, then maybe he reconsider.

Anyway, please, everyone, check for yourself: http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest-dev/201 ... #i_3046227

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nextmissinglink
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by nextmissinglink » Post

doyousketch2 wrote:
nextmissinglink wrote:
errmm could you make a lying down skeleton aswell
yep, getting to that. want to make it so when you right-click the skeleton it rotates, so you can put them in any position.
wow! cool
IF in doubt hit it with a hammer
This is a signature virus. Add me to your signature so that I can multiply id10t ERROR
do not abuse me i am 11 and i like hitting things with a hammer that may include you
this is ment to be secret http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php ... 467#p86467

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tinoesroho
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by tinoesroho » Post

Basically, certain engine changes are needed if this were to be a mod- things like:
* Replacing the "respawn" screen with a hook for a LUA prompt, allowing it to be configured by server.
* Changing the HUD per player via LUA
* Have it so the client doesn't interact if interact is revoked.

... And it sounds like they did discuss HUD and configurable death screen. Even if it doesn't get implemented this go-round, the hooks will eventually allow Ghosts to work as a mod.

I'm not surprised that it won't be accepted as is. celeron55 is adamant that the engine shouldn't be game-specific, but something flexible to make a ton of things possible (and configurable).
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by 4aiman » Post

Yeah, but this engine-oriented approach make Minetest boring. I'll explain: Minetest has Lua API which is great and engine improvements to add more Lua callbacks possible are fascinating. However, that's all about it.
What can one do in minecraft?
Well, one can do following regarding no special order:
- build
- hunt
- go into farming (you should eat to recover HP and stay alive. )
- go into farming of domestic animals (to gain resources and meat)
- go into farming of hostile mobs (to gain XP and loot, like arrows)
- go into farming of NPC (to take advantage of their services)
- go to 2 different realms
- hunt in both an take realm-specific blocks
- go fight bosses
- discover the art of alchemy any time before of after you beat the boss
- spawn a boss and make a competition
- pvp fights
- dungeon exploration
- mining
- make an NPC to protect other NPCs and be chased by that NPC for rudeness towards it's "clients"
etc...

In Minetest one can:
- build (in al it's forms!)
- kill mobs (they don't give any XP or valuable loot like arrows, which makes hunt pointless. Besides, peaceful mobs do not run away if you hit them.)
- go into farming (No need to feed oneself, there's no hunger and plenty of apple trees)
- go into farming of domestic animals (MOBF add smth like this but what for? One can heal by the mean of apples, so no need in other food. It's just too much trouble to make a mob farm to get food compared to having an apple)
- go into farming of hostile mobs (No XP, no special loot crafting which in relatively expensive. So, why bother?)
- go into farming of NPC (There are crafters, but actually I don't know whether they can spawn and live if one build a house for them. Either I don't know if MT's NPC can reproduce themselves.)
- go to 2 different realms (MT has buggy nether, with no special mobs or minerals, which occupy only part of the "planet" layers. Also world generation takes up to 10 minutes on a single cored 2.93GHz CPU. Also MT have floating islands, again, w/o specific blocks, but there's no point in collecting "ender sand" in MC anyway. Well, floating island were added and now they need some more use.)
- hunt in both an take realm-specific blocks (there are realm specific blocks for nether. But their only function is decoration while in MC every block have it's own "hardness" or "explosives-proof" parameter. And nether bricks in MC is way harder to break than stone bricks. But this can be done in Lua, so let's move on.)
- go fight bosses (There are no bosses at all. MOBF doesn't work for me properly, so there's no mobs but simple. Simple mobs are good but have problems with mobs self-defence. PilzAdam, I really want simple mobs be improved, if you care to listen to my suggestions, please, PM me.)
- discover the art of alchemy any time before of after you beat the boss (there is a potions mod, but it lacks types of potions, cause there's no point to have improvements... ;)
- spawn a boss and make a competition (Not simply spawn, but undergo a certain ritual. Can be done in Lua, but regular mobs goes first)
- pvp fights (the only thing that bothers me is damage system. But I can't really say, that pvp should be easy. Perhaps it's a plus, perhaps not.)
- dungeon/temple exploration (didn't see any dungeons, didn't see any temples in Minetest. Guide me, please with seed and coordinates ;)
- mining (in al it's forms!)
etc...

And many of equal Minetest features is done via mods which aren't in the default game. Prepackaged custom games are used instead. Or one can make his/her own compilation.

Now, Ghosts will add a unique feature, opening gates to a different realm within existing one. But for invisible to alive buildings, desaturation and other things the engine should be tweaked. I'd agree with celeron55 if this additions would break anything that exists for now. But if it wouldn't, then why not? There will be several more features in the engine - that's all. For example 2 different sets of textures can be used to make fake/secret blocks, unseen until certain conditions. There are mods which do this, but swapping many nodes through Lua isn't fun at all.

I'm glad, that at least HUDs and death screen are finally discussed, though.
W/o game-specific features Minetest will be boring unless there would be a possibility to add some feature via lua.
For ghosts it's 2 sets of textures (for alive/dead), lua HUDs, hardware lighting, deathscreen moved to lua.
For minitest it's animated wield item and animated wielditem's textures, as well as head movements and a different crouch animation.
For dwarves it's basic AI in C++ or some other way to make mobs sane.
2 of 4 for ghosts were considered possible and being worked on. Personally I want other 2 too. Why both? Well, 2 sets of textures require big changes, but hardware lightening require them also. So why not add this if changes will be made anyway? (At least no one denies hardware lightening is a desired feature).

I speak to much probably. That's only my opinion. But if anyone want ghosts's changes in the engine, he/she need thought of different possible uses of any feature needed by ghosts...
Last edited by 4aiman on Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:42, edited 1 time in total.

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PilzAdam
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by PilzAdam » Post

4aiman wrote:- go to 2 different realms (MT has buggy nether, with no special mobs or minerals, which occupy only part of the "planet" layers. Also world generation takes up to 10 minutes on a single cored 2.93GHz CPU. Also MT have floating islands, again, w/o specific blocks, but there's no point in collecting "ender sand" in MC anyway. Well, floating island were added and now they need some more use.)
You forgot nyanland.

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by 4aiman » Post

PilzAdam wrote:You forgot nyanland.
I didn't know one exists to begin with.
Anyway, what can you bring from Nyanland to ordinary land? Several new blocks without any real purpose but decorating? New blocks in new realms sadly doesn't have anything useful... I just want Minetest to have more edges and more faces. Right now it's all about building or fighting with other players. In singleplayer it's boring, cause there're no other players, just mobs that either follow you in packs or staying the point they were spawned. Ideas like ghosts can give Minetest it's face. At least as a MMO game.

Maybe We don't need 2 texture sets, instead teleporting dead players to the dead lands. Ghosts will be able to operate with blocks in "ghostly" group and won't be able to operate with normal ones. Hud should disappear if there're any non-ghotsly block around.
But this "workaround" need a faster generation of the world around teleported player. And what can I propose then? I don't know how to improve world-generation to make it faster, so I have nothing to discuss in this case :(
Last edited by 4aiman on Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:58, edited 1 time in total.

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by Calinou » Post

4aiman wrote:but there's no point in collecting "ender sand" in MC anyway.
It has 50% better blast resistance than stone (also, it's called End Stone :P), it also gives a lot of MCmmo XP (as much as coal) when mined.

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by 4aiman » Post

I don't care how it's called in English, cause neither it is my native language nor it changes the fact that you actually did understand what I was referring to :P

PS: Useless, cause too much trouble to get. Besides to get away with all your XP you need to slain the Ender Dragon. I'd rather mine coal or red stone. Also there is nether brick and obsidian for those who have a thing about high blast resistance. Anyway, there's no such thing in Minetest and this time I agree that end stone XP == coal XP is a lame feature. Who needs coal amount of XP If he/she had slain the Dragon?

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SilverWolfLily22
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by SilverWolfLily22 » Post

I dont know if anyone else said it because i didnt read through but this could be awesome for hunger games maps :)
I love hunting ;)

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