What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

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MirceaKitsune
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by MirceaKitsune » Thu Oct 16, 2014 14:39

LazyJ's point is interesting and comprehensive, and gave me new insight on the current name actually. I used to think Minetest was always a temporary name, meant to illustrate that the project is in testing stage. But if I think about it, this name can also have another meaning: You create worlds, and test how they work or test the possibilities you have. That's something I didn't think of before... the name feels more relevant and correct if I look at it that way.
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Evergreen » Thu Oct 16, 2014 17:06

4aiman wrote:How 'bout renaming the default game and advertise that instead of the engine's name?

FM is trying to blend the engine and the default game and is not very concerned with other games. That's understandable - they want to polish at least 1 game.

MT has more games and behaves much more like an engine. It is targeted to give an opportunity, to grant more choices and to decide what kind of a game you like most.

So, why not turning in players with the default minetest_game?

Rename it, polish and state everywhere that a game is EMPOWERED by the MineTest - an engine that enables one to test his\her skills in a vast voxel world? Call it "Origins" or "Classic" or anything that will look great with the following:

Some time ago there were news about bundling more than one game with minetest.
Cool. Every game should have title like "Minetest: Carbone" (Engine_name: game title). Sounds and looks like a poster of a new installment of a great series (comp. "The Elder Scrolls: Morrowind"). As for me, I wouldn't mind if my game will be under the title "Minetest:Magichet" :)

Of course not everyone will comply... but not everyone's game will be bundled with the engine as well :)

Oh, one more thing. REMOVE minimal game from the package. Make a different game with the name like "LearnTest" or "ModTest" or "ExampleTest" to underline that it is merely an example of how to write one's own mods.

I agree.
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by twoelk » Fri Oct 17, 2014 00:54

Rochambeau wrote:...
(strange, how mostly longterm players mock about this initiative... )
...

uhm you mean the people who have become so accustomed to the name that they would get lost if it was renamed?

I really don't think the "engine" should be renamed, I might go with selling it under the name of some game though ... oops,
wasn't that what some ripoffs for android where doing? Might be a nice way to add to the confusion.
No really there are other brands out there that are stuck with a not so optimized name and they managed to make their name well known.

When I first got to know about Minetest I was drawn in by the screenshots so if anything I would rather suggest a representive collection of pictures and videos easily accessible frome the homepage, not so hidden as the current link. Those pics should of course be really informative, so maybe the same scene using radically different texture packs, some collections of mobs, different mapgen tweaks, some important mods including technic and mesecons and of course some buildings with clever use of some block mods. All this with descriptions what the picture is trying to showcase.

All in all I think one of the most important aspects of Minetest is how different each world can be and how easy it is to change stuff. Not just mentioned in the text but pictures that really showcase that.
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Esteban » Fri Oct 17, 2014 20:19

An interesting thing for skins to have is not compatibility with 1.8 MC skins, but have an independent texture per arm.(at least front side)
I am currently trying to make a skin about this guy:
+ Spoiler

An important aspect of the character is his "hook hand", but with the actual texture system I would either have two hooks or none...
EDIT: Made the skin with no hook :/
+ Spoiler
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by 4aiman » Fri Oct 17, 2014 23:59

@Esteban
You can "workaround" that with an entity attached to a player. Long ago had I made a prototype that used entities to make 3d armor without editing the default model of a player or setting a new one. http://youtu.be/Wyp9hQXyU1k
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Esteban » Sat Oct 18, 2014 14:59

4aiman wrote:@Esteban
You can "workaround" that with an entity attached to a player. Long ago had I made a prototype that used entities to make 3d armor without editing the default model of a player or setting a new one. http://youtu.be/Wyp9hQXyU1k


Interesting video! Thanks for the info, but I think just changing the texture application of the model would be easier. I will make some tests with skins to see how customizable a skin can be using a 64 x 32 (default) image.
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by 4aiman » Sun Oct 19, 2014 10:25

You'll need to change the default character model then. (And that was the reason I've mentioned entities.)
For a subgame or a mod it's "ok", though.

Hmm.... maybe you should create an additional layer (plane) and set a texture to that (if there's a file named like player_name.._extra_accessories)? Look how stu has made it in 3d_armour\wielditem :)

As for me, it's easier to ad an entity - have toyed with those a lot lately :)

How about custom gravity points?
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by rubenwardy » Sun Oct 19, 2014 11:11

I discused custom gravity points with pilzadam in IRC pm in early 2013. It is possible, but you would need to change the modding api and break mods as the api assumes gravity only acts vertically.

You would need to send gravity points to clients, and that may be a protocol bump.

As far as I remember. Things may have changed.

Gravity spots are defined by position and mass. Position needs to be able to be outside the maximum cords, maybe 100 times, as to simulate Earth's gravity.

F = G * m1 * m2 /r^2
G is universal gravity constant.
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by 4aiman » Sun Oct 19, 2014 13:34

Why not "emulate" that?
There's "bouncy" field in a node definition. Can't that be developed further?
Can't that be changed to stir a player not only vertically?
So, it'll be a field with a unit vector, showing the direction of the "bounce".
Max speed may depend on player's run speed (multiplied by 3 - that'll be enough).
So, when a player step on such a node (or inside it, if it's not a walkable one) he/she will be pushed in the direction there is in the node.

There are some workarounds to push the player with the given velocity or acceleration, but one can't make liquids to push players yet.

*note* I haven't yet looked at the physics implementation - only made an additional fall_tolerance field for the physics_override.
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Evergreen » Sun Oct 19, 2014 16:30

To add to that, I think we need a way of setting player velocity. It should be implemented the same way it is with normal entities.
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by gamergardencat » Sun Oct 19, 2014 18:40

F = G * m1 * m2 /r^2

There would need to be a way to determine how much things weigh. There would be easier to implement on a fresh vanilla. All the nodes like sand would need to be defined. Mass would need to be defined. If gravity were written into the engine then there would be a way to wrap the world around the center point. Such a thing could hinder generation since the world maybe not so infinite but that benefit would be easier to tweak and decustomised how you want your world to look all at once. Then againe would could also see cube shaped planets come into the picture. Just need a way to calculate what happens when a node moves from one side the the world to the other.
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by rubenwardy » Sun Oct 19, 2014 18:44

Not how much they weigh, but what their mass is. That is quite simple. Make players 60 Kg. The second mass is the mass of the hotspot. (Set by lua)
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by twoelk » Sun Oct 19, 2014 21:03

gamergardencat wrote:F = G * m1 * m2 /r^2
...

some time ago I had a little fun with that formula: Using Newton's formula for gravitation to calculate ones weight on other planets.
gasp, the first version is 12 years old?
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by gamergardencat » Tue Oct 21, 2014 22:51

rubenwardy wrote:Weight vs Mass annoys me. It's always misused.

My math teacher that worked in aeronautics (rockets,jets) things like that told me you can find the mass of something by weighing it. I don't have any problem with doing that personally.
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by twoelk » Wed Oct 22, 2014 19:10

rubenwardy wrote:Weight vs Mass annoys me. It's always misused.


he, that may indeed be an issue but I have grown sort of tired on insisting on this detail when talking to most people. Most of them live on this earth and don't intend to leave it. When I explain it to them they usually question the need of having to complicate things that they have a simplistic everyday life model of firmly loged into their view of the world with just enough knowledge of physics to not trip over their legs, which is difficult enough.

that said, correct me if I made a mistake in the script.
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by gamergardencat » Wed Oct 22, 2014 22:54

twoelk wrote:
rubenwardy wrote:Weight vs Mass annoys me. It's always misused.


he, that may indeed be an issue but I have grown sort of tired on insisting on this detail when talking to most people. Most of them live on this earth and don't intend to leave it. When I explain it to them they usually question the need of having to complicate things that they have a simplistic everyday life model of firmly loged into their view of the world with just enough knowledge of physics to not trip over their legs, which is difficult enough.

that said, correct me if I made a mistake in the script.

You're smarter than everybody else, so good for you. There is a great many different variables that can be plugged into a game. Computers don't fully and accurately represent real world stuff such as physics. It can be made to seem like it does and is very helpful for computing trajectory of a something moving from one place to another but really that's not what Minetest is doing here. No one is ever going to look for a voxel game to to help them plant colonies on Mars. Besides, making the Minetest world into a 6 sided planet is one thing, making each satellite moon or planet would be another adventure all together I don't think the developer are ready for. But that would be neat to jump on a ship and go to a space station and experince weightlessness in Minetest.
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by twoelk » Wed Oct 22, 2014 23:49

gamergardencat wrote:...
You're smarter than everybody else, so good for you.
...

I'd be building spaceships if I was ;-P
nah, just fascinated by stuff most regard useless for everyday life ... hmm there was a name for such people, now if I could only remember
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by gamergardencat » Thu Oct 23, 2014 02:54

twoelk wrote:
gamergardencat wrote:...
You're smarter than everybody else, so good for you.
...

I'd be building spaceships if I was ;-P
nah, just fascinated by stuff most regard useless for everyday life ... hmm there was a name for such people, now if I could only remember

+1 lol
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by lotek » Tue Nov 25, 2014 12:35

A few notes, about my experience with minetest and minecraft. I played first a few month minetest with my kids & friends, now we moved to minecraft. Always own server with around 5 players.

In short, we're addicted to mobs and want great landscapes (bioms).

Reason why I prefer minecraft and not minetest...
* More dense survival / adventure stuff in general (you have to fight to stay alive, find shelter while on a longer journey, help each other out, ecetera)
* A lot of animals, monster and npcs (have your own chicken, pig, cow and horse farm)
* More landscape (bioms) per default (e.g. mountains with snows, rivers, ...)
* System created buildings like mine shafts, strongholds, towns, and etcetera

from my administration view:
* rcon (remote control) with android app
* better map creator (mapcrafter) under linux
* external 3d map editor (mcedit) under linux

With Minetest I had to use a lot of plugins, like moretrees, plantlife, pyramids, snow, landup, 3darmor, ufo, hunger, food, mobf, creatures, worldedit, etcetera.. and in the sum it was also good, but the whole atmosphere is with minecraft a bit better, IMHO ;-) I know it's not fair at all to compare minetest with a million dollar project - but this should show what minetest is missing = mobs in the core with a lot of AI and bioms!

Where I like Minetest more:
* Official supported API (minecraft: waiting since 2 years I guess, bukkit is dead, sponge not yet ready and now micosoft is in charge, good night)
* Open Source / License
* Owners :-)

What I just don't care or it’s not that important to me:
* Java vs. C/C++ (as long it works under Linux)
* Pricing (25$ is ok for a game)
* Creating own Plugins/Modifications
* Graphics / Textures
* Performance (as long it runs on a newer laptop with an i5 everything is fine)

bye
Marcel
----
Mine Heavy
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Evergreen » Tue Nov 25, 2014 13:24

lotek wrote:With Minetest I had to use a lot of plugins, like moretrees, plantlife, pyramids, snow, landup, 3darmor, ufo, hunger, food, mobf, creatures, worldedit, etcetera..
The whole point of minetest is to ue a lot of mods. (they aren't called 'plugins')
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Don » Tue Nov 25, 2014 14:15

With great freedom comes great responsiblity!

I love the freedom you have with this game. The big issue is that people want to install and play. Maybe if the main page of minetest.net had a quick write up about how it is a basic game and most features such as animals, extra trees etc are added with mods. That way people don't expect to install and play. Could allso add something to the main menu of the game such as "To add more features click on the Mods tab".
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Esteban » Tue Nov 25, 2014 14:41

Don wrote:With great freedom comes great responsiblity!

I love the freedom you have with this game. The big issue is that people want to install and play. Maybe if the main page of minetest.net had a quick write up about how it is a basic game and most features such as animals, extra trees etc are added with mods. That way people don't expect to install and play. Could allso add something to the main menu of the game such as "To add more features click on the Mods tab".


Agree. This should help with people expectations. So you can have an idea, I found Minetest by looking up "games/clones of minecraft". However, unlike other people I checked the forums and discovered the game was meant to be modded. So when I played the first time, I wasn't disappointed in any way.
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Don » Tue Nov 25, 2014 14:52

Also, adding the website to the main menu would help people easily find the information. As easy as it is to google, I am sure that many will not google "minetest" but would click a link if it is provided.
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Sokomine » Tue Dec 02, 2014 18:21

lotek wrote:With Minetest I had to use a lot of plugins, like moretrees, plantlife, pyramids, snow, landup, 3darmor, ufo, hunger, food, mobf, creatures, worldedit, etcetera.. and in the sum it was also good, but the whole atmosphere is with minecraft a bit better, IMHO ;-) I know it's not fair at all to compare minetest with a million dollar project - but this should show what minetest is missing = mobs in the core with a lot of AI and bioms!

That's right, Minetest wants to be modded so as to fit to your personal taste :-)

You're right that mobs and survival aspects are still not very convincing. People who seek that will most likely find more fun in Minecraft. Something that comes close to it is AdventureTest. Maybe you ought to give that a try if you havn't already.
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