What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

[Icalasari]

I'd disagree on the small part, c56 - Minecraft is just absolutely huge. That said, it can feel small as much of that area in Minetest is vertical

Proper dimensional support would possibly solve any space issues anyways - Depending on how it is implemented, it could allow for other dimensions that are just extensions of the overworld appear when you approach a world edge

So yeah, definitely needs dimensions and a large community

[Helen Pixels]

The only thing it's missing is some ambient music.

[JALdMIC]

I don't speak English
What Minetest need is a proper game whit content, i know who the actual game is for put mods but maybe a more complete(or whith moore content) game can be added,like the winners of the game jam.

Lo que Minetest necesita es un juego apropiado con contenido,se que el juego actual es para poner mods pero tal vez un juego mas completo(o con mas contenido ) pueda ser anadido,como los ganadores del concurso.

[c56]

I don't speak English
What Minetest need is a proper game whit content, i know who the actual game is for put mods but maybe a more complete(or whith moore content) game can be added,like the winners of the game jam.

Lo que Minetest necesita es un juego apropiado con contenido,se que el juego actual es para poner mods pero tal vez un juego mas completo(o con mas contenido ) pueda ser anadido,como los ganadores del concurso.

putting a fully featured subgame into default minetest install would be bloat the user should install whatever he needs from the content tab (also there are good subgames for minetest )

[Blockhead]

Several huge time-savers for inventory management:

Double-click a stack to try to gather every item that could fit into that stack together e.g. if you have 3 stacks of wood planks, try to collect up to the stack limit amount of wood planks into the cursor.

Shift-Double a stack to move all stacks of an item between listrings e.g. between a chest and your inventory.

Keyboard 1-9 to swap hovered item with appropriate slot in hotbar. In minetest this would include the bound keys for hotbar slots all the way to 32 which are present in the config.

Left-click and drag with item to split it evenly into slots.

Pick-block support for creative, bound to mouse 3 by default but rebindable. This one would be complicated because it would add a third type of player-node interaction callback, but it would ultimately be quite helpful. I assume you could technically use Aux1+punch for this type of behaviour, but that's like saying Mac mice are fine to have just one button because you can Command-click. Every third party mouse just has a right button.

[Slightly]

Full disclosure I have never played Minecraft and Minetest is my one and only voxel game experience. However, I have watched a bunch of Hermitcraft videos. Two features I'd like us to have is the ability to push mobs and the ability to carry them and chests, etc in the default boats and carts. If those features already exist, can someone point me to the mods that implement them? Otherwise, those would add a lot of play value, imo.

[FavoritoHJS]

imho, MT tends to still have a lot of what could be called "jank".
for example, netcode correction is basically non-existent, so with high ping, mobs act somewhat stuttery, moving items in chests feels weird...
plus, I feel like some sort of internal consistency is missing...
also, repeating what cuthbertdoublebarrel said a while back, a more "unique" game. MTG has a near-monopoly on games, either directly or as a core mod, with few substantial games (to my knowledge, only MineClone and NodeCore) not using MTG.
This means that you can hardly say Minetest as a whole DOESN'T have a default game, good luck calling the core of most games not a default game.
I suppose part of this is due to not really having a second option because there are no mods for it, and there are no mods for a second solution because there isn't one.
that's assuming this whole "don't have a default game" business is even a good idea...

[Eris]

[...] repeating what cuthbertdoublebarrel said a while back, a more "unique" game. MTG has a near-monopoly on games, either directly or as a core mod, with few substantial games (to my knowledge, only MineClone and NodeCore) not using MTG.
This means that you can hardly say Minetest as a whole DOESN'T have a default game, good luck calling the core of most games not a default game. [...]

MTG isn't going anywhere; people will move on to create their own base for mods and games, eventually.

[Festus1965]

What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

gamer !

[runs]

Talent?

[chopinschuman]

Realistic water shaders, glass(e.g. like in quake engine), mirrors(looking glass, web cameras), hangin`/sagging wires and ropes. Better RAM memory management/economy

[Festus1965]

good (strong) servers ... hold at least 50 gamer ...

[AwesomeDragon97]

I used to play Minecraft until recently (I quit due to the account migration and global chat reporting), and I can say that there are a few major things that Minetest is still missing over Minecraft. Some of these would be relatively easy to fix, while others are fundamental problems.

1. The textures are not as good. This is understandable for mods since many of the textures are made by people who aren't experienced artists, but the quality of the default MTG textures is an issue.

2. There are no custom dimensions. This means that to add new dimensions you have to layer them, which causes issues when multiple mods have custom dimensions. Adding dimension support to the engine would solve this issue.

3. There is no official C++ mob API. There are many Lua mod apis which are high quality, but having three mob apis running simultaneously just to get a good selection of mobs adds a lot of performance overhead. Also it is very difficult to add mobs, and it seems that other people feel the same way since there are very few mods that add mobs.

4. Minetest doesn't feel like a cohesive game. Many mods add the same items, which reminds me of the situation in Minecraft modding when if you install a bunch of mods then you end up with 10 different versions of copper. This could be solved by making mods smaller and more focused, rather than having giant all-or-nothing mods which add a massive amount of nodes and items.

5. Overall Minetest feels more janky and unpolished than Minecraft, but hopefully the UI overhaul will address this.

Minetest still has many advantages over Minecraft though. It is free and open source, easy to mod and most importantly is not controlled by Microsoft.

[Blockhead]

I used to play Minecraft until recently (I quit due to the account migration and global chat reporting), and I can say that there are a few major things that Minetest is still missing over Minecraft. Some of these would be relatively easy to fix, while others are fundamental problems.

Welcome :) My MC account got shafted due to the migration because I never kept a number from a dead email of my dad 10 years ago that apparently was important.

1. The textures are not as good. This is understandable for mods since many of the textures are made by people who aren't experienced artists, but the quality of the default MTG textures is an issue.

Minecraft has had years with their full time artists to gain the lead so this is understandable. But have you tried texture packs?

2. There are no custom dimensions. This means that to add new dimensions you have to layer them, which causes issues when multiple mods have custom dimensions. Adding dimension support to the engine would solve this issue.

This and the small world size are big bugbears but if we ever see them addressed it'll be a Minetest 6 and/or 7 and it will be much more breaking than the transition to 5.0 was, for hopefully some long term gains.

3. There is no official C++ mob API. There are many Lua mod apis which are high quality, but having three mob apis running simultaneously just to get a good selection of mobs adds a lot of performance overhead. Also it is very difficult to add mobs, and it seems that other people feel the same way since there are very few mods that add mobs.

It's been pointed out before that with the pathfinding API available to Lua doing the heavy grunt of that algorithm, there's very little other performance benefit that's likely to be had by just handing stuff over to C++. In fact there are performance costs to calling into C++ from Lua, and huge disadvantages to mods by making unmodifiable implementations written in C++.

There are probably still ways to help Lua mods run faster with more engine features that will come in the feature, and there is probably still a lot to be done by the authors of both the mobs frameworks and individual mobs mods themselves to make the mobs run faster. Forgive me if I'm wrong because I don't keep up with the latest in mob APIs, but I think nobody has yet made use of the async runners feature in a mob mod, which has the potential to make a big difference I think, because it adds some actual multiprocessing.

Of course mob client-side prediction would help, but server-sent client-side modding (SSCSM) is a long term dream that has never come to fruition . GitHub thread for Mobs API, one of several GitHub threads for SSCSM, the pathfinder API, minetest.find_path.

4. Minetest doesn't feel like a cohesive game. Many mods add the same items, which reminds me of the situation in Minecraft modding when if you install a bunch of mods then you end up with 10 different versions of copper. This could be solved by making mods smaller and more focused, rather than having giant all-or-nothing mods which add a massive amount of nodes and items.

This is just a problem of a lack of collaboration and shared vision between modders I think. And ultimately, to paraphrase Arthur C. Clarke "a sufficiently cohesive modpack for a base game is indistinguishable from a separate game in its own right". We just have more of a disparate group of solo modders than good project teams.

I see lot of mods pop up in the new section of ContentDB like "x new ore" "y new set of crops" and so on. These are probably people's first mods in many cases, and it's good that they learn how to mod, but I do wish they would move on from working on their own to joining a team behind a larger mod, modpack or game. Personally rather than make mods from scratch I like to identify what's already headed in a direction I like and contribute. I'm not sure how we convert people along from solo modding to teams anyway, except maybe this: people tend to form community around a mod or a few mods if they play a lot together in multiplayer. I never seriously play Minetest on my own in singleplayer except when modding or exploring entirely new games anyway.

5. Overall Minetest feels more janky and unpolished than Minecraft, but hopefully the UI overhaul will address this.

Minetest still has many advantages over Minecraft though. It is free and open source, easy to mod and most importantly is not controlled by Microsoft.

I actually really dislike MC's interface for the most part to be honest. To me on a 1080p, not HiDPI monitor, there's no happy intermediate between the default UI being oversize and the medium having everything just about right except the action bar being too small and maybe the text a bit too small as well. So yes we can do a lot better than how Minetest is, and potentially even a lot better than MC if you ask me. Pixel fonts are overrated :)

[MCL]

Welcome :) My MC account got shafted due to the migration because I never kept a number from a dead email of my dad 10 years ago that apparently was important.

Why would you use your dad's e-mail instead of yours?

[snoopy]

Minetest still has many advantages over Minecraft though. It is free and open source, easy to mod and most importantly is not controlled by Microsoft.

@AwesomeDragon97 - IMHO you provided very good points in your a.m. list and I specifically support your final statement.

[Liil]

Reminder:

MT:
MC:

After over a year, still not fixed. I think everybody will notice this issue, because it is present at the moment that somebody places something underwater, that is not a square node.

If one activates waves, very fast this can also still be noticed:

[FavoritoHJS]

About the waves showing occluded liquid faces issue, that could be fixed in engine, so please submit a github issue so someone can fix it

About the lack of waterlogging, though... Yea, that's though. Using only solid blocks isn't a dealbreaker (after all that's what you had to do until waterlogging existed), but fixing that is probably on the game side... assuming they even can, as I'm not sure if you can mix a liquid drawtype surface with anything else (and faking liquid would break waves)

[veriaqa]

Finite water

[Blockhead]

Finite water

Engine already supports it, it's just not in Minetest Game by default. Dynamic Liquid mod will change that. Also, doesn't Minecraft need a mod for finite water?

[Exhale]

I think minetest can have ambition, this is a great and massive project that has been around almost as long as minecraft...
A few little things from a graphic designer and musician perspective. The textures minetest has are way too contrasty, and I have been exploring texture packs from the time I started on this game (a few years ago at this stage)... almost every pack I have found for mineclone (as an example) has either been high res, which is nice, but not what I am looking for, or high contrast - like old school minecraft... this is why I have started working on my own. You dont want the landscape to be jarring to look at from too much useless detail in a game like this. I think this is why minecraft made the change to softer textures, and it is a change I am personally making in my pack where appropriate ... some textures make sense being more contrasty, it can distinguish them, but I think most should be about comfort to the eyes, so the player can take in a landscape and understand what to do quickly without too much detail distracting the eyes.

One suggestion I would make for aesthetics is grass variation, I am not sure why there is no height variation in the mineclone 2 I am presently using (maybe it's the texture pack), but that is not a good look. I just opened a world and ran around a bit until the sun went down and dug a hole...
The grass is too uniform in height - all the grass. The tall grass could do with a variation of 3-4 pixels up and down, and the short stuff could do with variation. Maybe that is something I can fix in my texture pack... we will see.

These observations are about surpassing minecraft, which is a shitstorm of privacy violation and brazen doing whatever the fuck they want without any actual consideration for what the people who have supported the game for a long time, so please feel free to utterly tear me a new one for my thoughts if you feel I need it. I am well aware that most of my thoughts here will most probably just be rambling and off the top of my head.

mods - I think we could do with a mod profile system. You select mods that work with one game (minetest game vanilla in this example) then you save that as a mod profile for minetest vanilla which you can load with maybe 2-3 clicks the next time you make a new world on that game. I picture this as a drop down with a save profile button.

World generation - I certainly think that actual warps to separate but linked worlds is vital! That is one of my personal favourite things about minecraft, and my favourite minecraft mod was mystcraft where the worlds you could generate become infinite.
To add to this, I think customization in world generation should be more flexible from within the world creation menu. If I would rather my world was only 1000 nodes from "bedrock" to the highest building point while using the rest of the huge mass of potential space in a minetest world (often wasted on too much sky or underground) to spread the world wider then I think I should be able to, and if I want to mess with the tiny terrain generation details then I think I should have those options in easy sliders with simple descriptive titles and mouse over information. Give us those settings you are using to generate our worlds to play with, we will make a lot of mess worlds and delete them, but that is how we learn.

Ui - I know this is being worked on, and I wholeheartedly support this important step! I hope there is going to be a new main screen title design, and if this isnt on the cards yet, hit me up... I can certainly make something better to look at than it has now. Obviously no charge.

mobs - minetest vanilla does need a mob system of its own... it simply isnt a survival game if the only thing you are surviving is your own stupidity when misjudging a long fall, drowning or other forms of stupidity. Creative mobs are not a must, although it would be nice... But I think it is the thought that counts in this case... mobs would start to build a basic feeling of occupation to the vanilla minetest experience. I am thinking passive mobs, stuff like birds, butterflies, rodents. They would make the world seem alive, lived in, and more exciting even if they arent attacking the player.

Music and sound - As far as I know minetest vanilla doesnt have music at all, the only times I have heard music is in the games themselves. The sounds in minetest vanilla are bare bones at best too. This I think is the biggest problem here. So much of our lived experience is in sound. On that note, a separate volume slider for music and sounds would be important for the games which use both... I am a musician as I said at the top of this wall of text, and I would gladly spend some time making some calm atmospheric music for minetest.

I think just because minetest is a games platform, doent mean it doesnt get to be a game of its own, something for people to play as bog standard and still enjoy immensely. The drive to keep it simple is not only understandable, it is the graphic designer's creed (Keep It Simple Stupid - KISS)... But if you keep a game of this kind of scope too simple for the sake of other games, I really think you are doing yourselves and the people who believe in this game a disservice.

As a final thought... I have spent some time reading some of the posts on this forum, and one thing I can see is this over arcing theme of getting the whole community together to make projects such as mods and games... which is why we are ending up with many mods that do the exact same thing. I feel that if there was a little bit more decisive direction in the base game, then the community surrounding the base game making mods, textures, and games would be more inclined to unite. It is difficult to herd cats, but if you have a lot of yummy fish you can certainly lure them.

[Blockhead]

Ui - I know this is being worked on, and I wholeheartedly support this important step! I hope there is going to be a new main screen title design, and if this isnt on the cards yet, hit me up... I can certainly make something better to look at than it has now. Obviously no charge.

Do it. I dare you.

[Exhale]

[/quote]

Do it. I dare you.
[/quote]

why so foreboding with the "dare" are people here precious about the present title? I could knock something better up in less than an hour. Do you guys want a new title or not?

[Blockhead]

why so foreboding with the "dare" are people here precious about the present title? I could knock something better up in less than an hour. Do you guys want a new title or not?

The "dare" is just a bit of silliness. All I'm really saying is actions speak louder than words. And yes, our current menu can be a lot better. We'd appreciate input. You're not going to be the only proposal though.

[TumeniNodes]

The textures minetest has are way too contrasty,

Yep...
But most around here seem to love the "retro" look or very sharp, vivid colors which afflict instant pain on the retina.
I was constantly working on "a" personal texture pack for quite a while, which I would have offered, but due to my tendency to being easily distracted, "a" turned into many... which means, many unfinished/incomplete packs and a war chest of textures I constantly tell myself "one day..."
I am a texture hoarder... (help me
But mostly this was from paying attention to reactions from the community with texture packs which arose, as well as work on the UI, which drained my motivation to even try to get involved, and ultimately lead to my boredom with the project altogether.

Some don't seem to grasp the concept that even though a game/platform, the visuals can be really appealing and easy on the eyes without the need for large, heavy realism, which is out of place here, or visuals which look like a 4yo did them with basic crayons.
Of course on the top end, you're dealing with programmers, not artists.
Artists still don't fit very well into the developer world... unless their art is retro, a throw back to the horrible 90's gaming industry.
Programmers don't "get"... Art.

I had also many times thought about offering to completely rework the entire MTG visual, and even step into the MT end... but, as I said... retro, odd/horrid and painful seem to win the day here so I felt it would just be a waste of time and a very, very long, dragged out process with a lot of walls, which would have sapped my motivation very quickly.
Around here, people seem to want some early 1990's tiny gameboy visual where blacks are some weird, dark purple, which is actually pretty sad... just no actual "style" and quite unappealing
Of course this is just my own personal opinion... everyone has their own "taste" and I felt like ranting today, to get a bit off my chest here