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About when will we get proper mobs in minetest?

PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:43
by SilverWolfLily22
It is a matter of importance my friend wants to play but would like mobs and the mods are pretty laggy.
Thanks xx

PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 13:41
by Calinou
http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=3063

Simple Mobs shouldn't be too slow, especially if you have LuaJIT installed and used.

PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 18:58
by sfan5
The point is that many people will dislike the game because it has no mobs by default

PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 20:18
by tinoesroho
The point is, people will dislike the game if there are mobs.

I know I, for one, patched out generating of the C++ mobs back in the 0.3.1-0.4dev days. Mobs, by default, detract from the beauty and wonder of the game.

PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 23:44
by kaeza
tinoesroho wrote:The point is, people will dislike the game if there are mobs.

I know I, for one, patched out generating of the C++ mobs back in the 0.3.1-0.4dev days. Mobs, by default, detract from the beauty and wonder of the game.

There's an unused 'only_peaceful_mobs' setting in minetest.conf(.example). It could be added to the GUI (and mob mods modified to respect it), so people that don't like aggresive mobs have an easy way to disable them.

Edit: Personally, I don't care if they are in default or not (I'll add a mod if they are not), but seeing that many people want mobs for a more challenging survival game, it will be a nice feature.

I don't see that happening soon though.

PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 03:38
by Mossmanikin
I'd say mobs should be part of the game.
Maybe there could be two buttons in the menu to enable/disable spawning of passive mobs and aggressive mobs.
I'm not talking about my personal wishes here. I can use mods for mobs if I like and that's ok for me.
It's just that this way nobody would lose. Neither the people who dislike a game with mobs, nor the people who dislike a game without mobs.

PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 04:59
by tinoesroho
Meh. The C++ mobs weren't very modder friendly, and celeron's promised Mobs API has been lost somewhere between electrical schooling and chatting up the IRC channel. And putting a mod in by default would simply be annoying; mobs lag a lot thanks to the design of the Lua API (which wasn't designed for it), so it would be really lousy for multiplayer and those on slower processors. We've had enough feature creep already.

PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 11:13
by PilzAdam
<celeron55> someone get drunk or something and just put mobs into upstream
<celeron55> i'm starting to see that the only way 8D


Many people already annoy me to put Simple Mobs in upstream, but
tinoesroho wrote:And putting a mod in by default would simply be annoying; mobs lag a lot thanks to the design of the Lua API (which wasn't designed for it), so it would be really lousy for multiplayer and those on slower processors. We've had enough feature creep already.

PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 11:42
by qznc
So we need an efficient Lua API for Mobs, before they can go into default?

Surely a lot of AI stuff is resource-intensive and must be written in C++.

PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 14:36
by Evergreen
I think before mobs can be added, there has to be an AI in the default game for mobs, a setting in the minetest.conf.

PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 14:41
by PilzAdam
qznc wrote:Surely a lot of AI stuff is resource-intensive and must be written in C++.

Simple Mobs has almost no AI.
Evergreen wrote:I think before mobs can be added, there has to be an AI in the default game for mobs, a setting in the minetest.conf.

What has minetest.conf to do with this?

PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 15:00
by Evergreen
PilzAdam wrote:
qznc wrote:Surely a lot of AI stuff is resource-intensive and must be written in C++.

Simple Mobs has almost no AI.
Evergreen wrote:I think before mobs can be added, there has to be an AI in the default game for mobs, a setting in the minetest.conf.

What has minetest.conf to do with this?

Meaning, you can turn mobs off and on.

PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 17:14
by Jordach
Suggestion:

Write code for mobs in core, then wrap Simple Mobs around it.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 19:39
by SilverWolfLily22
Guys! We need mobs. This game is not very fun without. I mean exploring and building is okay for a while but it is not realistic at all. Or even is we didn't want realistic mobs would be a good part of the game.
It is still a huge turn off for me not having mobs. And even simple mobs aren't very nice.
I agree we need a button to set mob spawning etc for other people but they are being a but selfish here .
Mobs will probably get more people playing the game too.
That's my two cents anyway

PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:58
by vv221
SilverWolfLily22 wrote:I mean exploring and building is okay for a while but it is not realistic at all.

Exploring and building (and mining, and crafting…) are the purpose of Minetest.
Being realistic is not ;)

PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 15:08
by sfan5
qznc wrote:So we need an efficient Lua API for Mobs, before they can go into default?

Surely a lot of AI stuff is resource-intensive and must be written in C++.

There is a C++ Pathfinding algorithm in Minetest

PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 15:09
by PilzAdam
sfan5 wrote:
qznc wrote:So we need an efficient Lua API for Mobs, before they can go into default?

Surely a lot of AI stuff is resource-intensive and must be written in C++.

There is a C++ Pathfinding algorithm in Minetest

Pathfinding isnt a problem at all. Simple Mobs does no pathfinding and still doesnt work very good.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 15:20
by sfan5
PilzAdam wrote:
sfan5 wrote:
qznc wrote:So we need an efficient Lua API for Mobs, before they can go into default?

Surely a lot of AI stuff is resource-intensive and must be written in C++.

There is a C++ Pathfinding algorithm in Minetest

Pathfinding isnt a problem at all. Simple Mobs does no pathfinding and still doesnt work very good.

I was talking about things like pathfinding being resource-intensitive

PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 18:27
by Sokomine
When people ask for mobs, the question is what they want them for. The purpose of those in Minecraft seems to be to give the player something to fight against and a threat which makes survival more difficult (along with all the other factors that try to kill you in that game). I have no idea how satisfied players who want this aspect are with either simple mobs or mobf(ramework). Simple mobs seems to be at least more present (due to lesser ressources used and beeing simpler). Do the fighting/survival aspects of both mods make those players who want that happy? Or are the mobs from existing mods too dumb?

The other aspects one may want mobs for are an improved scenery (the world looks much more lived-in if there's the occasional animal roaming around) and farm animals. The first aspect can be handled by both mods quite well.

Farm animals are more difficult. Neither mod is perfect in that respect. Simple mobs has some basic luring-animals/feeding them, but that's about it. Caught sheep just jump on each other and escape over the fence. Peaceful/neutral animals are rare in that mod. Mobf is far better suited for keeping farm animals. It has breeding and lots of animals - not only monsters. Unfortionately, it is rarely seen on servers. Neither mod protects "owned" animals against theft or murder by other players.

"Owned" farm animals could also be much dumber than their free counterparts. That might even be more realistic. All they'd have to do is run around a bit on their fenced-off grassland, sleep/eat/stand from time to time, and produce a message if someone besides their owner wants something from them. No need to take care that they don't fall into a pit or drown - if the owner didn't take care, it's his problem, and he has to buy or breed new ones. That's what I'd like to see :-)

PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 19:20
by sfan5
Another Thing:
IMO When Simple Mobs or Mobf get added to upstream, only the 3D mobs should get added.
That way it'd make a better impression to new players.
But 1 or more 2D mobs like rats wouldn't hurt.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 19:43
by Sokomine
Rabbits, squirrels...all those could be further small mobs (they work fine in 3d) if someone did a model for them.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 20:28
by Jordach
I suggest we add simple mobs now, and continue to simplify the codebase until it performs almost like the C++ ones used to act like.

The amount of mobs on screen should also be very low, unless youre talking about the dungeon masters, which used to spawn in the hundreds near mese, could be a gameplay thing.

Other mobs, such as stone monsters, should spawn and place tell tale signs of mossycobble on the floor.

Dirt monsters should drop dirt on the floor, and sand monsters drop sandstone.

Oerkiis should rarely drop an obsidian fragment, while Dungeon Masters can drop mese fragments super rarely. (Perhaps a crystal with a 0.00000001% chance.)

Another suggestion is that Dungeon Masters could drop bones, giving the player a way to harvest bones.

PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 02:49
by tinoesroho
>.<

How 'bout no? Minetest is already rather laggy, although we've managed to disguise it somewhat thanks to LuaJIT and other engine improvements. Also, feature creep. Adding features for the sake of adding features without good rationale ("let's do it just because!") that could fundamentally alter the game? If people want mobs, they can install a mod. But don't force bloody unfinished hacky stuff on the public because some Minecraft(ard) wishes that a free and open source game was exactly like Minecraft. Mobs'll be added when we've got a flexible, moddable API nice and stable. Not a moment early.

PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 03:09
by Inocudom
tinoesroho wrote:>.<

How 'bout no? Minetest is already rather laggy, although we've managed to disguise it somewhat thanks to LuaJIT and other engine improvements. Also, feature creep. Adding features for the sake of adding features without good rationale ("let's do it just because!") that could fundamentally alter the game? If people want mobs, they can install a mod. But don't force bloody unfinished hacky stuff on the public because some Minecraft(ard) wishes that a free and open source game was exactly like Minecraft. Mobs'll be added when we've got a flexible, moddable API nice and stable. Not a moment early.


What exactly causes Minetest to be laggy like that?

PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 02:59
by Josh
Some mobs like some lightweight animals & monsters would be nice. As long as the Oerkii looks different he really scares me lol.