What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

bzt
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by bzt » Fri Dec 20, 2019 16:37

Right now I miss one feature, biome specific nodes. The biomes register nodes like "node_filler", "node_top", "node_stone", "node_tree" etc., it would be great if I could refer those in schematic files (similarly to the mapgen aliases) like "biome:node_stone". I don't know how Minecraft does this, and frankly I really don't care about MC. But it would be great if I could load a house into the MT world which would use pine tree on taiga, and jungle tree if the placement position is in a jungle biome.

If anybody could help me a little bit what would be the best way to implement this, I'm willing to put some work in it and do it. I've checked the source, and I saw that the Lua interface already got a replacement node list, however I don't think that would be the right place for this (as that's a user provided replacement list). I guess it would be better to subsitute biome specific nodes with the actual biome property values in the schematic decorator class. In order to do that, I should add the biome pointer for the placement position to the schematic struct, so that that information could be accessed in the decorator class easily without consulting the map (also it would provide a better abstraction for testing). What is your thoughts? Is there a better way to get the biome for the position where the schematic is placed?

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bzt
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Hume2 » Sat Dec 21, 2019 08:20

Wuzzy wrote:Minetest is still missing a pointless height restriction of 256 blocks. :D

But something tells me that chances for it being implemented are rather slim …

PS: Yes, I agree this thread has gone out of control, and I don't really take it seriously. xD

We also need to remove Herobrine :D
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Re: wHaT's MiNeTeSt StiLl MiSsInG oVeR MiNeCrAfT?

by Wuzzy » Sun Dec 22, 2019 02:27

bUt HaViNg A sInGlE hAnD iS wHaT mAkEs MiNeTeSt UnIqUe!!!11
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Re: wHaT's MiNeTeSt StiLl MiSsInG oVeR MiNeCrAfT?

by Linuxdirk » Sun Dec 22, 2019 02:56

Wuzzy wrote:bUt HaViNg A sInGlE hAnD iS wHaT mAkEs MiNeTeSt UnIqUe!!!11

So does nodes and water can’t be in the same place at the same time.
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Wuzzy » Thu Dec 26, 2019 22:40

Actually, we once had Hungry Games servers, but they seemed to have disappered, sadly. :(

But different minigames became popular: Mese Wars, Hide&Seek.
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Khyrberos » Sun Dec 29, 2019 05:07

A very interesting topic. Haven't read all 39 pages, but even with my limited experience (& my self-stated excitement for playing/modding Minetest), I have to admit I noticed similar things as OP has.

It's strange to think that it might indeed be as simple as the Presentation (i.e. visual & audio effects). I wonder.
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Hume2 » Sun Dec 29, 2019 12:22

Also rewrite whole Minetest into Java :D
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by rubenwardy » Mon Dec 30, 2019 13:39

Wuzzy wrote:
But different minigames became popular: Mese Wars, Hide&Seek.


CTF rose in popularity at the same time that hungry games declined
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by kuboid » Mon Feb 24, 2020 15:15

Graphics are secondary. Sound matters. For example, I have been playing a lot of Repixture (nice one!) lately.

Con (lack of atmosphere):
No background music! Best would be music matching the daytime, biome and danger situation. The music in MC adds a lot to atmosphere. Have you ever played Wing Commander 1 and 2? The music in 2 was much thinner, which removed a lot of the great atmosphere of WC1, the music adapted to the current level of danger. It was like being part of a good movie.

Pro (adding to atmosphere):
the background sounds are sooo great in Repixture! When you walk through the wood and hear imaginary birds tweet, _this_ adds atmosphere! Or the frogs at night! Even better would be some small decoration mobs. Insects, birds, rats, you name it. Maybe there is a good mod which matches the style of Repixture.

Otherwise I agree to the consistency problem. Mobs often look like from a wrong world, or act stupid. E.g. in MC, hostile mobs will stop hunting you when you hide in a house. Or will seek shadow when the sun comes out. Villagers will flee dangers, what gives a realistic impression.

Good physics are also important. Much more important than shiny graphics. This is what makes Half-Life 2 still a great game, besides being 15(!) years old and running smoothly on shitty graphics boards (from today's perspective).
In MT, blocks that fall if not connected to structures would add a lot of realism and atmosphere I'd say. Yes I know that this could cause chain reactions that kill your CPU. But I also think this can be dealt with.
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Linuxdirk » Mon Feb 24, 2020 18:25

kuboid wrote:When you walk through the wood and hear imaginary birds tweet, _this_ adds atmosphere!

There are mods doing this. The problem I have with all of them: This is too sudden. If you climb a mountain at some point it goes from complete silence to a howling storm that blast away your speakers. Or ambiance sounds in caves. They mostly not feel like coming from deeper in the cave but instead screaming right into your ears.

Same with most music mods. It starts too loud and the music is too much in the foreground (also it causes trouble on YouTube even if free music was used – been there, done that … twice).
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by FaceDeer » Mon Feb 24, 2020 20:18

kuboid wrote:Graphics are secondary. Sound matters.


I was thinking about this the other day, wanting to add some background sounds to a mapgen mod I'm developing, and remembered that the default game has flowing water sounds now. So I went to see how it does that.

There's a simple little mod, env_sounds, responsible for that. I've done some work trying to generalize it with an API that would allow other nodes to be added as sound sources. I think this would add a lot of life to the world, but I'm not sure whether the approach env_sounds takes will scale well to dozens or even hundreds of sound types.
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Khyrberos » Mon Feb 24, 2020 21:18

I think this could be a big thing to help Minetest out.
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by FaceDeer » Tue Feb 25, 2020 02:52

If you want to play around with my efforts at creating an env_sound API, my fork-in-progress is here and the quick-and-dirty test mod I've been testing it with is here, called "ambient_test". If you try this with the existing minetest_game you'll need to remove its env_sound mod, the names currently conflict (ideally I'll submit it back to minetest_game, if it's accepted).

The way the mod works is that it regularly "pings" the local surroundings of the player looking for specific types of nodes. If it finds the nodes, and if various other conditions are met, it will play a sound originating from the average location of the nodes and with a sound that may be adjusted based on the number of nodes. There's a lot of parameters you can tweak for different kinds of ambient noises.

So for example:

I've set up a quiet, cold and spooky wind sound that plays when it's night time and you're near lots of snow. A couple of snow blocks won't do, you need to be near a bunch of them.

I've got a cardinal birdsong chirp that plays in leaves that are near soil during the day, and an owl hoot that plays in leaves near soil during the night. Not the most sophisticated forest-detection mechanism but I'm trying to keep the CPU burden under control by not getting too fancy. This one doesn't use the average position of the nodes, it plays from a random nearby leaf node location.

There's a "waves breaking on the beach" that plays when you're near at least 64 water source nodes, at an elevation between -4 and 8, and near at least one sand node. That seems pretty good at keeping it beach-specific.

There's a boiling lava rumble that plays whenever you're near lava, with an intensity varying based on the amount of lava. Nice and creepy when you're digging through rock and start hearing that.

Those are just what I've thrown together to test out various scenarios, it's not a comprehensive soundscape yet. Eventually someday.
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Khyrberos » Tue Feb 25, 2020 03:40

Sounds like an excellent start (ingenious method for detecting forests btw). I don't know when I'll get a chance to check it out, but I'll do what I can. : )

One thought that came to mind (& perhaps this lends itself to a different discussion vis-a-vis mod interactions): I'm all for the purely environmental stuff (lava, beach, snowscape, etc), but if one was also implementing a "critter" mod (i.e. minor non-hostile creatures), wouldn't it make more sense to have the sound emanate from them (e.g. an owl & a bird)? Or could both coexist?
(I guess it gets tough because it's like "sure that would make more sense but I'm not making a critter mod & can't expect one to exist"... Hm.)
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by FaceDeer » Tue Feb 25, 2020 03:59

Khyrberos wrote:I'm all for the purely environmental stuff (lava, beach, snowscape, etc), but if one was also implementing a "critter" mod (i.e. minor non-hostile creatures), wouldn't it make more sense to have the sound emanate from them (e.g. an owl & a bird)? Or could both coexist?
(I guess it gets tough because it's like "sure that would make more sense but I'm not making a critter mod & can't expect one to exist"... Hm.)


There's usually multiple different ways to solve any given problem, yeah. :)

I would imagine if you had a critter mod that actually put little birdie entities flittering around in the forest emitting their own chirps you'd want to disable the ambient birdsong sounds coming from a simple mod like env_sounds. Same as the case where someone made a mod that created actual rolling-wave entities sliding across the ocean surface and crashing into the shore. The thing is, all those things sound like they'd be really hard and complicated to program, and I (as with most programmers) am fundamentally lazy. That's why we chose a career that consists entirely of telling computers to do all the hard work for us.

It's pretty easy to pop over to freesound.org, find a nice clip of someone throwing up, and then bang out a quick env_sounds.register_sound() definition to make that sound play whenever the player is near a bunch of "vomiting_tree:trunk" nodes. It's way more complicated to make the trees actually throw up whenever the player is nearby, so as long as the sound is good enough, why not just do that?

(Disclaimer: I am not planning to work on a "vomiting_tree" mod. I have no idea why that was the hypothetical example that popped to mind).

ambient_test is just a bunch of test cases at the moment, but if I were to flesh it out into a full soundscape someday I'd probably litter it with minetest.settings checks to allow server admins to easily enable and disable various sounds to suit their particular games.
 

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