What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

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Hamguy
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Hamguy » Fri Aug 15, 2014 14:25

-Minecraft
+feels solid
+has basic objectives you can achieve without forcing you to do any
-Gather resources
-Create Tools
-kill mobs
+Build boring static building
-Redstone
-farming
+tools break


-Minetest
+gather resources
-Gathering resources doesn't have very good feel, when you break it its instantly in your inventory and the sound effect is shit.

--Sound affect is a huge factor in why minetest is shit. all the sound affects sound like shit.

bang on your desk for moment and realize how it sounds, now bang on your desk again and imagine it sounding like a small click. it sound fucking shit and not right.

+Minecraft is extremely boring, minetest can be much much better, but the devs are retarded and dont realize how to improve the game so they imitate minecraft in order to make a good game. that is the reason its failing, anyone trying to imitate rather than create original content is always going to be shit compared to the original.

"but we are trying to clone minecraft" that is why you are failing, you didnt even clone the damn game its boring as shit. even with minecraft having completely moronic "boss" battles and shit with no purpose whatsoever, they at least give you something to do.

+Even though minecraft dosnt officially have a devkit, its writtin in a language anyone can mod for on any platform.
-Make it much easier for people to mod your shitty clone and watch it flourish. i have great ideas that i simply cant implement because i cant be bothered to learn how to code for such a complicated process.

-You may think you are doing a fine job but you are very slow compared to thousands of users generating content.

"B-b-but open source!!!" Get your head out of your ass, open source dosnt mean shit. Even if minecraft cost $50 and minetest was free people would still get minecraft over minetest.

No one gives a shit about opens source, open source is always lacking. provide something that is useful and works than go on about something irreverent as open source.

that is the problem with the Open source community, even when a company like valve wants to bring in their software on the linux operating system, you bitch because for profit company is now supposed to provide everything they offer for free because you think your shitty open source shit even remotely compares to proprietary software. Fuck off!
Last edited by Hamguy on Fri Aug 15, 2014 14:33, edited 2 times in total.
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by sfan5 » Fri Aug 15, 2014 14:30

Hamguy wrote:<useless and partially wrong rant omitted>
You man think you are doing a fine job but you are very slow compared to thousands of users generating content.

Maybe thats because everyone is doing this voluntarily and for free?
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Hamguy » Fri Aug 15, 2014 14:32

sfan5 wrote:
Hamguy wrote:<useless rant omitted>
You man think you are doing a fine job but you are very slow compared to thousands of users generating content.

Maybe thats because everyone is doing this voluntarily and for free?


So maby you shouldn't complain why people are using some other software rather than your shit.

how about you focus on making it easier to code and maby provide a easy to use sdk so others can help you.

people make mods for minecraft for free are they complaining?
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by sfan5 » Fri Aug 15, 2014 14:38

Hamguy wrote:
sfan5 wrote:
Hamguy wrote:<useless rant omitted>
You man think you are doing a fine job but you are very slow compared to thousands of users generating content.

Maybe thats because everyone is doing this voluntarily and for free?


So maby you shouldn't complain why people are using some other software rather than your shit.

how about you focus on making it easier to code and maby provide a easy to use sdk so others can help you.

people make mods for minecraft for free are they complaining?

1) I'm not complaining about Minecraft
2) If you can't be bothered to learn to program you should not attempt to do anything with programming and complain if you are not able to.
3) Most Minecraft mod downloads are monetized with adf.ly
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Jordach » Fri Aug 15, 2014 14:43

Hamguy wrote:
sfan5 wrote:
Hamguy wrote:<useless rant omitted>
You man think you are doing a fine job but you are very slow compared to thousands of users generating content.

Maybe thats because everyone is doing this voluntarily and for free?


So maby you shouldn't complain why people are using some other software rather than your shit.

how about you focus on making it easier to code and maby provide a easy to use sdk so others can help you.

people make mods for minecraft for free are they complaining?

http://reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/ ... wn/ciozegx

Now shush.
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Sokomine » Fri Aug 15, 2014 15:20

Hamguy wrote:-Gathering resources doesn't have very good feel, when you break it its instantly in your inventory and the sound effect is shit.

Seems you didn't find the checkbox for turning creative mode off. Each time you start your world, you can choose between creative mode (with instant digging and no point in ressource gathering) and creative off (like survival in Minecraft). You can also enable/disable damage with another button.

Hamguy wrote:+Build boring static building

For me, building detailled, intresting buildings is the main objective of the game. Anything else is just additional. If that's diffrent for you, it's fine. But perhaps you do like other types of games more? Don't try to play a game that's so far from the type of gameplay you obviously like!

Hamguy wrote:so they imitate minecraft in order to make a good game

About half the people who know Minecraft complain that it's not *exactly* the very same thing, while the other half complains that it is far too similar.

Hamguy wrote:-Make it much easier for people to mod your shitty clone and watch it flourish. i have great ideas that i simply cant implement because i cant be bothered to learn how to code for such a complicated process.

It is extremly easy to mod Minetest. Far easier than modding Minecraft. But if you can't be bothered to learn anything at all, there's no way of helping you. Most people have great ideas. We'd have world peace by now if a simple idea would be enough to change the world!

Hamguy wrote:No one gives a shit about opens source, open source is always lacking. provide something that is useful and works than go on about something irreverent as open source.

You're free to see it that way and use whatever open source programs meet your needs and ignore the rest. The real advantage of open source is a diffrent one. If you just want something that works for now and don't care of tomorrow, closed source may be sufficient. Tomorrow, you'll buy new programs and new hardware. Other people have higher expectations.

It seems to me that even Minecraft isn't the right game for you and you're looking for more action. Fine. There are plenty of other games out there. There's no point at all in playing one you don't like. It's playing after all! You're supposed to have fun. If you don't, choose another game.
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Kilarin » Fri Aug 15, 2014 17:21

Hamguy, your language and tone are, well, less than helpful, and don't do you great credit. Constructive Criticism is far more likely to be listened to than expletive filled rants.

If you come in and say, "The sounds in Minetest are too quiet. I would prefer louder, more realistic sounds. The current sound set breaks my sense of immersion in the Minetest environment and reminds me that I am just playing a game." Then folks might listen, respond, perhaps make changes based on your feed back.

BUT, when you come in and say: "You guys program like a pile of fetid feces. The sounds are stinky poop. Because of the sounds, I think your game is a heap of smelly excrement. I think open source is a big stack of coprolites. I don't care about open source, and that means that NO ONE cares about open source, and any of you who think otherwise have been doing a visual inspection of your lower intestines! If you disagree, then please go and have a solitary sexual experience!"

Well, that kind of post is just going to make people say, "He's a stupid jerk, who seems to have a strange obsession with bowel movements. Kinda sad really." And they are unlikely to get past that to paying any attention to your actual criticisms at all.

You didn't pay anything for the game, why has using it made you so angry?

I'm going to try and address some of your issues as if you had posted a more constructive criticism :

EruditeHamGuy wrote:Sound affect is a huge factor in why Minetest is does not satisfy my current gaming needs

My son's complaint with the sound effects is that they shift so drastically in volume. Walking on stone is pretty quiet, step onto sand and the sound is suddenly blasting out quite painfully. I don't notice because I tend to just turn the sound off. The good news is that it's quite possible to edit and replace all the sound effects in mine test, so this can be easily addressed.

EruditeHamGuy wrote:but the direction of the development team seems backwards to me. instead of taking Minetest in a new direction they imitate Minecraft.

I'll have to disagree with you on this one. The Minetest dev team seems to be saying constantly on here "Minetest is NOT Minecraft, we don't have to do things the same." And the dev team seems far more interested in building an engine that can be modded into many different kinds of games than in producing game content. That's why they actually froze default_game for a while. So I think you are blaming the wrong people.

What we need isn't a major change in how mine test is being developed, but a lot of new and interesting mine test games coming out. And there I think you are jumping the gun. There are quite a few interesting minetest games out now, and a lot more being worked on and coming out. These are games with radically different focuses. Some focus on building, some on survival/adventure, some on exploration, and some on other goals. And that is one of the wonders of the Minetest platform. That it can be turned into virtually anything you want. Look at the Minetest games in another year and see what you think.

EruditeHamGuy wrote:You may think you are doing a fine job but you are very slow compared to thousands of users generating content

I think you are misunderstanding exactly what is going on in the mine test community. The devs build the engine. The content is being built by those thousands of users. There is some overlap, of course. Some of the developers also make content. But they do it in different roles. Look at More Trees, Plant Life, Mobs Redo, DreamBuilder, Sea, River/Mountain Range mapgen, Wasteland, Beds complete rewrite, Castles++, Etherial,Carbone, Mesecons, Farming Redo,Home Decor, Moon Realm, Underground Realms, Skytest.

That's just a small semi-random sample of the user content being generated for Minetest. Minetest doesn't have even a fraction of the user base of Minecraft, so I think what has been developed for it by users is very impressive, and just the tip of the iceberg of what will be developed in the near future.

EruditeHamGuy wrote:Even though Minecraft doesn't officially have a devkit, its written in a language anyone can mod for on any platform. If you make it much easier for people to mod Minetest you will see it flourish. I have great ideas that I simply cant implement because I cant be bothered to learn how to code for such a complicated process.

Here you have everything exactly backwards. While yes, it is true that Java is a language known by a lot of programmers, modding Minecraft isn't simple even for Java programmers because, as you stated, it doesn't have an official dev kit. The Minecraft design makes it especially difficult for non programmers to modify it.

Minetest, on the other hand, does everything in a way that makes modifying it simple, even for non-programmers. Would you like to add a new node? Just copy the code for an existing node similar to what you want, and make the changes you wish. Lua is designed for scripting, and while it has it's own particular idiosyncrasies (what coding language doesn't?), it is very simple for programmers to learn, and not too difficult for non-programmers to learn. Certainly simpler than Java.

Minetest's Lua interface needs some further documentation, and a very serious security overhaul, but so far, everyone I have heard from who has coded for both Minecraft and Minetest admits to the superiority of the modding interface for Minetest. I think you would find Minecraft to be a much more complicated environment to implement your great ideas in.

So, I would challenge you to give Minetest modding another chance. There is no way to build a modding interface that doesn't require learning a bit. The Minetest API is about as simple as I think it is possible for it to be. There is a 16 year old boy who wrote his own map gen in it. And my 15 year old son has even done some modding in it. I think the best (and easiest) way to learn the Minetest Lua API is to look at other people mods and see how they did things. Pull up some examples, ask questions on the forum when you have them, and give a little bit of time (because it WILL require some of your time), and then show us some of your great ideas. We would love to see them! And we (at least *I*) promise to be more gentle in critiquing your project than you were in critiquing Minetest. :)
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by aldobr » Fri Aug 15, 2014 22:17

+Even though minecraft dosnt officially have a devkit, its writtin in a language anyone can mod for on any platform.


Minetest can be easily modded using Lua. What the fuss ? I find lua easier to novices and more portable than most other languages.

About minetest being shit, minetest can be a lot of things, from shit to the best game ever. It depends on the mods you installed. Default game is quite boring and is intentionally kept this way. Choosing the right server to play can work wonders. I am currently playing LinuxGaming and find it quite a nice server.
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Krock » Sat Aug 16, 2014 07:00

Hamguy wrote: -You may think you are doing a fine job but you are very slow compared to thousands of users generating content.

No one gives a shit about opens source, open source is always lacking. provide something that is useful and works than go on about something irreverent as open source.

Fuck off!

Are we robots?

I give a shit, open source means, you'll never, ever will need to pay for it.

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by MirceaKitsune » Sat Aug 16, 2014 10:42

Hamguy wrote:No one gives a shit about opens source


I do actually. I spend most of my time behind a computer screen, and no longer use any closed-source software at this day (with small exceptions, such as Minecraft). I have Linux, play FOSS shooters like Xonotic / Warsow / etc, RTS games like MegaGlest, of course Minetest, and more. I even use the non-proprietary video drivers for gaming (MESA / Gallium). So don't talk for everyone at least... there are people like myself who think open-source is awesome and stick to it.
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by onpon4 » Sat Aug 16, 2014 12:12

There are also people like me who care that Minetest is free/libre software and absolutely refuse to use any proprietary software that can be avoided.
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by bitsflashing » Mon Sep 01, 2014 23:39

Beautiful music.
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by jojoa1997 » Tue Sep 02, 2014 03:38

bitsflashing wrote:Beautiful music.

I was actually talking with someone recently about how nice and peaceful the music sounds in Minecraft and then played Minetest about an hour later and realized how void it is of sounds. I know that people say they play with sounds off but not everyone does. Though the main problem is getting someone good in sound making to make the sounds for Minetest.
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by CaptainCanti » Tue Sep 02, 2014 03:40

I think the main problem, as others have said, is that basic survival isn't as fun. You don't have to worry about hunger, shelter, and things of that nature.
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by jojoa1997 » Tue Sep 02, 2014 03:47

CaptainCanti wrote:I think the main problem, as others have said, is that basic survival isn't as fun. You don't have to worry about hunger, shelter, and things of that nature.

Oh of course. I just meant the main problem about sounds.
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by LazerRay » Wed Sep 03, 2014 14:37

Its easy to fix the issue with the lack of music, there is a Minetest mod that adds music and other background sounds to the game.

As for the survival aspects, again there are mods to tailor the game to your play style, I personally despise the hunger system and super hostile mods of Minecraft (among other things), I like it where you can actually survive the world and gather resources anytime, not just during daylight.

I think there should be another thread or an addition to this one, what Minetest has over Minecraft, for me its the ability to customize the game how I like with the built-in mod API, yes Minecraft may have a ton of mods out, but you have to re-download them every time the game is updated, if the mod developer was able to keep up with the changes (Several Minecraft mods I used to enjoy are now dead due to the update spam, and formally compatible mods are scattered across incompatible game versions), but with Minetest you can run and experiment with mods how you like with out much worry about them dying off within a few weeks.
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by jojoa1997 » Wed Sep 03, 2014 18:36

LazerRay wrote:Its easy to fix the issue with the lack of music, there is a Minetest mod that adds music and other background sounds to the game.

I have two problems with this. 1) The mod that you are talking about made my computer very laggy. 2) What is it with just add a mod. I think this thread is about what the game that is shipped with Minetest is still Missing over Minecraft. Enough with the just add a mod because that is bs. Some people dont want to add a bunch of mods when they only need a couple of basic features from each mod.
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by asydn » Wed Sep 03, 2014 22:24

What you DO have is a well writen game that you can modify to your exact liking, the unfortuate part is that it's limited to YOUR imagination and how far YOUR willing to go to make it a reality. I got to the party late and only just started looking into it. I'm a C++,C,ASM and java programmer who didn't want to learn lua either, but if I'm to get what I want I'll have to. The community here seems excellent and constantly comming up with new things. Perhaps the problem lies more in deciding what exactally what you want and sticking with it. Just my 2 cents.
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by jojoa1997 » Thu Sep 04, 2014 00:03

asydn wrote:What you DO have is a well writen game that you can modify to your exact liking, the unfortuate part is that it's limited to YOUR imagination and how far YOUR willing to go to make it a reality. I got to the party late and only just started looking into it. I'm a C++,C,ASM and java programmer who didn't want to learn lua either, but if I'm to get what I want I'll have to. The community here seems excellent and constantly comming up with new things. Perhaps the problem lies more in deciding what exactally what you want and sticking with it. Just my 2 cents.

Well here are my thoughts on your two pennies.

What you DO have is a well written game that you can modify to your exact liking,

Please well written? The fact that I have to add mods and make my own to get what I want, which I do, is a perfect example to why minetest_game is not good. Well written as in no bugs due to minimalist nature is true but I have seen mods depend on mods which depend on mods. I have been playing MT long enough to get bored with the base game.

the unfortuate part is that it's limited to YOUR imagination and how far YOUR willing to go to make it a reality.

First of all the second YOUR should be you are or you're and unfortuate is actually spelled unfortunate. Second my imagination and "willing" to make it is not nil, and, when I joined, the community made a lot better mods with the limited API than most modern mods. Also there are limits to what can be done in Minetest without needing really good background in math or a really good understanding of coding. A great example would be that I really want the ability to have nodes give of different colored lights, but alas that topic was already fought and lost by another person. So in order to make it reality I have to learn to code in C++, understand the irrlicht engine, and compile Minetest on my Windows computers, which I have tried countless times but just does not work, to add a feature that I want. Now that seems like an unrealistic wish with my current time restraints. Another thing I forgot to meantion is that the obsidian and the way it is made, well I fought for it to be added and coded it myself. I made that texture. So I already did what you suggested! Obsidian

I'm a C++,C,ASM and java programmer who didn't want to learn lua either, but if I'm to get what I want I'll have to.

Ok so...pretty much... you are a programmer that did not want to learn lua, but that either put in there means that you assume that I also did not want to learn lua right? Also I already made mods which I have published. Also for a great example just look at my mods, which are not all my mods since I do not publish them anymore
.
The community here seems excellent and constantly coming up with new things.

Ahem I am apart of the community thank you very much. Also when you have been around for a long time you do see new things for example tons of mods that add a couple blocks...or items...or is a map gen...but I do not see many unique mods like Jeija's mesecons, VanessaE's mods, which are also just items but are made to allow her to build stuff for her needs, paramat's with his genius math lang generator, and the mods of Calinou, keaza, PilzAdam, and the other members of Minetest that have been around for a long time. I just checked the first three pages of Mod Releases and about a fifth of them are new mods. That I still have seen something similar in the past. It seems like the community has been constantly updating mods and making tweaks through new mods with a couple interesting mods here and there. Also I would love to see the mod where you had to learn lua to implement your idea.

Perhaps the problem lies more in deciding what exactly what you want and sticking with it.

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Now I am only saying this because in the first couple months I might have spammed but that was due to ignorance. The fact is it takes a while to make that many posts. Second Look at when I joined the forums. I actually started playing Minetest right before school started in August so that is 764 days or 2 years and and around a month, given I started playing Minetest on July 31st, which is wrong because I was in the middle of July. The only reason I joined in December BTW is that I wanted to join VanessaE's server which required me to request privs in the forums on the topic. In my opinion that length itself is sticking with it.

I normally would have ignored a comment like yours, but the fact that it was so rude and had no thought in it at all except for assumptions and the surface of things, I just had to answer. To all the people making mods, I do not mean to offend you by saying a good chunk of the new mods are bad in my opinion. That is just my views of them not catching my interest.

Edit: A link was messed up due to square brackets being in them.
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by asydn » Thu Sep 04, 2014 03:51

First, thank you for correcting my grammer and spelling, I really do need to allocate more time to this if I intend on posting. Because you have the fifth most posts is only a testament to the need to be heard, not necessarily having something important to say. So rude ? Really ? Prehaps it was an attempt to shed light on the possiblities. Learn to code, don't learn to code, that's a personal choise and does take a great deal of time and effort, but the comment was directed to style, other then being sparsely commented it is well written. Regards.
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by rubenwardy » Thu Sep 04, 2014 08:34

I like the whole engine/mod system, but it shouldn't affect minetest_game.

I think mesecons should be added to Minetest_game. Server owners can remove it.

I make mods I feel like making. Sometimes I get an insight of how to hack the engine, such as finite water / water plus. I recently starting playing with the CPP source.

Polish is still missing from Minetest. The new inventory has improved this, but not a lot. The labels in the main menu is messed up and in the mod store too. Polish is the lack of bugs, the cleanness of the ui and the 'immersiveness' of the game. I think ambient sounds should be added to the client.

I've said all this before.
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by jojoa1997 » Thu Sep 04, 2014 10:05

asydn wrote:First, thank you for correcting my grammar and spelling, I really do need to allocate more time to this if I intend on posting. Because you have the fifth most posts is only a testament to the need to be heard, not necessarily having something important to say. So rude ? Really ? Perhaps it was an attempt to shed light on the possibilities. Learn to code, don't learn to code, that's a personal choice and does take a great deal of time and effort, but the comment was directed to style, other then being sparsely commented it is well written. Regards.

The entire post wasn't rude and I am sorry if I came off a little strong, it was late for me and I had a really bad day, but I still stand by my points.

On a different note if anyone looks at minetest 0.4.3 to now the changes are huge, and Minetest has developed it's own ideas too, though the year long feature freeze did not help.
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by SAMIAMNOT » Thu Sep 04, 2014 21:07

I think I have to dissagree with yall. Minetest is very fun and addictive! The only thing I wish for there to be are as many (maybe more!) elements as there are in Minetest, mobs, sounds and garrunteed universal map support.
Can Minetest be improved? Yeah! But I wouldnt complain.
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by SAMIAMNOT » Thu Sep 04, 2014 21:22

Though I cant say nothin for sounds. My desktops speakers are broke.
And you should be able to play your own music by dragging it into a Background Music folder.
Though if you really wanted awesome music in the background (im actually not really a "music in the background annoying me when im trying to concentrate" guy) couldnt you just play some in iTunes or something?
I test mines.
 

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philipbenr
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by philipbenr » Thu Sep 04, 2014 23:02

Please don't double post. Just a formality. Try using the edit button too.

I also agree with you. There should be some music that can be dragged into a background music folder. But there should also be some default music. There is a large collection at opengameart.org
 

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