What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by MisterE » Post

Funny... Im working on one right now. I hope I can get it to work.

Although, its not quite bomberman. I have never played bomberman, I played Granatier, which is an open source linux (sudo apt install granatier) multiplayer clanbomber clone. Because it is free software, I can reuse some of the assets.

At the moment, I am struggling to figure out the arena_lib library, get the player character entity to move with the player, handle explosions, etc

If someone wants to help, we could figure out ways of working together on it. Possibilities: Github (or gitlab or notabug) plus discord, Visual Studio Code liveshare code editing plus liveshare voice chat. I think atom has liveshare too...

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by voxelproof » Post

Back to the topic...

"Emergeflying".

I think the most obvious imo thing that clearly sets Minetest behind Minecraft is the terrain generation algorithm (or its implementation in C or whatever other programming language was used). The term "emergeflying" coined by one of the users of this Forum reflects well what the issue is: you have to do a lot of flying over the vast area of rendered landscape to remove all those ugly empty, transparent spots in the surface, and this problem doesn't seem to be correlated with the speed of terrain generation. Even if the whole area is rendered pretty fast, those horribly annoying points of pierced surface remain in place, waiting patiently for the player's close encounter. There's no such a problem in Minecraft - the terrain is generated swiftly and although it sometimes takes more time to create more remote parts of the terrain within player's perimeter when greater distance of view is set, it does its job exactly and without fudging.
To miss the joy is to miss all. Robert Louis Stevenson

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Linuxdirk » Post

voxelproof wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 08:58
the terrain is generated swiftly and although it sometimes takes more time to create more remote parts of the terrain within player's perimeter when greater distance of view is set, it does its job exactly and without fudging.
Some time ago I did some testing and there seems to be some kind of hard limit around 300 nodes where loading fails or stops completely no matter what settings are present for the values that control loading and viewing range. Between 18 blocks (288 nodes) and 19 blocks (304 nodes) viewing range does not increase.

Result of testing:

Code: Select all

# Viewing distance   max_block_*
# 256                16
# 272                17
# 288                18
# 304                19          No visible difference to 288
viewing_range = 288
max_block_send_distance = 18
max_block_generate_distance = 18
block_send_optimize_distance = 9
fog_start = 0.6
cloud_radius = 26
With this settings I get the seemingly best viewing range without too many loading issues and holes. Not as good as Minecraft but pretty much the best we can get I guess.

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by voxelproof » Post

@Linuxdirk:

I registered my NVIDIA gfx card and signed an agreement whereby my computer reports all of its activity to the company. And, somewhat surprisingly, although I had run MT on my GPU for some time before, and I was not very much impressed how the GPU handled MT, the performance of MT noticeably improved after one of the graphic card driver's updates. Now I can run MT with the viewing range of more than 1000 nodes with HD textures and it performs pretty smoothly, at least until there're not too many jungles around emerged :) (I use GeForce RTX 2070, which is pretty powerful one). However the issue in question still remains.

And I wholeheartedly promise that, if by some improbable chance NVIDIA adds sometime in the future Minetest to its optimization list, and the rendering will become like it should be, I'll notify under every good screenshot I post here that it was captured using NVIDIA's hardware and drivers :)

Because it's probably not the issue that developers can settle. I have some experience with improving MT performance by installing Fortnite's client and associated drivers, so I know what I'm talking about.
To miss the joy is to miss all. Robert Louis Stevenson

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by magnusviri » Post

I haven't read this whole thread. I really like Minetest and I think I might use it for some time so I am making an attempt at joining this community. So I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents.

First, my impression of the Minetest community is that most of them have no interest in being Minecraft or even in being popular like Minecraft. They probably resent threads like this because it implies there is something wrong with Minetest. In another thread about what is unique about Minetest the word "open" was listed as the first feature in many people's lists. That means that popular isn't high on the list of goals of most developers and that's not a bad thing.

The leaders of Minetest have made a decision concerning the scope of this project and it simply doesn't include being popular. In a way, you could say they have decided they don't want to deal with the celebrity status that Markus Persson had to deal with. I mean, there's Forbes articles about him and oh the drama. Fake death stories, his political views being talked about more than his game, and just... Sigh. Being a celebrity isn't fun. Certainly they want people to play the game, but there's also something else going on with Minetest.

In fact, I believe I saw something about some developers who disagreed with the goal of Minetest and they forked it and did their own thing. So there is clearly a goal with Minetest and people who disagree.

Second, what is the scope of the project? When I first saw Minecraft I wasn't that interested. My kids really liked it and I ended up playing it because of them. In an effort to get them to learn to program I downloaded some of the Minecraft mods to make it funner for the kids. And here's what I noticed that applies to Minetest. The Minecraft modding community felt just like the Minetest community. I don't know what more to say about this because I don't really understand it. Modding communities are their own thing. I've never really been a part of one so I don't know what makes it the way it is. And it looks to me that Minetest is *about* mods. And it seems to me that most corporate game companies dislike modding communities.

I don't even know if there is a Minecraft modding community anymore because it seems to me that Minecraft is now mostly an Xbox game. No one in my house even plays it on a computer anymore. I wonder if when Microsoft bought Minecraft they set out to destroy its modding community. And that really bugs me because I can't stand paying for skins. This is actually what drove me to find an alternative (Minetest) because now I've got another kid growing up who wants to play Minecraft and I'm trying to steer him away from the Xbox microtransaction world and instead get him involved in making his own digital assets and to learn coding. Games is what drove me to learn to program when I was a kid. And now my older kids who never did take my bait and play nothing but the Xbox don't know a thing about programming.

I think it really comes down to the fact that Minetest is a modding community first. It's stated all over the place. I just think it's hard for some people here to understand. They probably know it on some level because they're here. But I believe that if you want a popular game like Minecraft, you have to quit caring about modding. Maybe you'd allow it, but it certainly wouldn't be your goal. The fact that modding is the goal here means it can and will never be popular like Minecraft, and for the people who have graciously contributed their time to make this game, that's a very good thing. I think they are trying to appeal to the people who mod, and I think they're doing a good job with it.

Because honestly, if Minecraft is what someone wants, they will pay for it and never look for anything else. They're happy to consume what Microsoft offers to them in exchange for their money. But if a person is tired of microtransactions for a skin that they know can be created in just a few minutes, they will look beyond Minecraft and find something else.

So I think the real question is, how do you make Minetest easier to find and more appealing to modders? I think the core developers have already figured all of this out because it looks to me they've already done it. I mean, where else would you sign up for a forum and the only social media link is Github? LOL.

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by magnusviri » Post

Ok, I'm going to add one more thing, mainly answering my question, how do you make Minetest more appealing to modders? As a newcomer, the one thing I really wish for knowing which mods to start with. I don't know how many mob mods there are, but it appears that there's duplication. There's an awful lot of mods and I don't think I have enough free time to look through all of them. It's Thanksgiving break here in the US, and when work starts back up on Monday I'm not going to have the time I have now.

I'm sure people here know which mods are really good and which aren't. But it's impossible for me to tell without a lot of research. It would be nice if mods could be categorized, rated, endorsed, or if polished enough and adhere to certain standards, even added to the main Minetest download.

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by magnusviri » Post

Arg, I don't know how I posted a duplicate but I don't see any way to delete it.

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Zughy » Post

magnusviri wrote:
Sun Nov 29, 2020 10:31
But if a person is tired of microtransactions for a skin that they know can be created in just a few minutes
Kind of OT but, pixel artist who also made a few MC/MT skins: creating a skin doesn't require a few minutes

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by magnusviri » Post

Zughy wrote:
Sun Nov 29, 2020 11:18
Kind of OT but, pixel artist who also made a few MC/MT skins: creating a skin doesn't require a few minutes
True. I meant downloading one and installing it. I hadn't quite gotten to the point of getting them to use a paint program to draw something.

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by rubenwardy » Post

magnusviri wrote:
Sun Nov 29, 2020 10:52
I'm sure people here know which mods are really good and which aren't. But it's impossible for me to tell without a lot of research. It would be nice if mods could be categorized, rated, endorsed, or if polished enough and adhere to certain standards, even added to the main Minetest download.
This is done on ContentDB, the main place for mods and such: https://content.minetest.net
It has reviews/ratings, tags, and more

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by runs » Post

magnusviri wrote:
Sun Nov 29, 2020 10:31
I haven't read this whole thread. I really like Minetest and I think I might use it for some time so I am making an attempt at joining this community. So I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents.

First, my impression of the Minetest community is that most of them have no interest in being Minecraft or even in being popular like Minecraft. They probably resent threads like this because it implies there is something wrong with Minetest. In another thread about what is unique about Minetest the word "open" was listed as the first feature in many people's lists. That means that popular isn't high on the list of goals of most developers and that's not a bad thing.

The leaders of Minetest have made a decision concerning the scope of this project and it simply doesn't include being popular. In a way, you could say they have decided they don't want to deal with the celebrity status that Markus Persson had to deal with. I mean, there's Forbes articles about him and oh the drama. Fake death stories, his political views being talked about more than his game, and just... Sigh. Being a celebrity isn't fun. Certainly they want people to play the game, but there's also something else going on with Minetest.

In fact, I believe I saw something about some developers who disagreed with the goal of Minetest and they forked it and did their own thing. So there is clearly a goal with Minetest and people who disagree.

Second, what is the scope of the project? When I first saw Minecraft I wasn't that interested. My kids really liked it and I ended up playing it because of them. In an effort to get them to learn to program I downloaded some of the Minecraft mods to make it funner for the kids. And here's what I noticed that applies to Minetest. The Minecraft modding community felt just like the Minetest community. I don't know what more to say about this because I don't really understand it. Modding communities are their own thing. I've never really been a part of one so I don't know what makes it the way it is. And it looks to me that Minetest is *about* mods. And it seems to me that most corporate game companies dislike modding communities.

I don't even know if there is a Minecraft modding community anymore because it seems to me that Minecraft is now mostly an Xbox game. No one in my house even plays it on a computer anymore. I wonder if when Microsoft bought Minecraft they set out to destroy its modding community. And that really bugs me because I can't stand paying for skins. This is actually what drove me to find an alternative (Minetest) because now I've got another kid growing up who wants to play Minecraft and I'm trying to steer him away from the Xbox microtransaction world and instead get him involved in making his own digital assets and to learn coding. Games is what drove me to learn to program when I was a kid. And now my older kids who never did take my bait and play nothing but the Xbox don't know a thing about programming.

I think it really comes down to the fact that Minetest is a modding community first. It's stated all over the place. I just think it's hard for some people here to understand. They probably know it on some level because they're here. But I believe that if you want a popular game like Minecraft, you have to quit caring about modding. Maybe you'd allow it, but it certainly wouldn't be your goal. The fact that modding is the goal here means it can and will never be popular like Minecraft, and for the people who have graciously contributed their time to make this game, that's a very good thing. I think they are trying to appeal to the people who mod, and I think they're doing a good job with it.

Because honestly, if Minecraft is what someone wants, they will pay for it and never look for anything else. They're happy to consume what Microsoft offers to them in exchange for their money. But if a person is tired of microtransactions for a skin that they know can be created in just a few minutes, they will look beyond Minecraft and find something else.

So I think the real question is, how do you make Minetest easier to find and more appealing to modders? I think the core developers have already figured all of this out because it looks to me they've already done it. I mean, where else would you sign up for a forum and the only social media link is Github? LOL.
Bad news and times for you in MT LOL. Now Minetets is intended to be a engine only.

Minetest based on games (mods) means you have to try games/mods, so you "waste" some of your time.

It is the new direction that the developers have decided, right or wrong, is what there is ...
🤑 Patreon |Minetest Element Chat | 👧 Samantha | ⛏️ Juanchi Game | 🐱 Petz

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by rubenwardy » Post

Minetest has intended to be primarily an engine since 0.4.0, in 2012

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Minsc » Post

Based on my understanding of the spirit of the project, perhaps a rebranding of Minetest into Minetest VGE [Voxel Game Engine (or simply Minetest VE)] to help drive home to new users that Minetest is a game engine which can be "modded" into a game. Then "YouTubers" or equivalent can showcase a game, such as MineClone 2, and indicate it's built on Minetest VGE. The focus should be on the game.

Minetest is the barebones. It even has a basic game (or mod-pack loader, using Minecraft speak). Everything is a development proof of concept, that is fine. Anything more than that is for people who want to form a team and make it happen. I'm not one of those people though. So, basically, I likely said exactly what many have probably said before. It'll be said again until some group get together and make it happen.

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by philipbenr » Post

I think it would be beneficial to split the Minetest engine and main menu into a separate "Minetest Engine" and "Minetest Game Client". Which is a subtle but fairly important distinction I think. This way there will be less confusion about what Minetest is, and discussion can be redirected to more appropriate places. There can also be a builtin way to update the main engine as needed instead of needing to re-download it. It also might encourage those to repackage the engine their own way. Not to mention the Minetest interface could use with a bit of a redesign/polishing up.

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Vindelle_Pounze » Post

MisterE wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 17:46

Although, its not quite bomberman. I have never played bomberman, I played Granatier, which is an open source linux (sudo apt install granatier) multiplayer clanbomber clone. Because it is free software, I can reuse some of the assets.
I think I should apologize beforehand because, well, I am obviously just mocking you. But this does fit so nicely, I just couldn't resist.
Not sure what relevant info I missed (I did search like two pages before in this thread), but trying to install the game you mentioned did just not work for me.
My linux box is telling me this: "sudo: apt: unknown command"

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by philipbenr » Post

Vindelle_Pounze wrote:
Sun Dec 13, 2020 03:14
MisterE wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 17:46

Although, its not quite bomberman. I have never played bomberman, I played Granatier, which is an open source linux (sudo apt install granatier) multiplayer clanbomber clone. Because it is free software, I can reuse some of the assets.
I think I should apologize beforehand because, well, I am obviously just mocking you. But this does fit so nicely, I just couldn't resist.
Not sure what relevant info I missed (I did search like two pages before in this thread), but trying to install the game you mentioned did just not work for me.
My linux box is telling me this: "sudo: apt: unknown command"
This might help: https://wiki.debian.org/Apt

Your Linux box is probably not Debian based if you don't have apt. So something like Manjaro/Arch, Fedora, or the likes.

Edit: to get you going further, you need to identify the package manager for your distribution, then see if it supports it. Otherwise, you might have to compile from source.

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Vindelle_Pounze » Post

On topic, though. Probably repeating myself but I don't see any reason why this thread should actually exist anyways. Being equal to or better than Minecraft? Is this really a thing here? Don't think so. Most of the comments tell differently. (Yes, I do lurk a lot and do not take part in the community...just not my cup of tea. But sometimes I need to speak out and state the obvious...or what I think the obvious is.)
Having quite a long history with this game myself, I 'accidentally' installed it while searching for an official Minecraft package in my distribution's package manager about ten years ago...and, wow...it was BORING. Close to no content, just walking on mostly stone accompanied with sounds like constant "tok-tok-tok" that seemed to be an attempt in doing walking sounds and just NOTHING even the slightest comparable to Minecraft happened... no mobs, no feedback in-game, no nothing.
Years later I reinstalled it and was surprised how it has had developed...felt more or less like a game now!
For my own reasons I like it for what it is now and it does give me a different feeling than Minecraft does. It will never (at least I guess) attract the people (and for sure not that many) that Minecraft does. And that is fine!
This game is different while being "the same"...it just is not that likely to be that popular anytime. That is fine, too!
What does it miss over Minecraft, then? Nothing, because we should not compare it; everything (or at least a lot) if you still insist to compare.

Seriously, there is just two things that "Minetest is still missing over Minecraft":
- having been the first (f****g successful) such game
- (today) some billion dollars from a big company

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Vindelle_Pounze » Post

@philipbenr
Erm, well. I think I need to learn a lot about online conversations.
First I totally don't know how to mark this an answer to a special comment. But I think I am doing it right with this (at) thing. [And actually this is not making fun like my answer before was]
Did I not make it obvious that I was not seriously having problems installing that software but having problems with how people just post ("hey, just copy and paste this and you will get a really cool game installed")?
Maybe some of my thoughts just don't make any sense as English is not my native language.
I'm sorry if I did not express myself well enough.
Don't take this personal, please. I don't mean to do any harm. There just is some stuff I think I should raise the average Joe's voice for those who don't. [ Or something like that...in my mind it DID make sense;) ]
EDIT:addition
I am well aware how to install software in my distribution, otherwise I would not use it. But just assuming everyone uses a debian based distribution so that any of apt/aptitude/apt-get commands will work makes my head go crazy. And as already mentioned...suggesting copy and paste solutions IS kinda risky and actually destroy the benefits of using linux over other operating systems.

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by philipbenr » Post

Vindelle_Pounze wrote:
Sun Dec 13, 2020 03:58
@philipbenr...
Ah, that makes sense.

To respond to a specific person, hit the " button up in the top right corner of the reply you want to quote. And don't worry about it, no offense was taken. Satire/sarcasm is hard to detect in online writing sometimes, especially across languages, so I legitimately didn't detect it. But no harm done.

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by r1bnc » Post

I've watched some twitch streamers of minecraft, and they appear to have proximity voice chat. Is this possible to implement?
twitch.tv/r1bnc

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by PolySaken » Post

r1bnc wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 00:50
I've watched some twitch streamers of minecraft, and they appear to have proximity voice chat. Is this possible to implement?
No. There's no way for the client to send that kind of data to the server.

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by LMD » Post

PolySaken wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 04:05
r1bnc wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 00:50
I've watched some twitch streamers of minecraft, and they appear to have proximity voice chat. Is this possible to implement?
No. There's no way for the client to send that kind of data to the server.
Modchannels could be flexible enough.
My stuff: Projects - Mods - Website

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by r1bnc » Post

PolySaken wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 04:05
r1bnc wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 00:50
I've watched some twitch streamers of minecraft, and they appear to have proximity voice chat. Is this possible to implement?
No. There's no way for the client to send that kind of data to the server.
It could be a 3rd party mod like CrewLink (mod for among us) but it is powered by *Electron* which I hate.
twitch.tv/r1bnc

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by rubenwardy » Post

Mumble is a more standard choice for open source positional audio

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Hume2 » Post

MINECR~1 has no issues with Irrlicht unlike Minetest.
If you lack the reality, go on a trip or find a job.

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