What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

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Jordach
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Jordach » Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:17

Linuxdirk wrote:
Byakuren wrote:Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but we should also consider what Minetest is lacking as a modding platform compared to Minecraft Forge, since that is the main platform for Minecraft mods.

We don’t even need to compare it to Forge. Just have a look on what Resource Packs are capable of doing. Or all the internal API stuff that is changable by a shit-ton of userspace commands and configuration options.

It makes me sad that a closed-source game owned by microsoft and developed in obfuscated Java code has a better modding API and options than an open-source engine intended to be a modding platform.

Some devs (unfortunately those with the most influence) are even strongly arguing against more configuration options or extending the API to allow more changes of the core features.

Linuxdirk - how about instead of having ideological discussion, how about actually developing a game instead of playing with apples and oranges.
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by burli » Thu Mar 09, 2017 12:17

I can understand both sides. In one side are the core devs. They have limited time and won't get payed for their work. They can't implement everything a modder or game Dev wishes.

On the other side are the game developers who can't make the game they want because of the limitations of the engine.

I really wish we had better mobs, but I think it will be impossible to do that in lua because it will always be laggy. But we don't have enough core devs to do that and I don't have the experience to make it myself
 

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Missing engine features for MineClone 2

by Wuzzy » Thu Mar 09, 2017 15:21

Because it's relevant I just dump two lists of missing Minetest features which are required for MineClone 2, a Minecraft clone:

List of missing engine features: http://repo.or.cz/MineClone/MineClone2. ... EATURES.md

List of MineClone 2 issues with the label “needs engine change”: https://github.com/Wuzzy2/MineClone2-Bu ... e%20change

The second list is updated automatically and the first list is updated whenever I feel like it.
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by burli » Thu Mar 09, 2017 15:36

- Require tools to be intact in crafting

This is already possible (see replacements), but...

https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5323
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by TumeniNodes » Thu Mar 09, 2017 15:56

The two games are so similar, on the visual scale (regardless of diff textures or colors) that it sets off a link in the brain.

To some brains: They look similar so, they should behave similar. (so why don't they?) 0_o

To other brains: I know they are different, but I want them to behave the same, because I don't want to or am unable to pay $26.95 for it. (or however much the price is, I forget ) :P

To a few brains: These two are vastly different and unable to behave exactly the same but, I'm not frustrated enough at work and/or other aspects in life so... I shall persevere to make them behave the same (or slightly more similar)... thus throwing myself into the abyss of nutbaggery. If I'm gonna go insane, I'd rather just go full tilt than half assed... :P

Then, there's this brain: Hey look!!!! Now I have two cool and fun games to play.... kewwwl : )

These are the 4 MT/MC related brain patterns in the human psyche.
The ONLY sane, and happy one..., is the last in the list.


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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Byakuren » Fri Mar 10, 2017 02:18

ABJ wrote:The attitude of quite a lot of Minetesters and devs is just sad. "Minetest is not Minecraft. STFU and GTFO. Period. We don't give a damn what you 12-year-old creeperheads want."

I don't know if you're being serious but I don't think this is accurate.
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Nyarg » Fri Mar 10, 2017 04:22

No !
MT is not MC because have not shadows )
I am a noob. still yet. Not so noob ) [vml] WIP and a little proof for fun PlantedTorch )))
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Linuxdirk » Thu Mar 16, 2017 16:49

Byakuren wrote:
ABJ wrote:The attitude of quite a lot of Minetesters and devs is just sad. "Minetest is not Minecraft. STFU and GTFO. Period. We don't give a damn what you 12-year-old creeperheads want."

I don't know if you're being serious but I don't think this is accurate.

Not exactly like that, but I've seen something like "we can't do/name/have something like this-or-that because Minecraft has that".
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by TumeniNodes » Sat Mar 18, 2017 11:17

What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

Financial backing from MS?? :P
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by drkwv » Tue Apr 25, 2017 04:20

TumeniNodes wrote:What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

Financial backing from MS?? :P

Microsoft has killed Minecraft. What financing do you talk about? I can't even start the Minecraft BOTH on Linux and Windows - it crashes. And I don't even bother to write a bugreport to them because my previous bugreport is still open and it's like 5 years old already.

So, what's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

1. Huge maps over 2kk blocks wide.
2. Multiple maps for the same world. (even more important than #1 because you could've simulated #1 using #2)
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by GreenDimond » Tue Apr 25, 2017 04:43

drkwv wrote:1. Huge maps over 2kk blocks wide.

Um, you mean 2k?
Minetest maps are 62k^3 blocks.
2. Multiple maps for the same world. (even more important than #1 because you could've simulated #1 using #2)

Copying world seeds can generate the same world. Or just copy/paste a world folder and name it something else.
Unless what you mean is realms, in which case you are correct, are not supported (yet).
Last edited by GreenDimond on Tue Apr 25, 2017 14:48, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by drkwv » Tue Apr 25, 2017 06:25

GreenDimond wrote:Um, you mean 2k?

I mean 2 million.
GreenDimond wrote:Unless what you mean is realms, in which case you are correct, are not supported (yet).

Maybe realms. They're also called dimensions/subworlds. Completely different worlds inside one world, like in Minecraft's Mystcraft mod. Although "minecraft realms" is a sort of web hosting and that's not what I'm talking about. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00_8_4tDBtw
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Linuxdirk » Tue Apr 25, 2017 06:35

GreenDimond wrote:Minetest maps are 32k^3 blocks (even though the Minetest website says 62000^3).

Uhm ...
[...] As of 0.4.10, the map is a cube with a side length of 61840 node lengths. The map has thus a volume equal to the volume of 61840^3 nodes = 236,487,637,504,000 nodes. The coordinates range from −30912 to 30927 in all dimensions.

http://wiki.minetest.net/FAQ#How_big_is_the_map.3F
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by ABJ » Tue Apr 25, 2017 09:04

GreenDimond, you appear to ignore the minus coordinates. Also, thanks, Linuxdirk.
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by GreenDimond » Tue Apr 25, 2017 14:47

Linuxdirk wrote:
GreenDimond wrote:Minetest maps are 32k^3 blocks (even though the Minetest website says 62000^3).

Uhm ...
[...] As of 0.4.10, the map is a cube with a side length of 61840 node lengths. The map has thus a volume equal to the volume of 61840^3 nodes = 236,487,637,504,000 nodes. The coordinates range from −30912 to 30927 in all dimensions.

http://wiki.minetest.net/FAQ#How_big_is_the_map.3F

Ah, yes I forgot the - coords. But that is not the point.
ABJ wrote:GreenDimond, you appear to ignore the minus coordinates. Also, thanks, Linuxdirk.

I don't need it told twice, thankyou.
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by DcNdrew » Wed May 03, 2017 02:25

drkwv wrote:I can't even start the Minecraft BOTH on Linux and Windows - it crashes.

Wait what? I play the same pack on Linux and Windows. :D
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by drkwv » Wed May 03, 2017 06:18

DcNdrew wrote:Wait what? I play the same pack on Linux and Windows. :D

I am very happy for you. You do not have to believe me if you do not want to.
Also, here is the bug I was talking about: https://bugs.mojang.com/browse/MC-23320
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by DcNdrew » Wed May 03, 2017 18:01

drkwv wrote:
DcNdrew wrote:Wait what? I play the same pack on Linux and Windows. :D

I am very happy for you. You do not have to believe me if you do not want to.
Also, here is the bug I was talking about: https://bugs.mojang.com/browse/MC-23320

I believe you.
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by SAMIAMNOT » Mon Jun 12, 2017 01:17

I was talking with my brother about this very thing and this is my diagnosis; Minetest is missing SOMETHING TO DO! Now I'll be honest; I really only play the LOTT server (and even then, not very often, I am taking a break from Minetest), and that game is wonderful. However, this was literally my first experience on my first Minetest "survival" world:

DAY ONE: I hurry and get some apples, cut down a tree, build myself a pickaxe and I spot a sheer cliff. Cool! No zombies (or other mobs) will be able to get me! I dig into the sheer cliff, cut out a 4x6 space for myself, put up a door and hunker down for the night.
DAY TWO: I go out, explore a little, find some ore, go back to my house and hunker down again. However, with my torch I realize that there are NO ZOMBIES! In fact, there are no mobs at all! Even worse, there's no hunger, so the only way I can die is by jumping off the sheer cliff. I promptly do so.

What Minetest is missing is incentive for you to do something. If I can do nothing but stand on the ground and not die or lose, the game (as packaged) is pretty worthless. Name any other popular game, they all require involvement.
And it's not like there aren't any quality Minetest games out there! Like I said, I most play LOTT (Lord of the Test). I'm not an LOTR fan, but I play LOTT because at least LOTT gives me something to do. (Plus, our mountain is surrounded by a dragon, and I am curious as to how I should slay it.)
Maybe the Minetest leaders should incorporate a game that has the right balance of excitement and vanilla-ness.
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Drop Minetest Game as default

by Wuzzy » Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:21

Note that Minetest does not equal Minetest Game.

Almost all problems with Minetest Game will be instantly solved it is just ditched it as the default subgame and replaced with something more complete. Pixture looks promising (even if it is very simplistic), but it needs bugfixes. I'm inclined to suggest to rename Minetest Game to Paramat's Game because paramat seems to be the only major force behind this right now. ;-D
Joke aside, paramat once said that Minetest Game is not even really intended as a complete and exciting subgame. Which really begs the question of why the hell should we be shipping a subgame which is incomplete by design as a default. I'm not saying Minetest Game development should stop as it can still be useful as a “modding base”. But this is clearly something for developers, not players (especially new players!) and therefore is a poor default selection.

Either that, or we should plaster a big fat red warning everywhere that Minetest Game is not really playable at the moment, that you are expected to install mods and/or that the real games/subgames can be downloaded at <insert URL here>. Minetest Game is alpha-stage software at best.

Or we just drop the idea of a default subgame altogether and ship nothing by default and advertise every subgame at a reasonable level of quality and completion more or less equally. Hint: Minetest Game does not have “a reasonable level of quality and completion”, as of version 0.4.16. Unless you take mods into account, but then we need that big fat red warning again. :D
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by cx384 » Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:38

I'm for the big fat red warning everywhere!
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