What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

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webdesigner97
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by webdesigner97 » Post

Evolykane wrote:
Calinou wrote:
Evolykane wrote:The big, big, big Problem with minetest is, minetest was created for really bad Computers,
the aim of the devolopers is the highest possible performance.
This will subconsciously take the opportunity of the players with normal or good PCs to have a fun game play!

Why is the Mobfight boring in Minetest, but not in Minecraft?
In Minecraft you are fighting against liquid animated monsters while in Mintest a static mob object is flying towards you.
The reason is that in Minecraft much is calculated client side,so that the server has to carry much less load and secondly rapid liquid reactions and animations are made possible.

Another reason is that on the whole large Minecraft servers, there are city or guilds structures (such as Towny, Heroes).
Without the possibility to have a good organized competition of two or more groups of players (like guilds wars, who has the highest wealth, the largest population, or the largest city, and so on...) or the ability to play role-play like (level, Magic, mini-games, becoming stronger enemies, guild system ...).
If this Idea goes on minetest will die no later than 10 years, when the computer from 1980 broke and also the poors have better computer at last.

For example I want to play Minetest with nice and fancy graphics,
please do a LUA Possibility for Code calculated Clientside, maybe with an option like "allow Clientside Calculation" for bad PC users.
The mobs are also server-side in Minecraft, but have some more prediction done on them. While useful, client-side Lua is quite overrated. What you want is more C++ stuff for prediction (see node placement prediction, entity position interpolation…).

Minetest works well, really well on modern high-end computers. Expect a constant 60 FPS there, with an high viewing range, even with multi-sample anti-aliasing enabled (Minecraft has no possibility to enable MSAA by default).
My Pc is 3 Years old and not the best, but gets Minetest with constant 110 FPS with all options activated, I have no Problems with new features,
but because people with bad PCs, everybody must renounce such, this makes me angry and should change!
Then you should be happy. My quite modern PC has massive framedrops to <15 fps with all the "heavy" options....

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Krock » Post

webdesigner97 wrote:
Evolykane wrote:My Pc is 3 Years old and not the best, but gets Minetest with constant 110 FPS with all options activated, I have no Problems with new features,
but because people with bad PCs, everybody must renounce such, this makes me angry and should change!
Then you should be happy. My quite modern PC has massive framedrops to <15 fps with all the "heavy" options....
Modern? Old? I can show you my young PC with FPS from 8 to 26.
I really like how minetest can handle near to all PC's and even slower mobiles, I hope it will stay this way.

EDIT: Well, the graphic card is more important than the CPU in this game.
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by OryHara » Post

its missing the new eula thats gonna kill minecraft, lol.

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by MirceaKitsune » Post

Since I felt like playing MineCraft again, while still working on MineTest, it's one of those times when I jump from one to the other and get to notice differences more easily. Although I said a lot of things in the first post, it's becoming more clear what I think Minetest is missing, and why it doesn't make you feel compelled like MineCraft does. Here's a new list with my thoughts:

- Biomes: This is where I think MineTest fails to create a pleasant environment first and foremost! In minetest_game everything looks the same... just some hills with trees and occasionally a desert biome. You don't feel like you have what to explore, and the world looks so small and synthetic it's rather depressing. I especially realized that after I tried this awesome mod, which adds the first breathtaking environments to Minetest. Until MT gets a game that uses Mapgen V7 with a good and large set of default biomes, little else matters.

- Mobs: minetest_game doesn't have any living beings saturating its world, which seals an obvious fate. And while PilzAdam's Simple Mobs offers a stable mob framework with a good set of creatures for starters, I found that it doesn't do much to fix the problem either. When I join a Minetest server that uses mobs, I typically find that players mind their own business while mobs simply walk around to the side feeling lonely. In MineCraft the player is compelled or constrained to interact with mobs; Each have diverse attacks and special abilities, they spawn close to your home during the night and actually attack you, and defeating them gives you items and experience (or anything of use at all). Lastly, mobs in Minetest need more details! They need to make sounds (ambient, battle, etc) and give a better feeling of awareness and reaction. Also, seeing the selection box on monsters sucks IMO.

- A good menu and HUD design: As much of a detail as it might seem, I found that this adds a lot to the quality. In minetest_game, the menus and hotbar are just gray squares on a transparent black rectangle. In MineCraft, I enjoy seeing the menu a lot more with its stone tablet design and texture. Also, I have to say that MineTest would feel better with a textured crosshair. I'm not sure why, but for me MC's crosshair feels much nicer compared to MT's little thin lines.

- Better textures: The textures in minetest_game are much better than the ones in minimal. Yet even they feel washed out and rather dead to me. I tried out other texture packages (of the same resolution) yet none or few provide a better experience. In MineCraft it's all more colorful and vivid; The days feel bright and sunny and energetic, the nights dark and magical, while underground it feels more grim and cave like. One suggestion would be increasing the saturation a bit on the default textures to make "the grass greener", and the contrast to make some sharper, although a new set might be the only way.

- Progression and purpose: This was discussed before, but I wish to list it again because I consider it so very crucial! A strong reason why MineTest doesn't compel you to do much is that there isn't a need to do something at all! Just cut a tree, mine some rock and coal from a nearby hill, and you've made a home that you can sit in without further concerns. No need to get a workbench to craft your tools, no need to farm for food so you don't starve, no need for a bed to set your home location, an anvil to improve or repair items, anything. MT needs to give the player activities... based on things to create out of items which require you to go somewhere and get! Being in Minetest will never offer anything even remotely close to "exciting" without this.

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by rubenwardy » Post

I agree with all those comments.

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Evergreen » Post

rubenwardy wrote:I agree with all those comments.
+1 I think the reason minetest doesn't have all those gameplay elements by default is that minetest is sort of meant to be an engine, not a game. It seems to me that the goal as of now is to create a better modding api so people can create better games (sub-games?) from it. For instance, if entities are improved in the api, you can make better and more interactive mobs.

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by MirceaKitsune » Post

Evergreen wrote:+1 I think the reason minetest doesn't have all those gameplay elements by default is that minetest is sort of meant to be an engine, not a game. It seems to me that the goal as of now is to create a better modding api so people can create better games (sub-games?) from it. For instance, if entities are improved in the api, you can make better and more interactive mobs.
That's certainly the most important goal, no doubt there. But in my opinion, having such an awesome engine without a world to its level, is like having the fastest coolest and most expensive sports car in the jungle where there's no place to drive it. You can only keep it in a garage, get in the driver's seat to admire the interior, start the engine to hear it roar, wash it, and that's about it.

Minetest is currently appealing and usable from a creator's perspective, and a place to go if you wish to put your idea in a Lua script or code for the engine. While that's awesome, I believe it's only half of the coin, and will only get us this far. People also need to be in MT because they enjoy doing stuff there, and find quality and activity.

In a sense, the two also go hand in hand; What's the use to spend hours creating a Lua mod which adds an awesome new item, when there isn't an appealing world to spend time using that item in? Such as exploring to mine the materials for it, crafting it, placing it in your home, and using it periodically. I've made a few mods myself, and now I realize I only use them in-world when testing them, never as part of a game I actually enjoy playing.

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Evergreen » Post

MirceaKitsune wrote:
Evergreen wrote:+1 I think the reason minetest doesn't have all those gameplay elements by default is that minetest is sort of meant to be an engine, not a game. It seems to me that the goal as of now is to create a better modding api so people can create better games (sub-games?) from it. For instance, if entities are improved in the api, you can make better and more interactive mobs.
That's certainly the most important goal, no doubt there. But in my opinion, having such an awesome engine without a world to its level, is like having the fastest coolest and most expensive sports car in the jungle where there's no place to drive it. You can only keep it in a garage, get in the driver's seat to admire the interior, start the engine to hear it roar, wash it, and that's about it.

Minetest is currently appealing and usable from a creator's perspective, and a place to go if you wish to put your idea in a Lua script or code for the engine. While that's awesome, I believe it's only half of the coin, and will only get us this far. People also need to be in MT because they enjoy doing stuff there, and find quality and activity.

In a sense, the two also go hand in hand; What's the use to spend hours creating a Lua mod which adds an awesome new item, when there isn't an appealing world to spend time using that item in? Such as exploring to mine the materials for it, crafting it, placing it in your home, and using it periodically. I've made a few mods myself, and now I realize I only use them in-world when testing them, never as part of a game I actually enjoy playing.
That kind of seems like freeminer's goal, it just isn't as stable, and it doesn't run on slower computers.

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by philipbenr » Post

I have one real problem with Mt's default TP.
The grass.
This may be weird, but every time I hear about think about it, I want to punch in my screen. It is really that aggravating. I'm sorry, but whoever made that grass tile did a really bad job on it... :P I really agree with MK's comment above. Anyhow, I will be trying to make a really nice looking TP with some nice textures, imitating what MK was hinting at above. It will probably be 32x32 or 16x16.

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Calinou » Post

philipbenr wrote:I have one real problem with Mt's default TP.
The grass.
This may be weird, but every time I hear about think about it, I want to punch in my screen. It is really that aggravating. I'm sorry, but whoever made that grass tile did a really bad job on it... :P I really agree with MK's comment above. Anyhow, I will be trying to make a really nice looking TP with some nice textures, imitating what MK was hinting at above. It will probably be 32x32 or 16x16.
32 × 32 texture packs are problematic for inclusion in a game as the default, because mods are almost all using 16 × 16 textures.

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by philipbenr » Post

Yes, I know this. Still, I intend to make this into a natural beauty texturepack, which will sort of enhance the game up. Think about this:
Minetest is now bundling up some games to come with it, so why not include some TP's? I think that I might do 16x16 and a 32x32 version

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Enke » Post

I think bundling up games(subgames) is a good idea. Either that, or offering downloads of Minetest straight from minetest.net with a set of mods already included, but not in a game form. Like if the user had installed them themselves. Users looking for a game focused around building could download a Minetest packaged with homedecor, moreblocks, etc. Those who want survival could download a game with mobs, hunger, and specialties. Those who don't have computers capable of large amounts of mods could stick with just minetest_game. Finally, we could package a lot of mods together for users with powerful computers.

I'll take a chance to derail the topic by wondering why nearly all Minecraft clones feel that their duty is to use 16x16 textures? Preserve the status quo!
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Mcc457 » Post

Enke wrote:I think bundling up games(subgames) is a good idea. Either that, or offering downloads of Minetest straight from minetest.net with a set of mods already included, but not in a game form. Like if the user had installed them themselves. Users looking for a game focused around building could download a Minetest packaged with homedecor, moreblocks, etc. Those who want survival could download a game with mobs, hunger, and specialties. Those who don't have computers capable of large amounts of mods could stick with just minetest_game. Finally, we could package a lot of mods together for users with powerful computers.

I'll take a chance to derail the topic by wondering why nearly all Minecraft clones feel that their duty is to use 16x16 textures? Preserve the status quo!
+1. That would be a brilliant move. An element Minecraft doesn't have. However we might need to change Minetest_game to something like Vanilla, or Essentials or Basic

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Krock » Post

Enke wrote:Finally, we could package a lot of mods together
That's a nice idea but there are some mob-mods which contain the same mobs.
Also, there are some re-worked and simply DEAD, deleted and incompatible mods.
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Enke » Post

Krock wrote:
Enke wrote:Finally, we could package a lot of mods together
That's a nice idea but there are some mob-mods which contain the same mobs.
Also, there are some re-worked and simply DEAD, deleted and incompatible mods.
Right, talking about large numbers of popular mods.
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by shaneroach » Post

I'm pretty sure for me it is the lack of music and sound effects. Even without the monsters, music adds so much.

I find the comments about textures somewhat confusing as I thought those would be easy to change via mods, but apparently no one has taken that on.

I've been away from Mine-everything for several months, but I am surprised given all the progress in Minetest the engine that the mod community has not filled in the specific gaps mentioned in this thread.

Mobs is probably also a big deal. The Mobs in Minecraft are pretty superfluous throughout much of the game, but by the time you get to the Nether and The End, they become more challenging, and of course all the animals supply stuff used in crafting. But again, seems that would be a pretty straight forward mod.

Looking forward to trying out some new Minetest stuff though!

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by miner_role » Post

Spam Control for servers with no Admin present !

Maybe limit message size to 200 characters.

Or have the server discard 'repeated string' messages.

Or one message per 20 seconds per player limit.

As it is at the moment a user can spam with repeated long messages and block the screens of all other players.

Or shadowban their comments, so only they see them and others can keep playing without the screen being filled.


A minor annoyance because I can just quit and find another server, but other players have no idea what is going on.

(This is merely a suggestion. I understand the amount of time it takes to code an amazing game like this. Take or leave this proposal as you see fit) ps Thanks for Minetest.

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Krock » Post

miner_role wrote:Maybe limit message size to 200 characters.

As it is at the moment a user can spam with repeated long messages and block the screens of all other players.
Yes, a char-limit per message would be very useful for such cases.

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by miner_role » Post

Krock wrote:F2 hides chat
Thanks Krock, this is the exact kind of solution I was looking for.

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Rain » Post

I think what Minetest really needs is someone who develops the game and asks himself questions like:
- does mining really feels like fun?
- does building feels fun?
- does farming feels fun? etc.

I think there is a lot room for improvements. This project needs some gameplay-oriented developers who think like: ok this doesn't feel fun, so i tweak and improve this until I like it.

This is really what Minecraft does better. Mintest does not MISS anything. But the elements are not balanced and optimized from a gameplay-and-fun-oriented point of view. Please don't think too technical. Optimize the game that it FEELS good to play it.

In the earlier versions of Minecraft, Notch said something like: I'll add things to the game. If it does not feel fun, I will remove it.

(Sorry for my bad english)

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Evergreen » Post

Rain wrote:I think what Minetest really needs is someone who develops the game and asks himself questions like:
- does mining really feels like fun?
- does building feels fun?
- does farming feels fun? etc.

I think there is a lot room for improvements. This project needs some gameplay-oriented developers who think like: ok this doesn't feel fun, so i tweak and improve this until I like it.

This is really what Minecraft does better. Mintest does not MISS anything. But the elements are not balanced and optimized from a gameplay-and-fun-oriented point of view. Please don't think too technical. Optimize the game that it FEELS good to play it.

In the earlier versions of Minecraft, Notch said something like: I'll add things to the game. If it does not feel fun, I will remove it.

(Sorry for my bad english)
Sadly, that is not the goal of the developers. It seems to me that the goal is to create an engine, not a game that is fun to play with lots of in-game items, features, and such.

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by twoelk » Post

Evergreen wrote:...Sadly, that is not the goal of the developers. It seems to me that the goal is to create an engine, not a game that is fun to play with lots of in-game items, features, and such.
and?

This should not stop brilliant game designers to build a well working game using the minetest engine.

Sure it is not a one click download a top game of every genre in a single file sollution. Maybe the homepage needs to be more clear on the possabilities and the work a player has to do by finding the game and/or map that fits best the game he has in mind.

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Evergreen » Post

twoelk wrote:
Evergreen wrote:...Sadly, that is not the goal of the developers. It seems to me that the goal is to create an engine, not a game that is fun to play with lots of in-game items, features, and such.
and?

This should not stop brilliant game designers to build a well working game using the minetest engine.

Sure it is not a one click download a top game of every genre in a single file sollution. Maybe the homepage needs to be more clear on the possabilities and the work a player has to do by finding the game and/or map that fits best the game he has in mind.
That is true. People really don't use minetest as an engine, but as a game. If a person who is new to minetest plays it, they are going to judge it by what comes by default. (which is why it is a good thing more games are being included in 0.4.10)

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by bloodyax2000 » Post

Honestly, I prefer minetest mining (caves and such) over minecrafts.

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by srifqi » Post

bloodyax2000 wrote:Honestly, I prefer minetest mining (caves and such) over minecrafts.
I agree. Minetest has ~60000 blocks tall (Minecraft: 256 blocks tall)
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