What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

4aiman
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by 4aiman » Post

While I wasn't mentioned, I'd like to comment:

I can't see any real difference aside from textures and speed of the sunrise itself (seems to be a little bit slowed down).
Where's the catch? :)

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SAMIAMNOT
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by SAMIAMNOT » Post

I agree that another subgame should be added, but both Minetest_game and Minimal should stay, because they might run better on weaker computers. However, we're likely months away from them (the devs) deciding to add a game and the process of choosing which game to add would likely be long.
That thing about Minetest being bloated is rediculous though. Look at the Mac OS builds, they come with 4, 5 games, including Overcraft, which is quite large.

EDIT:Also, Minetest shouldnt try to be like Minecraft. Minetest is best when it comes to uniqueness. For example, I like foghting Dirt Monsters and Sand Monsters and Tree Monsters from Mobs Redo better than I like fighting Zombies from Simple Mobs.
I test mines.

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by benrob0329 » Post

Polish, thats about it...with the skinsdb mod people can upload there skins to the database and it will be on the server.
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programmingchicken
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by programmingchicken » Post

We need to part from MC completely, b/c MC *might* be going downhill and we need to become our own game.
Who friggin cares if minetest doesn't feel enough like MC. MT AIN'T MC

I think that RBA has been stalling the lighting overhaul for a LOOOOONG time now.
We need it. And we need it BAD.
<gamerdude> I apologize for the above content

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benrob0329
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by benrob0329 » Post

YES!!!!!
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SAMIAMNOT
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by SAMIAMNOT » Post

programmingchicken wrote:...we need to become our own game.
Who friggin cares if minetest doesn't feel enough like MC. MT AIN'T MC...
Amen!
programmingchicken wrote:...I think that RBA has been stalling the lighting overhaul for a LOOOOONG time now.
We need it. And we need it BAD.
Yeah, finally a meaningful update! Unfortunately, this would likely push the release back and I really can't wait for the new /spawnentity command.
I test mines.

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programmingchicken
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by programmingchicken » Post

SAMIAMNOT wrote:
programmingchicken wrote:...we need to become our own game.
Who friggin cares if minetest doesn't feel enough like MC. MT AIN'T MC...
Amen!
programmingchicken wrote:...I think that RBA has been stalling the lighting overhaul for a LOOOOONG time now.
We need it. And we need it BAD.
Yeah, finally a meaningful update! Unfortunately, this would likely push the release back and I really can't wait for the new /spawnentity command.
lighting overhaul which may add cool shader mods and ambient light versus a builtin /spawnentity command that you could probably install a mod for.
Honestly I want DM's and rats back into the game with 3D textures.
<gamerdude> I apologize for the above content

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rubenwardy
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by rubenwardy » Post

There is absolutely zero chance that a lighting overhaul will make it in into 0.4.13, given that we're currently in feature freeze (only bug fixes are allowed, no new features or big changes)

There are more important things than lighting to do at the moment, after 0.4.13 is over, such as fixing the networking code and adding client side lua. I'd currently prefer RBA to work on improving the minimap.

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by benrob0329 » Post

Speaking of RBA, I rebuilt my MT and the new ore textures didn't pop out like they did! I have bumpmapping enabled, but something changed in the normalmap...
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4aiman
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by 4aiman » Post

SAMIAMNOT wrote:Minetest is best when it comes to uniqueness.
You're so wrong here, SAMIAMNOT...

@2 everyone
Minetest as a sanbox engine (quite good, if you ask me) IS unique. Nothing can change that.

But what IS ridiculous it's to compare an engine and a game.

That being said, in terms of *game* uniqueness, Minetest is a large number of clones.
Or, to satisfy more "precise" view of some community members, Minetest is the *family* of subgames.
Those are not "more different" than a son and his father.

It's not Minecraft and never will be.
But the point of this conversation is what MT missing from MC.
So, why not follow the thread's title and discuss precisely that?
After all, in the case some MC feature would be considered "lame", then, I guess, MT does NOT miss it from MC at all.
End of story, bring in next MC feature and discuss it :)

So instead of posting "no MC, please" type of messages let us focus on what can and *should* be "ported".
And please, don't tell me that you don't want *any* MC-like feature.
'Cause if you do, you should get rid of all tools, farming, crafting grid, "creative" mode and much more.
I'm not saying those are MC inventions, but it wasn't me who don't want MC-like features added even as an completely optional mod.

Regards!

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by benrob0329 » Post

Polish,
head movement (I don't think that that's very reasonable with Irrlicht)
Lighting
Aaaand...um....I can't think of anything....
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4aiman
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by 4aiman » Post

> Polish
It's is a bit too vague.

I'm going in the direction of polish ~= "make smarter, more consistent, add features, let players do MORE than just playing with digital LEGO".


>Head movement
Well, that is entirely possible w/o any changes to Irrlicht.
But while it would be nice to have moving head, the game (and I mean *any* subgame) is not yet ready for such changes. It would be as weird as having Ultra HD textures for mobs and 16x textures for the environment.

>Lighting
+ 100500
Too bad it will be a major overhaul.
Knowing that there were some snippets done, I guess that may take a year or so.

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by benrob0329 » Post

By polish I ment things like head movement, lighting and such. I would help with lighting but my C++ skills are fairly non existant right now...
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4aiman
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by 4aiman » Post

Then, if I were the one to decide, this kind of "polish" would be a no.
Only because those are not essential to make a fine subgame.
I'm all for new lighting system, but visual prettiness should be improved when everything else is just "cool".
Currently some pretty textures + 3d armour + visual wielded item will suffice.
I would help with lighting but my C++ skills are fairly non existant right now...
Heh... Once upon a time I was disliked to the bottom of the reputation well for this kind of a message. )))

But in all seriousness, knowing C/C++ syntax and some compiler tricks won't add much to your ability to code lighting for Minetest. You'll need to learn Irrlicht as well...

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by AccidentallyRhine » Post

4aiman wrote:Heh... Once upon a time I was disliked to the bottom of the reputation well for this kind of a message.
Story time!
xWzyMP8HoXkGdqgxyKQ0yJXnXZzhYtln

4aiman
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by 4aiman » Post

AnxiousInfusion wrote:
4aiman wrote:Heh... Once upon a time I was disliked to the bottom of the reputation well for this kind of a message.
Story time!
Sarcasm time! ;-p

Oh, wait!
Maybe it's "offtopic time"?..
Arrrghhhh....
...
Gosh, now it's "pirate time"...
What am I going to do?!!



PS: I'd suggest re-reading the whole topic. Everyone who didn't should definitely do it.

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by benrob0329 » Post

Good suggestion, rereading it helped.

I think it's all the little things that matter. Little stuff as in:

Being able to see what a player is mining

More sound effects

Subgame defined background music
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4aiman
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by 4aiman » Post

Agreed here :)


> Subgame defined background music

It has been a while since the in-game music was suggested for the first time.

@freeminer.org I suggested an idea of having some "base theme".
It was meant to play occasionally anywhere.
Then there were "moods" - a litte pieces of music that should've been played along the "base theme" to mix with it and alter it somehow.
There was a "mood" for every biome plus "town mood", "machinery mood", "danger mood" etc.

The idea was nice but there were no coders and no composers to make that possible.


Another idea was to implement things MMRPG-like.
There should've been "theme areas".
Every area should've played it's "theme".
This one was simpler than the first one, but ppl wanted to be able to define several themes per biome.
I don't remember ppl working out a compromise to satisfy most of them.


Right now BG music is perfectly doable thing, but Lua-based search for conditions of theme choice would be too slow in comparison with some way to define areas from C++.


> Being able to see what a player is mining

Do you mean drawing cracks for every client?
I have an idea how to make a workaround in Lua right now: use entities with no collision box to highlight node or particle spawners to mark the place.
Both will affect network protocol efficiency, though.


> More sound effects
Search for Immerse sounds :)

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by SAMIAMNOT » Post

Playeranim adds head movement. I looked at a demo and it's REALLY close, the only difference is that the head only goes up and down and not left and right, but that really matters little.
I test mines.

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by benrob0329 » Post

playeranim doesn't have the animations that make the game feel more alive to me, breathing and smooth walking and such.
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Dragonop » Post

benrob0329 wrote:playeranim doesn't have the animations that make the game feel more alive to me, breathing and smooth walking and such.
breathing? smooth walking? I think you are thinking on other types of videogames.
(btw, to add a walking sensation, all blocks should have walking sounds! I think that will be a great addition.)

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by benrob0329 » Post

I'm thinking of my favorite game, Minetest XP

Look at Sam when he is standing still, you will see him almost breath, I guess it's not quite 'breathing' but I don't know what else to call it...
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by SAMIAMNOT » Post

It is breathing. But yeah, the animations could be smoother, although they arent worth complaining.
I test mines.

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by lordtoran » Post

Minetest was my first exposure to this class of games, and after I had bought Minecraft – just in order to know what all the fuss and talk is about – I quickly regretted paying the 19.95 €.

MC horribly sucks as a sandbox to just build beautiful things in. And that's everything I want and expect. There is no easy way to, say, add a few hundred pretty new blocks to the base game. And talk on the MC forums anyway revolves mostly around multiplayer survival, not the creative stuff, so I was turned away from there too.

Minetest probably won't succeed as long as it is an obvious clone grounded on the same paradigm(s), and it certainly won't catch that other game's player base by copying its concepts. MT is a vastly superior sandbox and should IMHO consequently focus on that and develop as such, without looking back to its roots. For me such a direction would mean:
  • Supplying a big heap of default content (integrating major mods that everyone has installed anyway, like mesecons and plantlife)
  • More eye candy than similar games can offer, because the simulation aspect would become more important
  • More detail and realism in terms of the physical environment, like different types of weather and natural hazards (caused in turn by environmental parameters), effects of temperature changes throughout the day, visible seasons, player can heatstroke when sprinting in a hot area, or freeze to death in cold water or with too thin clothing etc.
  • Doing away with biomes in favor of something more generic. The biome concept places artificial restrictions on what can happen at one location in the world, by assuming a fixed, unchangeable set of environmental parameters. Why not a realistic temporal worldgen like in Dwarf Fortress. After generating the mountains, rocks and ores and simulating erosion and tectonics, create the surface layers according to average temperature, humidity, maximum temperature span throughout the day and year, prevailing wind direction and speed; even parameters like surface albedo could be factored in. And these parameters could change at any time; with the time of day, the seasons, also after certain events like flooding or shadowing the area (obviously).
  • A less sterile environment. Foremost: Sounds. And how about more atmospheric lighting effects. Lots of different plants by default. A few non-hostile default mobs and maybe villages, ruins or artifacts here and there so it isn't so lifeless. Random events like natural disasters, appearance of a powerful artifact or entity, or in survival mode, invasions, hurricanes or meteor impacts. Maybe even a concept of spirituality. You could find or build shrines and gain the affection of a deity. The deity may temporarily grant the player access to resources or supernatural attack abilities.
  • An exhaustive ingame manual.
Just a few thoughts of mine. I know the game is ridicuously easy to mod but what a new player gets is the unmodded game and he/she will judge by that.

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by rubenwardy » Post

I totally agree with that lordtoran.

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