What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Kpenguin » Thu Jan 14, 2016 18:35

SamCinnamon wrote:Just my thoughts on what can be improved:
1. Mobs (skins, animations, personality)
- All mobs should have a consistent, clean look, and a good variety come pre-installed.
- Their animations can be better. (Swaying of the PC should be removed)
- Mobs should also interact with one another, rarely. (Wolf, sheep, etc.)

- Maybe add some people mobs that randomly appear and give the player quests or tasks to preform, (with rewards) making the world feel more alive? Their writing should be well done (similar to Zelda or jrpg games) to add personality to the game world. This would be much better than the boring villagers in vanilla Minecraft.

2. Sounds
- Sound effects can be improved, as well as atmospheric music added.

3. UI, Look, Usability
- Icons in the main menu are blurry.
- Add a button to reset keys to default.
- Way to easily resize window to fit screen within Minetest.
- More shaders and lighting options.
- Easy way to install the best mods and texture packs within Minetest, or a link to a top-rated list.
- Add controller support.

Other than that, Minetest is excellent. If the overall presentation can be improved, it'll be as good as or superior to other similar games.

I agree with you for the most part.
1.
- I don't think mobs are a necessity, but I definitely think we need a clean, polished, uniform mobs mod available. The mobs redo textures and models are terrible IMO and they don't really fit with the style of the rest of the game (e.g. cow and pig don't look blocky at all).

2.
- Yes, yes, and yes to the sound effects and atmospheric music. I don't even own Minecraft, but I listen to the background soundtrack all the time. It's beautiful, calming, and professionally composed. The ambience mod helps with this, but not fully.

3.
- I agree that Minetest needs a more polished feel to it. It definitely looks and feels like a game that is still in development. I would also like to see controller support in the future. I think it would really help Minetest to stand out from Minecraft
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by lisacvuk » Sat Jan 16, 2016 16:51

Also, easy-to-find fullscreen option. Maybe it should ask user does he want fullscreen at the first lauch?
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by AccidentallyRhine » Sun Jan 17, 2016 07:02

Honestly, there are little things that everyone overlooks such as text which scales as you shrink or grow the window, or colored text that servers love so much. I could see those taking a lot less time to implement than something like a uniform mobs API.
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Samson1 » Wed Feb 17, 2016 13:17

Minetest is missing redstone, don't say mesecones because there is 100x more to redstone and Minecraft command blocks then any one could know if they don't play MC,

for example: if you do ( /cannon ) the node that your courser is pointing at will blow up. (note: the cannon command only works in 1.7.10)


Also the Minetest developers don't seen to have come up with a map generator that's any were near as good as MC's yet :(
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by DatJohnDoe » Wed Feb 17, 2016 13:51

Samson1 wrote:Minetest is missing redstone, don't say mesecones because there is 100x more to redstone and Minecraft command blocks then any one could know if they don't play MC,

for example: if you do ( /cannon ) the node that your courser is pointing at will blow up. (note: the cannon command only works in 1.7.10)


Also the Minetest developers don't seen to have come up with a map generator that's any were near as good as MC's yet :(

I personally don't see anything wrong with the mapgen, and I actually think it is easier to use mesecons than redstone because mesecons have the "GATES" as a node instead of having to build a whole "GATE" yourself
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Kpenguin » Wed Feb 17, 2016 15:12

Samson1 wrote:Also the Minetest developers don't seen to have come up with a map generator that's any were near as good as MC's yet :(

I like the magen pretty well actually. Minecraft has recently added some more cool biomes in their recent mapgen, but I think Minetest keeps up pretty well in that realm.
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Calinou » Wed Feb 17, 2016 21:54

lisacvuk wrote:Also, easy-to-find fullscreen option. Maybe it should ask user does he want fullscreen at the first lauch?


We should just support F11 as well as Alt+Enter to toggle fullscreen, those are common combinations in programs.
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by yyt16384 » Thu Feb 18, 2016 02:32

Samson1 wrote:Minetest is missing redstone, don't say mesecones because there is 100x more to redstone and Minecraft command blocks then any one could know if they don't play MC,


Mesecons have luacontrollers, which are more powerful than anything in vanilla MC (not sure about MC mods). The only bad thing about mesecons is being too slow.

Samson1 wrote:Also the Minetest developers don't seen to have come up with a map generator that's any were near as good as MC's yet :(


What's wrong with current mapgens, other than (probably) missing some biomes?
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by benrob0329 » Thu Feb 18, 2016 04:55

I like Mesecons, and the biggest problem with them is the inability to make a piston door that easily recesses into the walls.

Wait...I just had an idea!
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by yyt16384 » Thu Feb 18, 2016 07:32

benrob0329 wrote:I like Mesecons, and the biggest problem with them is the inability to make a piston door that easily recesses into the walls.

Wait...I just had an idea!


If it doesn't have to be a piston door, sticky movestones are perfect for this.
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by orwell » Mon Mar 07, 2016 20:27

I am hosting a closed Minetest server for me and some friends. I think I have over-modded the server a bit but that's what makes it interesting. We often find features we did not recognize before from which we didn't even know exist.
But well, that's not the topic.
Another friend of mine hosts a closed minetest server almost the same way I do. The last time I talked to him I asked him about the server and found out everyone on this server already has a full diamond armor and is just trolling around the server now. That does not happen on my server. With moreores and the hard-to-find mithril mineral, you need some time to get to this point. Tenplus1's mobs redo and all the modpacks with ported animals/monsters offer a wide variety of stuff. There are some more examples.
Most people I ask tell me that MC is better than MT. If I ask them why, they answer "Because it's a clone". But Minetest is not a clone of MC, it has a whole different concept.
Mojang decides what to include into Minecraft, and for some reasons all players are excited about the new features merged. Minetest is a pre-alpha game and can keep up to Minecraft's features without problems, but no one recognizes it. As someone already mentioned, Minetest is just lacking marketing.
Instead Minetest is just more powerful, because you can decide yourself what you want and what not. Unfortunately, that's not what most players want. Most players want a predefined set of features like Minecraft has.
What we should do:
- Include a set of feature-rich subgames into the game
- on the website, point out the engine character of Minetest some more.
(more like "Carbone is a game running in the Minetest engine" than "Minetest has a Carbone subgame")
Then users can concentrate on tracking the development status of subgames instead of the engine.

Just BTW: Tell people using the "clone" argument that Minecraft is a clone of Infiniminer.
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by MineYoshi » Tue Mar 08, 2016 01:21

orwell wrote:Most people I ask tell me that MC is better than MT. If I ask them why, they answer "Because it's a clone". But Minetest is not a clone of MC, it has a whole different concept.
Mojang decides what to include into Minecraft, and for some reasons all players are excited about the new features merged. Minetest is a pre-alpha game and can keep up to Minecraft's features without problems, but no one recognizes it. As someone already mentioned, Minetest is just lacking marketing.
Instead Minetest is just more powerful, because you can decide yourself what you want and what not. Unfortunately, that's not what most players want. Most players want a predefined set of features like Minecraft has.
What we should do:
- Include a set of feature-rich subgames into the game
- on the website, point out the engine character of Minetest some more.
(more like "Carbone is a game running in the Minetest engine" than "Minetest has a Carbone subgame")
Then users can concentrate on tracking the development status of subgames instead of the engine.

Just BTW: Tell people using the "clone" argument that Minecraft is a clone of Infiniminer.



In really IMHO i think Minetest don't sends MC to the F*** because it's free, it doesn't have big publicy everywhere saying lies about that sh** of game!
Minetest is for who are free, for who don't like to play always the same sh** and live in a community of trolls and rat kids.
MC wasn't so famous, M$ buy that crap and become famous, the 99.9% of MC players are kids, that says crap and don't know what is "education" apparently
his fathers only left him in a PC all the day, if at least they say them : "With the other people, that be online or in real life you should be educated, that will do all the people love you, and they help when you need it!" But apparently they only are in his job, without know that exists something that is a "son" and they should teach him, how is the life, what you should do, what you shouldn't you and How be with the other people!

I miss that days, that the "fathers" were "fathers" if we see normally the people of before were very kind and servicial.
But well a PC is good, but if you left your son be there all day, and don't teach him, at least play sports sometimes, the PC is good and is very functional, but you should "socialize" with other people , what is "primitive" these days!

That RAT kids (I say rats because in south america rat means: Robber, stupid, a person that is very bad with others, in conclusion that he always do what he wants and that is a very bad person (apart that is an animal, It's obvious!)) Only play MC because they see a Famous youtuber, that only teaches him how not be kind, say bad words and that things! Playing MC that becomes famous and stupidly awesome for everyone, and if you don't know what's that, or if you don't like it You are the mostest weird person in all the world, inclusively if is the mostest stupid game ever, the famous youtubers, don't play Minetest only because isn't so famous and that isn't the crappy and sh** type content everyone likes to see, Minetest is a game for everyone (Vanilla game, some mods can make it inclusively +18) and for the kids of today, if don't have blood, there are people saying bad words, there isn't any sex content, and if don't have the best graphics, is the mostest primitive and boring game of all the history! (IMHO something very stupid, if the kids of today played zelda or SMB, surely 99.9% says: "ohhh, this is so hard and stupid, i don't like it, is very boring and i don't like i choose GTA5!. (For who doesn't know what's that maybe because he is in his job or simply doesn't take too much care to that things! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Theft_Auto_V Is the mostest stupid and innapropiated game for kids)
Sorry for my coarse language, only makes me feel so angry this situation with MC, and that's the true about MC his players are only kids that doesn't know at least what is Java and they think they are hardcore, and the mostest smart person in the world! (And i don't say geek, because 85.5% of them, i think don't know what is geek!)

MC is famous only because his excesive publicy!

Everyone here knows that here, If Minetest be a Closed-Source Game, surely sends to the F*** to MC (I pray everyday for Minetest always be Open-Source Nobody wants another MC here!)
Minetest haves more possibilities to triumph than MC, simply for the people that makes games, that codes, Minetest is a Oasis of Open Source between MC dessert of closed source!

I showed Minetest to a friend that's like me, program and code makes a perfect day, only you, your computer, and a mug of coffee (In really the bugs, sometimes ruin it, but when you fix it, it's a happiness) And he see it, A MC game-like and it's open source, he say me: "Holy cow, this is perfect, thanks bro for show it to me" now he plays it, and he makes his mods!

That shows that Minetest is for Free people, that likes a game...

...When you can modify everything!

Normal people always says: "Minetest is a Clone/Cheaper version of MC" inclusively my cousin said that to me!
But if you see it very good, in really is very different to MC, After all is like Minetest And MC where brothers , "very samely" when you see him normally, but if you see good, you realize that they aren't so same, one (MC) only wants the $ and he always have better graphics, but his community, who plays it, always are bad and troll people!
Instead Minetest is the other that wants to be free, don't matter what will happen' he only wants to show everyone, that be a free game, without ads , that being a not lucrative game don't means that is a bad game, instead that means that when you need help, someone will give it to you!
That you can modify the game as you want, no limits, you can share it, to who you want without fear of being accused of piracy!

That is a FREE game, and nobody can't say that isn't true, Minetest shows you that what matter isn't the money, is how you are!

(Yes a life reflection!.... -_- )

And if you have a bug, if you know you can fix it by yourself!
Instead of waiting someone if a forum answers you!

And i think, the same about website, we should show the subgames more!

Anyways , the engine is the important thing to geeks and developers!

AND
BTW: I think Minetest should have better graphics, and have less lag!
But that lag compared to MC lag, i prefire Minetest a lot!
Java always is very slow and laggy!
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by orwell » Wed Mar 09, 2016 17:19

Since finally that metadata packet pull request will be merged in 0.4.14, the main source of lag(IMO) will be eliminated.
(Yay)
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Linuxdirk » Wed Mar 09, 2016 19:06

orwell wrote:Minetest is just lacking marketing.

As of today a closed-source commercial Microsoft game has a better internal modding API than an open-source voxel engine designed to be modded.

I’m not speaking about hiring a texture graphics artist or how easy it is adding crafting recipes and new objects.

I’m speaking of lighting changes still done by altering the node’s texture’s hue. The impossibility or randomized texture rotations for having better looking grass textures for example, or that the light color is still only shades of white.

Or texture packs that can be combined by simply putting them all zipped into the texture packs folder and then enabling them within the client giving them an order and the game automatically “cascades” them, from top to integrated default textures making it possible to use textures from a various amount of different texture packs at the same time each styling nodes individually (i.e. texture pack A has textures for the nodes 1, 2 and 3 and texture pack B has textures only of node 2 and is “on top of” texture pack A, so the result would be nodes 1 and 3 are styled like A defines, and node 2 has the texture B provides).

Someone wrote the described behavior can be easily achieved to manually copying all texture pack contents into one directory. While this is true this is a stupid and hacky workaround shit that can’t be compared in any way to the flexibility and functionality Minecraft Resource Packs allow you to do!

Oh, and modding … Well, add mobs. Whoops, no mobs API. Change the world size and add a visible world border that gives you damage when leaving the area and make that world border changeable from within the game on the fly. Whoops, impossible in Minetest. Change gravity? Well, replace all air nodes with modified air nodes maybe? Per player? Nope. On the fly … well, not really. But you can use a mod for this, wow.

Use texture packs (or resource packs, or call-them-whatever-you-want-to packs) to add 3D models for already existing items in the game? Haha, no.

Sorry, but Minetest is NOT just lacking marketing. It’s lacking a shitload of API features and cleanup. It’s great for a beta version but FAR away from being finished – It doesn’t even have water flow that affects objects within the flowing water.
Last edited by Linuxdirk on Thu Mar 10, 2016 00:05, edited 1 time in total.
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Minerz » Wed Mar 09, 2016 22:56

Well, Minetest does not have the quality sound effects that Minecraft does. (I play Minecraft now, though rarely) It's also TOO EASY!! But I really like to weapon cooldown Minetest has. But Minecraft has that now, with 1.9.
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by orwell » Thu Mar 10, 2016 12:55

Linuxdirk wrote:Well, add mobs. Whoops, no mobs API.

There are masses of mobs APIs around. They are just mods themselves.
Linuxdirk wrote:Change the world size and add a visible world border that gives you damage when leaving the area and make that world border changeable from within the game on the fly.

Changing the world size: If someone had the motivation to rewrite all coordinate-related stuff, no problem. It would be possible and an idea for 0.5 version.
World border: there is a mod for!
Linuxdirk wrote:Change gravity?

What about player:set_physics_override()???
Linuxdirk wrote:Use texture packs (or resource packs, or call-them-whatever-you-want-to packs) to add 3D models for already existing items in the game? Haha, no.

Do we need this?
Linuxdirk wrote:It doesn’t even have water flow that affects objects within the flowing water.

There should be a mod for it, maybe I will write one.

Please stop looking at Minetest as a game, Minetest is an engine you can build games with. What you are talking about is minetest_game, which in fact has not so much content. You are right on what you said for texture packs, but that would be not too much work on the engine.

Is there a TO-DO-List around?
- add option to include multiple texture packs at once
- [low-priority][incompatibility change] increase world coordinate range to 32-bit unsigned and get rid of that database storage hash(and create 3 primary keys instead)(and increase hash size for other backends like redis)
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by TenPlus1 » Thu Mar 10, 2016 14:10

3D_Armor and PlayerPlus mods both change player physics depending on armor and node player stands on top of.

Many mobs api's out there ranging from simple to complex functions and features, my own Mobs Redo is in the middle of both.

The builtin_item mod included in my github.com/tenplus1 page has water flowing features to move dropped objects along to be collected in hoppers.
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Linuxdirk » Thu Mar 10, 2016 16:33

orwell wrote:There are masses of mobs APIs around. They are just mods themselves.

… and they’re all incompatible to each other, and slow because of Lua instead of compiled C or C++. (No, LuaJIT doesn’t make it better it’s just a workaround for a missing feature). There are absolutely no usable mobs API that comes with Minetest. All that there is, is some 3rd party mods that partially work (mobs are stupid as hell, the best you can get is mobs not dying when they try to reach you).

orwell wrote:World border: there is a mod for!

I know we should not compare, but please check this video to get an idea of what I’m talking here.

orwell wrote:What about player:set_physics_override()???

So I can simply use this with vanilla Minetest or using some kind of command block that lets me enter a command for that that will be triggered if a player performs a specific action?

orwell wrote:
Linuxdirk wrote:Use texture packs (or resource packs, or call-them-whatever-you-want-to packs) to add 3D models for already existing items in the game? Haha, no.

Do we need this?

If we want to re-style the ugly 2D models that are still present in the game without messing around with mods and replacing the default items with modded items only for changing their look, then yes.

orwell wrote:
Linuxdirk wrote:It doesn’t even have water flow that affects objects within the flowing water.

There should be a mod for it, maybe I will write one.

Why wasn’t it considered from the beginning on? Water flows. Everything in that flow should be affected by it.

orwell wrote:Please stop looking at Minetest as a game, Minetest is an engine you can build games with.

No, you can’t. The only real game I know that reaches a noticable quality is/was UFO Race.

All other “games” are just a bunch of mods cobbled together to add features the game’s creator feels like that should be added to the game. The best you get is Minetest with mods and graphics that are themed for a specific scenario.

There are no PVP games because the melee system is awful. There is no enemy survival games because all mob APIs more or less suck. There is no “you are captured, try to escape” games, because you can’t sufficiently limit the game’s features and enable them over time or when performing a specific task because you have no proper API hooks for that. There are no fantasy themed games with magic spells and potions because it’s simply impossible to properly hook into the API for changing even the most basic things. There are no “mindfuck labyrinths” because there isn’t seamless porting you eventually need for creating the confusion.

orwell wrote:Is there a TO-DO-List around?

There are the issues at GitHub but it feels like 90-95 percent of the great ideas to improve the game, or API, or engine, or call-it-whatever-you-want are simply ignored by the main devs.
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Don » Thu Mar 10, 2016 17:10

@Linuxdirk - There are many mods and subgames. People are working hard on improving them and making new ones. People are spending a lot of their personal time to do these things. They do not get paid for it but they continue to work hard.
Minetest and to Minetest Game continue to get better.
Mobs redo is the mobs mod that I use and I find it to be great. It is getting updates all the time.
I use worldedge to limit the size of the world.
There are a number of great mods that change player physics. Check out Player Tools

As for seeing Minetest as a game, I understand how it might not be easy. Fact is Minetest is a game engine. It is meant for people to make games for it. That it why Minetest Game is seperate from the engine. People are making some great subgames for Minetest. This shows how Minetest is an engine.

I also want to repeat that people are using their free time to make Minetest, mods and games. They do not get paid for it. I should also point out that this is a free game. To expect a free game to have as many programmers as a multi billion dollar company is unthinkable. The programmers Minetest has are great and work hard but can not be expected to keep up with massive companies.

Please try to respect the programmers and the work. Constructive criticism is great but when you are disrespect them they are less likely to stick around and be abused. Lets keep Minetest positive and moving forward.
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by rubenwardy » Thu Mar 10, 2016 17:16

Linuxdirk wrote:There are no PVP games because the melee system is awful.


I admit that the melee system isn't very good (no real feedback)
But the statement that there are no PVP games is just incorrect.

https://github.com/rubenwardy/capturetheflag
viewtopic.php?pid=66383

I tried making a magic mod and was hit by the constraints you mention.
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by orwell » Thu Mar 10, 2016 19:20

Linuxdirk wrote:
orwell wrote:What about player:set_physics_override()???

So I can simply use this with vanilla Minetest or using some kind of command block that lets me enter a command for that that will be triggered if a player performs a specific action?

1. there is no "vanilla minetest", since even minimal development test consists of 4 mods.
2. using worldedit's //lua (or any other mod adding the possibility to execute lua by command) you can use this without problems.
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by orwell » Thu Mar 10, 2016 19:21

Linuxdirk wrote:
orwell wrote:What about player:set_physics_override()???

So I can simply use this with vanilla Minetest or using some kind of command block that lets me enter a command for that that will be triggered if a player performs a specific action?

1. there is no "vanilla minetest", since even minimal development test consists of 4 mods.
2. using worldedit's //lua (or any other mod adding the possibility to execute lua by command) and mesecons (you need commandblocks) you can use this without problems.
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Linuxdirk » Fri Mar 11, 2016 18:33

Don wrote:Fact is Minetest is a game engine. It is meant for people to make games for it.

Then why is there such an extremely limited modding API? I see that some people do their best to actually make something that doesn’t feel like “‘Minetest Game’ with some mods and new graphics”. But Most of it is exactly that (some subgames are better, some are worse). If it’s an engine, why do all games made with that engine basically be more or less the same?

Sorry, I just don’t see the diversity here and I think it’s mainly because the lack of a proper API making it possible to easily change every single bit of the engine like Minecraft’s internal API is exactly that. Well, it’s still not officially announced but can be used if you “hack” into their obfuscated code, plus: most API hooks are propagated to userspace via commands and for their “Resource Pack” system allowing to change almost any aspect of the game’s content by simply adding the proper definition or using a set of commands.

Don wrote:Please try to respect the programmers and the work.

I do. Actually I do care A LOT about Minetest. Otherwise I just could say “It has no proper API, but oh well, for a free game it’s rather good” and go on. But no. Instead of just ignoring the problem Minetest has I spend my free time and create mods and try to bring Minetest forward in development by being active on GitHub (recently not so much of both because of I didn’t have much free-time).
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Wuzzy » Fri Mar 11, 2016 21:57

Okay, here's one: Being preinstalled on the Raspberry Pi.

That would be “Minetest Pi”.

There is Minecraft Pi which is a dumbed-down version of Minecraft for Raspberry Pi; more specifically, the Raspbian operating system comes pre-installed with it.

I mean, it doesn't make sense, right? The Raspberry Pi is supposed to be “open”, isn't it?
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Linuxdirk » Sun Mar 13, 2016 00:22

Wuzzy wrote:I mean, it doesn't make sense, right? The Raspberry Pi is supposed to be “open”, isn't it?

According to web research: When using Raspbian Jessie you can simply install it using sudo apt-get install minetest.

Instead of having a dumbed down version of a closed-source commercial Microsoft game pre-installed having Minetest pre-installed in Raspbian would be cool. But that’ll likely never happen :(
 

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