What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

bzt
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by bzt » Post

Right now I miss one feature, biome specific nodes. The biomes register nodes like "node_filler", "node_top", "node_stone", "node_tree" etc., it would be great if I could refer those in schematic files (similarly to the mapgen aliases) like "biome:node_stone". I don't know how Minecraft does this, and frankly I really don't care about MC. But it would be great if I could load a house into the MT world which would use pine tree on taiga, and jungle tree if the placement position is in a jungle biome.

If anybody could help me a little bit what would be the best way to implement this, I'm willing to put some work in it and do it. I've checked the source, and I saw that the Lua interface already got a replacement node list, however I don't think that would be the right place for this (as that's a user provided replacement list). I guess it would be better to subsitute biome specific nodes with the actual biome property values in the schematic decorator class. In order to do that, I should add the biome pointer for the placement position to the schematic struct, so that that information could be accessed in the decorator class easily without consulting the map (also it would provide a better abstraction for testing). What is your thoughts? Is there a better way to get the biome for the position where the schematic is placed?

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Hume2 » Post

Wuzzy wrote:Minetest is still missing a pointless height restriction of 256 blocks. :D

But something tells me that chances for it being implemented are rather slim …

PS: Yes, I agree this thread has gone out of control, and I don't really take it seriously. xD
We also need to remove Herobrine :D
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by warpnarget » Post

both player hands

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Re: wHaT's MiNeTeSt StiLl MiSsInG oVeR MiNeCrAfT?

by Wuzzy » Post

bUt HaViNg A sInGlE hAnD iS wHaT mAkEs MiNeTeSt UnIqUe!!!11
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Re: wHaT's MiNeTeSt StiLl MiSsInG oVeR MiNeCrAfT?

by Linuxdirk » Post

Wuzzy wrote:bUt HaViNg A sInGlE hAnD iS wHaT mAkEs MiNeTeSt UnIqUe!!!11
So does nodes and water can’t be in the same place at the same time.

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by That_one_Guy » Post

MiniGames!

Minecraft has a ton: https://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Minigames

Some exist, like [Spleef](https://github.com/indriApollo/spleef) but they don't appear to be very popular.

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Wuzzy » Post

Actually, we once had Hungry Games servers, but they seemed to have disappered, sadly. :(

But different minigames became popular: Mese Wars, Hide&Seek.
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Khyrberos » Post

A very interesting topic. Haven't read all 39 pages, but even with my limited experience (& my self-stated excitement for playing/modding Minetest), I have to admit I noticed similar things as OP has.

It's strange to think that it might indeed be as simple as the Presentation (i.e. visual & audio effects). I wonder.

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Hume2 » Post

Also rewrite whole Minetest into Java :D
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by rubenwardy » Post

Wuzzy wrote:
But different minigames became popular: Mese Wars, Hide&Seek.
CTF rose in popularity at the same time that hungry games declined

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by kuboid » Post

Graphics are secondary. Sound matters. For example, I have been playing a lot of Repixture (nice one!) lately.

Con (lack of atmosphere):
No background music! Best would be music matching the daytime, biome and danger situation. The music in MC adds a lot to atmosphere. Have you ever played Wing Commander 1 and 2? The music in 2 was much thinner, which removed a lot of the great atmosphere of WC1, the music adapted to the current level of danger. It was like being part of a good movie.

Pro (adding to atmosphere):
the background sounds are sooo great in Repixture! When you walk through the wood and hear imaginary birds tweet, _this_ adds atmosphere! Or the frogs at night! Even better would be some small decoration mobs. Insects, birds, rats, you name it. Maybe there is a good mod which matches the style of Repixture.

Otherwise I agree to the consistency problem. Mobs often look like from a wrong world, or act stupid. E.g. in MC, hostile mobs will stop hunting you when you hide in a house. Or will seek shadow when the sun comes out. Villagers will flee dangers, what gives a realistic impression.

Good physics are also important. Much more important than shiny graphics. This is what makes Half-Life 2 still a great game, besides being 15(!) years old and running smoothly on shitty graphics boards (from today's perspective).
In MT, blocks that fall if not connected to structures would add a lot of realism and atmosphere I'd say. Yes I know that this could cause chain reactions that kill your CPU. But I also think this can be dealt with.

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Linuxdirk » Post

kuboid wrote:When you walk through the wood and hear imaginary birds tweet, _this_ adds atmosphere!
There are mods doing this. The problem I have with all of them: This is too sudden. If you climb a mountain at some point it goes from complete silence to a howling storm that blast away your speakers. Or ambiance sounds in caves. They mostly not feel like coming from deeper in the cave but instead screaming right into your ears.

Same with most music mods. It starts too loud and the music is too much in the foreground (also it causes trouble on YouTube even if free music was used – been there, done that … twice).

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by FaceDeer » Post

kuboid wrote:Graphics are secondary. Sound matters.
I was thinking about this the other day, wanting to add some background sounds to a mapgen mod I'm developing, and remembered that the default game has flowing water sounds now. So I went to see how it does that.

There's a simple little mod, env_sounds, responsible for that. I've done some work trying to generalize it with an API that would allow other nodes to be added as sound sources. I think this would add a lot of life to the world, but I'm not sure whether the approach env_sounds takes will scale well to dozens or even hundreds of sound types.

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Khyrberos » Post

I think this could be a big thing to help Minetest out.

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by FaceDeer » Post

If you want to play around with my efforts at creating an env_sound API, my fork-in-progress is here and the quick-and-dirty test mod I've been testing it with is here, called "ambient_test". If you try this with the existing minetest_game you'll need to remove its env_sound mod, the names currently conflict (ideally I'll submit it back to minetest_game, if it's accepted).

The way the mod works is that it regularly "pings" the local surroundings of the player looking for specific types of nodes. If it finds the nodes, and if various other conditions are met, it will play a sound originating from the average location of the nodes and with a sound that may be adjusted based on the number of nodes. There's a lot of parameters you can tweak for different kinds of ambient noises.

So for example:

I've set up a quiet, cold and spooky wind sound that plays when it's night time and you're near lots of snow. A couple of snow blocks won't do, you need to be near a bunch of them.

I've got a cardinal birdsong chirp that plays in leaves that are near soil during the day, and an owl hoot that plays in leaves near soil during the night. Not the most sophisticated forest-detection mechanism but I'm trying to keep the CPU burden under control by not getting too fancy. This one doesn't use the average position of the nodes, it plays from a random nearby leaf node location.

There's a "waves breaking on the beach" that plays when you're near at least 64 water source nodes, at an elevation between -4 and 8, and near at least one sand node. That seems pretty good at keeping it beach-specific.

There's a boiling lava rumble that plays whenever you're near lava, with an intensity varying based on the amount of lava. Nice and creepy when you're digging through rock and start hearing that.

Those are just what I've thrown together to test out various scenarios, it's not a comprehensive soundscape yet. Eventually someday.

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Khyrberos » Post

Sounds like an excellent start (ingenious method for detecting forests btw). I don't know when I'll get a chance to check it out, but I'll do what I can. : )

One thought that came to mind (& perhaps this lends itself to a different discussion vis-a-vis mod interactions): I'm all for the purely environmental stuff (lava, beach, snowscape, etc), but if one was also implementing a "critter" mod (i.e. minor non-hostile creatures), wouldn't it make more sense to have the sound emanate from them (e.g. an owl & a bird)? Or could both coexist?
(I guess it gets tough because it's like "sure that would make more sense but I'm not making a critter mod & can't expect one to exist"... Hm.)

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by FaceDeer » Post

Khyrberos wrote:I'm all for the purely environmental stuff (lava, beach, snowscape, etc), but if one was also implementing a "critter" mod (i.e. minor non-hostile creatures), wouldn't it make more sense to have the sound emanate from them (e.g. an owl & a bird)? Or could both coexist?
(I guess it gets tough because it's like "sure that would make more sense but I'm not making a critter mod & can't expect one to exist"... Hm.)
There's usually multiple different ways to solve any given problem, yeah. :)

I would imagine if you had a critter mod that actually put little birdie entities flittering around in the forest emitting their own chirps you'd want to disable the ambient birdsong sounds coming from a simple mod like env_sounds. Same as the case where someone made a mod that created actual rolling-wave entities sliding across the ocean surface and crashing into the shore. The thing is, all those things sound like they'd be really hard and complicated to program, and I (as with most programmers) am fundamentally lazy. That's why we chose a career that consists entirely of telling computers to do all the hard work for us.

It's pretty easy to pop over to freesound.org, find a nice clip of someone throwing up, and then bang out a quick env_sounds.register_sound() definition to make that sound play whenever the player is near a bunch of "vomiting_tree:trunk" nodes. It's way more complicated to make the trees actually throw up whenever the player is nearby, so as long as the sound is good enough, why not just do that?

(Disclaimer: I am not planning to work on a "vomiting_tree" mod. I have no idea why that was the hypothetical example that popped to mind).

ambient_test is just a bunch of test cases at the moment, but if I were to flesh it out into a full soundscape someday I'd probably litter it with minetest.settings checks to allow server admins to easily enable and disable various sounds to suit their particular games.

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by DrFrankenstone » Post

How does it compare to ambience redo?

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by FaceDeer » Post

DrFrankenstone wrote:How does it compare to ambience redo?
ambience_redo offloads a lot of complexity into the "sound_check" function that a modder is supposed to write. In theory that lets you do more fancy stuff than what I've currently got in env_sounds, but it requires the modder to write all those conditions and modifiers into the sound_check function themselves.

What I was going for is an API that handles 99% of the conditions that you'd likely want to build into the sound_check function without requiring you to actually write the function handling it, just providing the various parameters. If you look through the various predefined soundsets in soundsets.lua you'll find that their sound_check functions are all doing stuff that the parameters of the definition table in my version of env_sounds handles - counting how many of each type of node is nearby, checking the time of day, checking the current elevation, etc.

env_sounds also uses a different approach for running its "update loop." ambience_redo uses a globalstep timer that ticks once a second, env_sounds uses a repeating minetest.after call that ticks at whatever interval the sound definition needs. I honestly don't know which is more efficient, that's one of the things I asked paramat about and haven't got a response for yet. I'm assuming the minetest.after loop is more efficient simply because that's what's used in the default minetest_game mod, but I know that's not really a guarantee. I haven't tried profiling it myself yet.

Also, I haven't investigated ambience_redo very deeply but I think it only plays one soundset at a time. env_sounds plays whatever soundsets are applicable. env_sounds is also more focused on the directionality of the sound, I think. I'd need to investigate ambience_redo more closely to be sure but it doesn't seem to care much about where the sound-emitting nodes are, just that there's some nearby. env_sounds tries to put the origin point of the sound in a direction corresponding to the nodes that are causing it to be emitted.

Some of the audio files in ambience_redo are very long, env_sounds works best with sounds that are only a few seconds long to allow for quicker adaptation as the player approaches or walks away from nodes that generate those sounds.

Ultimately, I wouldn't necessarily call one "better" or "worse." I do think the simplicity of my API will make it easier to use, which will mean more widespread adoption - especially if it gets back into minetest_game itself. Hearken back to my comment about programmers being an inherently lazy bunch, we generally like an API that doesn't require us to write more code than we have to.

This isn't really a mod I've been focusing on much, I started tinkering with it mainly in hopes of using it with dfcaverns someday. I'll try poking a bit more to see if there's any chance I can get this into minetest_game and if not I'll rename it and make it into a stand-alone to see if anyone wants to use it anyway.

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Are6 » Post

Um... <h3>MineTest</h3> is still lacking droppers and dispensers in the <h3>MeseCons</h3> category, more trees, more materials (as right now we don't have terracotta, etc.) and it lacks pillagers & villagers.
Are6

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Miniontoby » Post

For things like droppers and dispensers you can use pipeworks mod, for villagers there is a mod named simple_villages, and for some of the other thing there is also a mod for but I don't really need it so IDK the name of.
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by pampogokiraly » Post

Are6 wrote:Um... <h3>MineTest</h3> is still lacking droppers and dispensers in the <h3>MeseCons</h3> category, more trees, more materials (as right now we don't have terracotta, etc.) and it lacks pillagers & villagers.
This is not the discussion about What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft if we want to copy it? this is just about the gameplay... and the survival feeling if you understand what i mean
My mod (a bit old) request: Better enchant. My second mod: Old Broken Castle nodes. Search for aab01 to find my mods!

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by PolySaken » Post

This topic should be changed to What's Minetest Still Missing, it doesn't have to relate to minecraft.
colored lights + remove max light limit and just make the max light value be a default

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Are6 » Post

Miniontoby wrote:For things like droppers and dispensers you can use pipeworks mod, for villagers there is a mod named simple_villages, and for some of the other thing there is also a mod for but I don't really need it so IDK the name of.
Thanks!
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by cuthbertdoublebarrel » Post

newbie here who never played minecraft but after getting immersed in mineclone2 i decided to watch a few vids to see what i had been missing .being a old skool gamer (Atic Atac Anyone ?)
It became glaring apparent what is missing from minetest .
the highscore on the death screen, for added incentive and replay value . the stat screen and highscore table.
not just for survival mode, but to track the percentage of time you have spent on different tasks. how many fish you have caught, how many trees cut down the amounts and types of ore collected and so on ,the more indepth the better .
that is all part of the gameplay .
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