[Game] MineClone 2 [0.66.2]

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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.54.0]

by Wuzzy » Post

Hey,
I don't think 1.11 should be the benchmark. By doing that you are missing the opportunity of later patches. For example, staircases are being made out of different materials recently in Mcraft, but doing them like 1.11 will amke you leave the other types out. May as well do the lot at once.
The reason I picked 1.11 was simply because it was the latest version when I started, and that I wanted to have some cut-off point. Otherwise, I would be forever chasing a moving target and I also don't want this project to drag on forever. I want to have a fixed goal, not a moving target.

Besides, many of the essential features, like enchanting, status effects or the redstone basics are lacking or missing. And mobs are still really horrible. So these things have a much higher priority right now. Note that the 1.11 limit is not religiously followed. Very easy improvements, low-hanging fruit such as stairs have a good chance to be included anyway.

MCL2 already has many many stairs, and I believe it includes all stairs in latest MC, and then some more. In fact, MCL2 had the missing stairs much earlier than MC did. :-)

A quick rundown on MC versions:
1.11: The current “official” target for MCL2.
1.12: I think I already "sneakingly" included most of the MC 1.12 features as it was mostly color nodes and variants of existing things. A lot of no-brainers in there. It was probably the easiest update to follow. :-)
1.13: MC version 1.13 is undoubtedly the most exciting of the latest releases, as it decorates the Sea, so this is a very obvious and much needed addition. But it might need a lot of work and I won't touch it until everything else is reasonably stable. But I definitely want to decorate the sea … eventually.
1.14: Sorry, I'm not a huge fan of MC version 1.14. There's a lot of questionable blocks that just add complexity but don't really add any important gameplay. As I understand, most of it is to add flavor to villages. Super-low priority IMO. Some of the crafting stations seem kind of useful, but others are pretty questionable and don't seem to be useful that much compared to what MC had before. For example, the new furnace clones cook things faster, but the same can be achieved by just having lots of furnaces. Seems pretty pointless. The most useful addition seems to be the loom as it greatly simplifies banner crafting, which is really a PITA ATM. The scaffolding also seems nice. Some things are nice-to-have items, but really I don't consider them important. The new decorative blocks: I don't know, they don't seem to follow the simplistic style anymore. I really really hate the campfire for some reason.
I have the impression the MC team is slowly running out of ideas. It really shows that Notch stepped down.

Another problem with chasing later MC updates is textures. Pixel Perfection is still stuck in 1.11, although XSSheep has again and again promised a release …

It's very possible this project will take a different path, as compared to MC, because I don't really like the direction that MC has taken lately. I have long given up for making a (mostly) exact clone anyway, that would probably require a different engine anyway …



EDIT: In case you missed it: Version 0.54.0 was released (see previous post)!
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Re: Version 0.54.0 released!

by avocamentum » Post

Wuzzy wrote:Version 0.54.0 released! Nicknamed “The Return of the Fishing Rod”.
Thanks for so many good fixes.

My family is enjoying the game, but sometimes we get stuck in survival. Is there a "guide to build everything", and if not would it be useful? (if it's in this thread, forgive me, we missed it!) I think we could manage with a sequence tree or recommended list to unlock recipies, but at times a few helpful hints such as depth or vacinity to find ores or advice to find spawners / temples / mineshafts would be helpful

cheers

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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.54.0]

by TGS » Post

Hey Wuzzy, I just re-found Minetest after many years kind of forgetting it existed and so far this/your game is by far the best one, so I just wanted to say right off the bat that I very much appreciate the work on it.

However there are two feature suggestions I would make which of course you can ignore completely if you wish because it would likely fit outside the purview of your intended release aim (1.11)

First one, distance based nametags (Like in Minecraft) that can further be reduced by sneaking. Not sure how difficult that would be in terms of it being potentially hardcoded into the engine but it is the first thing that came to me because I remember years ago having fond memories of light-hearted PvP with friends and sneaking up on them and the main thing with it was that sneaking was actually useful for sneaking because of the effect on the nametag.

Especially in the form of graying it out if you were looking at them in open LOS and being completely hidden when out of line of sight. (Behind blocks or whatever)

The second thing is what would likely fall well out of scope and that is scaffolding. Especially if similar to in Minecraft where you can one punch it and it'll all drop down on you. They are immensely useful in survival. (without fly of course)

Anyway, thanks again for the amazing mod.

Oh and one thing I nearly forgot that I noticed, which might also be an engine issue. Hostile mobs appear to be able to see you through nodes. The first time I was playing it the other day night had come and I was sitting in my house and I could hear the mobs outside and a skeleton was shooting at me, most of his shots didn't hit but occasionally one would literally penetrate the wall of the house and hit me. Despite the fact that not only should they not have been able to penetrate the walls, it shouldn't have even known I was there.

Again though, I'm not sure if this is an engine issue or a MineClone issue.

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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.54.0]

by bzt » Post

Hi

First I'd like to say a big thanks for this awesome subgame! It's an absolute favourite of my boy! You don't know how happy it made him!!!

I have some question though, not sure if it's just a mapgen issue or something else. I'm familiar with Lua, so just tell me what to modify or what to test or debug, and I'll will. I've tried many different seeds, but I always run into these problems:

- first, I always got forest like biomes only. Sometimes I got small iceland too, but that's all. No matter how far I wonder, all I see is trees. There are different woods, but essentially just forest. Sometimes there are smaller and bigger lakes, but that's all the diversity I got.
- in general, the overworlds are booooring, trees and trees and trees, nothing else. Although with one world I've found an empty iglu village once (no npcs).
- no villages or other structures. Although I can see the Lua module that should generate villages and trader villagers, I haven't found any in the game, ever. Only monsters and other usual mobs. No npcs to trade with.
- generated many worlds with different seeds, but no swamps or deserts ever, and I found only one witch hut in only one world once. I think there should be a lot more, isn't that right?
- on the other hand, caves are pretty awesome, I've found many interesting things, including zombie dwellings and spider nests as well as abadoned mines (these are really cool)

Is there some good seeds I'm unaware of that would solve these problems by generating more biomes? What mapgen would you recommend? I like carpathian the most, as it's generating really great landscapes, only if there where more biomes!

I've tried MineTest Game, with mods there I can generate interesting worlds with lots of diverse biomes using the exact same seed and carpathian mapgen. Unfortunately caves there are boring, abadoned mines are completely missing nor can I add MCL mobs, as mobs_mc depends on mcl_core, which seems to have a conflict with the default mod. Is there a Minetest Game compatible version of these mods perhaps?

Just a sidenote, how difficult would it be to rename mcl_core to default and provide the minimal API so that one could add standard minetest mods to MineClone2? Or use the MCL2 mods (like the mines and mobs) with the standard Minetest Game?

Thanks,
bzt

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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.54.0]

by Wuzzy » Post

First one, distance based nametags (Like in Minecraft) that can further be reduced by sneaking. Not sure how difficult that would be in terms of it being potentially hardcoded into the engine but it is the first thing that came to me because I remember years ago having fond memories of light-hearted PvP with friends and sneaking up on them and the main thing with it was that sneaking was actually useful for sneaking because of the effect on the nametag.
Yes.
- first, I always got forest like biomes only. Sometimes I got small iceland too, but that's all. No matter how far I wonder, all I see is trees.
That's very weird. Maybe you just got unlucky. MCL2 has lots of biomes, actually. About 32 core biomes in the Overworld. And more than just forests.

Did you maybe mess around with the mapgen settings? Like temperature and humidity noises?
- no villages or other structures. Although I can see the Lua module that should generate villages and trader villagers, I haven't found any in the game, ever. Only monsters and other usual mobs. No npcs to trade with.
Villagers do exist and can be traded with, but they are currently unused. Villages are not functional yet and are therefore unused. The code that generates villages is mostly useless, it's basically always the same village that also only works on perfectly flat land, so it would often just lead to hilarious results. Mind you, MCL2 is still in alpha stage, this means, it's not finished. Missing features and bugs are to be expected.

Other structures definitely do exist. Just not all of MC yet.
Is there some good seeds I'm unaware of that would solve these problems by generating more biomes? What mapgen would you recommend? I like carpathian the most, as it's generating really great landscapes, only if there where more biomes!
The mapgen v6 has a reduced biomes set of 5 biomes, just like in MTG. The other mapgens use the full biomes. Otherwise, all mapgens should work fine in MCL2.
Just a sidenote, how difficult would it be to rename mcl_core to default and provide the minimal API so that one could add standard minetest mods to MineClone2? Or use the MCL2 mods (like the mines and mobs) with the standard Minetest Game?
Noooooo! Don't you dare to infest MCL2 with the default poison again! XD

There is a very good reason why there is no “default” mod.

Very early in MCL2 development, I spent quite some time building the basic mod architecture, and I split out many features into different mods to avoid the horrors that the default mod from MTG causes. The default mod is terrible because it throws in far too many different features into one giant beast of a mod. This makes dependency management terrible. I strongly recommend to all game developers to not have a giant super mod that has all the features, like the “default” mod, because it causes so many problems. Basically, it's dependency hell. You want sounds for your nodes in MTG? Boom! You already depend on default, which includes sounds, all core nodes, books, chests, furnaces, and a lot of unrelated stuff. Only because you wanted sounds …

Besides, MCL2 already has its own mines and mobs. And there's an API for mobs. Actually, MCL2 mods do support many APIs to add more stuff, just like MTG.

Also, MCL2 and MTG are both very different games which are pretty much incompatible. Trying to make them compatible doesn't really make a lot of sense. However, there are still mods out there which try to be compatible with both (a drawers mod, for example). These mods do this by simply optionally depending on both and change behaviour accordingly. This works, but the downside is that you have to essentially double your code size.
There's also mods for MTG that really only make sense in MTG and not anywhere else. It all depends. If you really want a mod be working in MCL2, request a mod maker to do one for you. We have a mod request thread.
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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.54.0]

by bzt » Post

Hi,

Thanks for the quick response!
Wuzzy wrote:That's very weird. Maybe you just got unlucky. MCL2 has lots of biomes, actually. About 32 core biomes in the Overworld. And more than just forests.
I definitely don't have that many. 2 or maybe 3 tops.
Wuzzy wrote:Did you maybe mess around with the mapgen settings? Like temperature and humidity noises?
Nope, I have not. And I've updated MCL2 yesterday from inside the game just to be on the safe side. No modifications. MCL2 release 1938, engine Minetest 5.0.1.
Wuzzy wrote:Villagers do exist and can be traded with, but they are currently unused. Villages are not functional yet and are therefore unused. The code that generates villages is mostly useless, it's basically always the same village that also only works on perfectly flat land, so it would often just lead to hilarious results. Mind you, MCL2 is still in alpha stage, this means, it's not finished. Missing features and bugs are to be expected.
I wouldn't mind an alpha-stage village, but I have nothing for some reason :~(
Wuzzy wrote:Other structures definitely do exist. Just not all of MC yet.
Not for me :~( No temples, no strongholds, no witch huts, nothing. I can get a few iglos at best, nothing else overworld. Which is strange, because mines are generated fine.

Could you please share some seeds using v7 or carpathean mapgen with coordinates to some structures? I'd really like to verify if my machine really does not generate them, or is it just me flying in the generated worlds around for weeks now being extremely unlucky.

Oh, and I've just checked the nether, it's 1 block air in front and 1 block air in the back of the portal, but that's it. Everything else is just stone. Is this supposed to be like this (WIP or something)? Or is this an indication of mapgen failing?
Wuzzy wrote:The mapgen v6 has a reduced biomes set of 5 biomes, just like in MTG. The other mapgens use the full biomes. Otherwise, all mapgens should work fine in MCL2.
That's what I have thought, thanks. I've tried v6, v7, valleys and carpathean. No swamps, no deserts, no mushroom trees etc. Same mapgen with Minetest game generates banana and orange trees, beaches, huge pine trees, garden of cherry trees, cactuses etc.
Wuzzy wrote:Noooooo! Don't you dare to infest MCL2 with the default poison again! XD

There is a very good reason why there is no “default” mod.
Oh, sorry, I didn't mean. I just thought it would be great if I could add the underworld mods from MCL2 to MTG, or use the MTG's biome_lib mod under MCL2.

You see, MCL2 is great in caves (really awesome, interesting caveties, old mines etc.), but without villages or strongholds on the surface it gets boring quickly. MTG is quite the opposite, it has great and beautiful, interesting overworld, but extremely boring caves, and there's the lack of the MCL2 mobs...

So I have two half-games so to speak :-)
Wuzzy wrote:Very early in MCL2 development, I spent quite some time building the basic mod architecture, and I split out many features into different mods to avoid the horrors that the default mod from MTG causes. The default mod is terrible because it throws in far too many different features into one giant beast of a mod. This makes dependency management terrible.
That I can perfectly understand. When I first installed Minetest, it took me about 5 minutes to create an infinite module dependency loop... (If I remember well, it was an mg - moretrees - moreblocks - moreores circular reference or something).

I'd rather fix Mineclone2 mapgen than messing around with mods in Minetest Game to get the Minecraft feeling.

Thanks,
bzt

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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.54.0]

by Wuzzy » Post

but I have nothing for some reason :~(
As I have said, villages and villagers are unused. I have written some code for them, but that's it. These things don't actually appear in the world yet. This is expected.
MCL2 release 1938
There is no release 1938.
it would be great if I could add the underworld mods from MCL2 to MTG
MCL2 does not have an “underworld” mod …
MTG's biome_lib mod
MTG does not have a biome_lib mod … WTF?
Same mapgen with Minetest game generates banana and orange trees, beaches, huge pine trees, garden of cherry trees, cactuses etc.
Minetest Game does not have banana trees, orange trees or cherry trees. Ummm … lolwut?

I start to think someone must have betrayed you. You seem to have a fake Minetest Game and a fake MineClone 2 installed. Strange. Care to share a screenshot?

As you have requested now the second time, here I have a screenshot for you with coords and seed in screenshot:
https://satoshiupload.com/images/tKHMwn8z4d.png
mapgen = v7
MCL2 version = 0.54.0
MT version = 5.0.1
Seed/coords = (see screenshot)

Where did you download MT? Where did you download MTG? And MCL2? I really would like to see these links.
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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.54.0]

by bzt » Post

Wuzzy wrote:As I have said, villages and villagers are unused. I have written some code for them, but that's it. These things don't actually appear in the world yet. This is expected.
I see, thanks. Can I help to make villages and trader mobs happen? I know Lua, but I'm unfamiliar with the Minetest API and MCL2 internals.
Wuzzy wrote:There is no release 1938.
That's most definitely what minetest/games/mineclone2/game.conf says:
name = MineClone 2
description = A survival sandbox game. Survive, gather, hunt, build, explore, and do much more.
author = Wuzzy
release = 1938
I've downloaded the mod from within the game. README.md says version 0.54.0
Wuzzy wrote:MCL2 does not have an “underworld” mod …
Sure, I was inaccurate. I meant beneath the surface structures, e.g. caves, dungeons, abadoned mines etc.
Wuzzy wrote:MTG does not have a biome_lib mod … WTF?
Minetest Game does not have banana trees, orange trees or cherry trees. Ummm … lolwut?
Yes it does, and it's pretty awesome btw.
Wuzzy wrote:I start to think someone must have betrayed you. You seem to have a fake Minetest Game and a fake MineClone 2 installed. Strange. Care to share a screenshot?
Of course, here you go. I've selected "Minetest Game" from the game menu, and enabled some mods, listed on the screenshot.
Wuzzy wrote:As you have requested now the second time, here I have a screenshot for you with coords and seed in screenshot:
https://satoshiupload.com/images/tKHMwn8z4d.png
mapgen = v7
MCL2 version = 0.54.0
MT version = 5.0.1
Seed/coords = (see screenshot)
Thank you, but all I see on the screenshot is a small island with trees. By structures I meant houses or buildings, like desert temple, witch hut etc. Maybe you accidentally replaced the image? Can you attach it here, please?
Wuzzy wrote:Where did you download MT? Where did you download MTG? And MCL2? I really would like to see these links.
I've downloaded both within the game. "Content" / "Browse online contents" / "Install". The Minetest engine is from the default Arch Linux repo community/minetest 5.0.1-1, I haven't compiled it from source (yet).

Hmm, I was thinking. Although moretrees (the most possible source of the trees) mod failed because of circular dependencies, and I've removed it, could it be that it left some files which caused MTG to generate those trees?

Unrelated, but do you see on the minimaps how diverse the biomes are? That's what I want to achieve with MCL2, I don't care if there are less kinds of trees. I'm hunting more biomes and structures because my boy's birthday is coming closer... :-)

Cheers,
bzt
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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.54.0]

by bzt » Post

Hi,

I hope this helps. I've created the same world (carpathian, seed 1634) in MCL2 and made screenshots at the same coordinates. You can see on the minimaps, how forest overdominates almost everything. On the first screen you can see snow plane (boring emptiness, nothing on it), but the other two has just the same trees where MTG has 3 different biomes at least. What could cause this?

Please let me know how I can help you to make MCL2 better. I think this is by far the best subgame, only if the mapgen were okay... I'm sure MCL2 could have the same diversity as MTG, that shouldn't be a problem! It must be something trivial I miss.

Cheers,
bzt
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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.54.0]

by Wuzzy » Post

No, MTG absolutely, positively does !!!NOT!!! include banana trees, cherry trees or orange trees. It also never ever had a mod called “biome_lib”. I am 100% absolutely sure. I follow MTG development from time to time, so I know what is, and what is not part of MTG. I have also been an editor for years on the wiki regarding MTG content, so I should really know what I talking about! I would be damned if I didn't know what MTG is. If you still doubt me, please have a look:

https://wiki.minetest.net/Biomes <<< MTG biomes (note the lack of banana trees)
https://wiki.minetest.net/Blocks <<< MTG blocks (still no bananas)
https://wiki.minetest.net/Items <<< MTG items (did I say “no bananas”?)

These lists are comprehensive for v5.0.1. If it isn't on one of these pages, it does not exist in MTG. If you STILL do not believe me, have fun browsing the official source code for MTG here: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/
I wish you best of luck for finding the non-existing banana tree! ;-D

Based on your screenshots, I now know you indeed do have MTG installed, but with billions of mods. Dude! That's not what I meant. The mod list in your screenshot alone is gigantic. MTG only has a few mods included. Did you install these mods yourself or where did they come from? Anyway, it's clearly not a fair comparison.

Also, you seem to use the correct version of MCL2 indeed. The biomes seem to match. But your textures are looking like the textures from a year ago … Do you have any texture pack activated?

Trees in MCL2 actually don't bear fruit with the exception of jungle trees which bear cocoas sometimes. Apples drop occassional from oak tree leaves. The downside of fruit-bearing trees is that it's far too easy to obtain food. So it's not like there's no reason for that.

Even your screenshots show that MCL2 has clearly more than just 1 biome. The biomes you have shown are: Birch Forest, Flower Forest, Ice Plains. That's only 3 biomes from ca. 32. So apparently you just got very very unlucky so far. I assure you, there are more than just forest-only biomes. Explore!
I consider the biomes to be finished, apart from minor detals. You don't know how shellshocked I am right now, after realizing you really had the correct game and really saw the actual biomes. Ouch, this hurts. :( I hope you will eventually discover the other biomes one day.
MCL2 biomes are closely modeled after Minecraft's biomes and I think it already comes pretty close. Some biomes, like Mesa Bryce, are very hard to replicate in Minetest while others are fairly easy. MCL2 is still, at heart, an MC clone. So the MCL2 biomes are mostly going to stay. The biggest lack in biomes IMO is underwater. There's currently just water and nothing else.

I do agree about lack of overworld structures, however. Villages are obviously the biggest missing one.

Since you offered your help: Here's a link for you:
https://git.minetest.land/Wuzzy/MineClo ... labels=142

This contains all bug reports / feature requests with the “help wanted” label. Pick whatever you like.
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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.54.0]

by excavenger » Post

Before I say anything else, let me tell you that I'm really enjoying messing around in MC2 and the work you're doing with it is phenomenal. Can't say I haven't encountered bugs or things to be fixed but even with them the experience so far has been enjoyable.

Now, I'll be honest, I couldn't figure out how to use the site to report such bugs (I'm not a forum person) so I'll tell you here about the issues I've encountered so far (current version 0.54.0). I am aware of the possibility that some of these (if not all) issues have been reported already; but at least I want to rest easy knowing that someone did.

- Bouncy water!: All mobs (both hostile and passive) seem to have enhanced jumping while standing on water, instead of it being restrained until next to a climbable block. Sometimes you'll be able to see monsters and animals bouncing to the sky on the horizon, and eventually jump over your double fences.

- "You thought that would stop me?": Most mobs are able to get over both fences and walls, somehow. In occasions, even the player. But specially horses and creepers. And yes, they do get past double fences and double walls. Also hostiles (haven't noticed this on the passives) shouldn't have a 3-block jump distance, only 1. Ever seen a kamikaze Creeper?

- Pool party for all: Since sunlight deals fire damage to zombies and skeletons, these shouldn't be affected by it when standing on water. But they do. They just wanted a swim.

- That's a lotta nuts!: Passive mobs either spawn too often or their packs are too big. Or both. Eventually invading your personal space, your house, and hurting performance. They'll also spawn in top of trees or in your 12-block tall house's roof, for some reason.

- You really shouldn't be here: Endermen spawn too often. They should be a rare sight, found more often in large plains, like in the desert- but you'll be seeing a lot of them messing up your lawn in the woods. Or anywhere for that matter. There is no escape.

- The hills have eyes: Mobs are always aware of you, even if you're inside your house. Don't put your bed too close to the wall or at a height of less than 5-6 blocks, because you will be blown up in your sleep. You won't be safe from skeletons either, it's safer to run for the hills to drop aggro than staying caged inside, since they can both see you and shoot you trough walls. And be sure to place glass windows next to the door because they'll always be there waiting for you.

- Suicide is not a joke: While the hostile mobs will travel long distances just to reach your house and kill you, passive mobs will instead be lured to the water and drown themselves. All the time. So don't get attached. Since they can jump over all of the fences and all the king's men they WILL get to that water. Even that one-block of water you use for your farm.

- "And they said I was fat": Small mobs (dogs, pigs, spiders, rabbits, chickens) can't be stopped by your doors, human. All your base belongs to them. They seem to clip trough bit by bit; trough doors, fence gates, fences and walls. Also creepers sometimes will jump trough that 1 block gap you have in the middle of the wall for a window. Houdini would be impressed.

- Climate change is also not a joke: Spontaneous forest fires will happen all the time. And they spread fast. It doesn't matter how many water buckets you throw at it. There is always more. And at this point you can either A) run to another biome and start a new life until the fire catches up, or B) give up on that game and start a new one, because lag is very much a thing and it's written in flames.

::::The following section includes just a couple of things that should be in the game but they're either planned for later or they've been overlooked (the latter I don't think so), in any case I'm sure you know them so I'll be short:

- There are no strings on me: The elements to make a lead or leash are there (4 string and one slime ball) but neither the recipe or the item seem to exist. No walking your dog for you.

- Tactical disadvantage: Same as the last one, but shields. I hope you like arrows.

- I'm on a diet: I'm no vegan but I'm pretty sure that punching grass should give you more of a variety of seeds than just wheat. Occasionally you can find pumpkins, melons and sugar cane growing around, but that's about it. So hem seeds, no grass seeds, no corn, no carrots. (I think I found one single carrot that one single time I found a mine shaft, but I haven't encountered any more of either)


....aaaaaaand that's it, I think. I know that some other features like experience, enchanting, and villages are still being worked on, so I understand the absence of items related to them (the ones I know are related to them). Sorry for the long drag, tried to make it not-as-boring-to-read at least, although I don't think I succeeded.
In any case, I'll be looking forward to the following updates, and keep up the good work!!! :D

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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.54.0]

by bzt » Post

Wuzzy wrote:No, MTG absolutely, positively does !!!NOT!!! include banana trees, cherry trees or orange trees. It also never ever had a mod called “biome_lib”.
It's not that I don't believe you, it's just what I see has "biome_lib" and more trees :-) But let's forget about the trees. Let's talk about how come that MTG has a lot more biomes in a single minimap. Is there a parameter to set the average size of each biome? It would be great if I could decrease that a little.
Wuzzy wrote:Based on your screenshots, I now know you indeed do have MTG installed, but with billions of mods. Dude! That's not what I meant. The mod list in your screenshot alone is gigantic. MTG only has a few mods included. Did you install these mods yourself or where did they come from? Anyway, it's clearly not a fair comparison.
Yes, I installed them. Before I found MCL2, I've tried many mods to "upgrade" MTG to be a playable, enjoyable MC-like game. Not much luck with that (except for the diverse biomes) it sucks really badly. I never could make it so MC-like as MCL2, not by a long shot.
Wuzzy wrote:Also, you seem to use the correct version of MCL2 indeed. The biomes seem to match. But your textures are looking like the textures from a year ago … Do you have any texture pack activated?
Again, correct, my boy told me that it doesn't look like the real Minecraft so I've downloaded a texture pack in which ores are stripes on the stone. (I personally like MCL2 textures better.)
Wuzzy wrote:Trees in MCL2 actually don't bear fruit with the exception of jungle trees which bear cocoas sometimes. Apples drop occassional from oak tree leaves. The downside of fruit-bearing trees is that it's far too easy to obtain food. So it's not like there's no reason for that.
That's okay and perfectly understandable. I'm not after the trees btw, I'm more interested in that I could take a screenshot with 3-4 different biomes on it easily.
Wuzzy wrote:Even your screenshots show that MCL2 has clearly more than just 1 biome. The biomes you have shown are: Birch Forest, Flower Forest, Ice Plains. That's only 3 biomes from ca. 32.
Exactly. Same screenshots from MTG (modded) shows at least 12 biomes on the same coordinates, while MCL2 has 3 in total.
Wuzzy wrote:So apparently you just got very very unlucky so far. I assure you, there are more than just forest-only biomes. Explore!
I think size of the biomes are too large. Is there a way to make smaller biomes? (So that there would be more different biomes in the same map area)
Wuzzy wrote:I consider the biomes to be finished, apart from minor detals. You don't know how shellshocked I am right now, after realizing you really had the correct game and really saw the actual biomes. Ouch, this hurts. :( I hope you will eventually discover the other biomes one day.
Actually I have found a great mod which works with MCL2 too. It's called findbiome, and adds two commands: /listbiomes and /findbiome (biome), the latter teleports you to the nearest biome of the given kind. It was written by somebody called Wuzzy, do you know the guy? :-D
Wuzzy wrote:MCL2 biomes are closely modeled after Minecraft's biomes and I think it already comes pretty close. Some biomes, like Mesa Bryce, are very hard to replicate in Minetest while others are fairly easy. MCL2 is still, at heart, an MC clone. So the MCL2 biomes are mostly going to stay. The biggest lack in biomes IMO is underwater. There's currently just water and nothing else.
Since the O2 is limited anyway, I don't think this is a problem for now. I'm not sure how the real Minecraft goes on this, I've seen scubbagear mods but that just doesn't seem right. I think biomes are awesome, only if they were smaller and had more structures.
Wuzzy wrote:I do agree about lack of overworld structures, however. Villages are obviously the biggest missing one.
What about the rest? With the /spawnstruct command I can create them, they look great, but I can't find any automatically generated (or they are extremely rare) except for the minshafts and dungeons. I can't spawn the latter two, but that's okay as they are generated in sufficient quantity. I mean I have to wander a lot, but nonetheless I'm able to find them.
Wuzzy wrote:Since you offered your help: Here's a link for you:
https://git.minetest.land/Wuzzy/MineClo ... labels=142

This contains all bug reports / feature requests with the “help wanted” label. Pick whatever you like.
Sure, but first I'd like to focus on fixing these: smaller biomes (aka more biomes per area) and more structs on the surface. My boy misses these two the most. Otherwise he says this is the best MC clone ever, and I have to agree :-)

Just an idea, have you ever thought of a "difficulty" level? I know it's not in Minecraft 1.11, but I have a smaller boy too (7 years old) and he could use an easier beginner gameplay. Nothing big, just simple tweaks: more health (or less damage), bigger ore clusters and bigger chance of loots, smaller chance of spawning hostile mobs. That's all. Just scaling of a few already existing parameters. Smaller biomes and more structs could be part of this easier mode.

Thanks,
bzt

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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.54.0]

by Wuzzy » Post

About biome size: You can actually alter it by using the All Settings menu in Minetest. Go to:

All Settings → Map generator → Biome API temperature and humidity settings.

And edit “heat noise” and “humidity noise” (technical setting names: “mg_biome_np_heat” and “mg_biome_np_humidity”).

To make the biomes smaller, make the values in “X spread” and “Z spread” for both settings smaller. You need to experiment a bit to find a suitable value. Use the same value in each field to avoid weird stretching.

From now on, all new worlds you create will use these biome settings. Already existing worlds are not affected. By the way, this is true for all map generator settings in Minetest.

Note that because this is a Minetest setting, not a MineClone 2 setting, this will affect the biome size of ALL games. But you can always reset to default if something goes wrong.

These settings don't work in the v6 mapgen. For the v6 mapgen, you need to edit the settings “mgv6_np_biome” and “mgv6_np_humidity” instead.

Ooff, that's quite complicated to change the biome size, isn't it? :D
Minetest really should make mapgen settings more accessible. The mapgen settings in Minetest are actually quite amazing, it's just VERY hard for people to create interesting maps with them. Maybe, one day, I should write a wiki article for players explaining what all these weird words like “noise”, “Perlin”, “lacunarity” or “octaves” mean and how to use it to your advantage. :-)

-------

A difficulty setting is more work than you think. Everything has to be balanced with everything. I just don't want to do a few little tweaks that are poorly balanced. Also, I need to touch a LOT of code, much more than you already mentioned. It's not exactly hard, just a lot of work. This feature is planned, but not for now. Sorry.
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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.54.0]

by bzt » Post

Wuzzy wrote:About biome size: You can actually alter it by using the All Settings menu in Minetest. Go to:

All Settings → Map generator → Biome API temperature and humidity settings.

And edit “heat noise” and “humidity noise” (technical setting names: “mg_biome_np_heat” and “mg_biome_np_humidity”).

To make the biomes smaller, make the values in “X spread” and “Z spread” for both settings smaller. You need to experiment a bit to find a suitable value. Use the same value in each field to avoid weird stretching.
Awesome, thanks man! I'll play around with these a bit!

Now there's only one thing left, how to increase the number of generated surface structures. I mean I couldn't find a desert temple nor a wheel so far, and only one hut in total, although I'm putting a lot of hours in MCL2 lately. The same occurance as the underground dungeons would be nice (you can find a dungeon by playing ca. an hour or two).
Wuzzy wrote:From now on, all new worlds you create will use these biome settings. Already existing worlds are not affected. By the way, this is true for all map generator settings in Minetest.

Note that because this is a Minetest setting, not a MineClone 2 setting, this will affect the biome size of ALL games. But you can always reset to default if something goes wrong.
Okay, that's a bit drawback. I'm trying to find which mod modified X/Y/Z spread and how in MTG. Now that I know the technical name, shouldn't be a problem :-) Thanks!
Wuzzy wrote:These settings don't work in the v6 mapgen. For the v6 mapgen, you need to edit the settings “mgv6_np_biome” and “mgv6_np_humidity” instead.
I'm not using v6 as it's keep freezing anyway.
Wuzzy wrote:Ooff, that's quite complicated to change the biome size, isn't it? :D
Minetest really should make mapgen settings more accessible. The mapgen settings in Minetest are actually quite amazing, it's just VERY hard for people to create interesting maps with them. Maybe, one day, I should write a wiki article for players explaining what all these weird words like “noise”, “Perlin”, “lacunarity” or “octaves” mean and how to use it to your advantage. :-)
Agreed! Better UI would be nice (I also missed Fullscreen option), and I think that wiki page is a really great idea!
Wuzzy wrote:A difficulty setting is more work than you think. Everything has to be balanced with everything. I just don't want to do a few little tweaks that are poorly balanced. Also, I need to touch a LOT of code, much more than you already mentioned. It's not exactly hard, just a lot of work. This feature is planned, but not for now. Sorry.
Not hard really. I've played around a bit, changed the following in settings:

Code: Select all

enable_fire false
mcl_keepInvertory true
mobs_spawn_chance 5.0
mobs_griefing false
mob_difficulty 0.5
and in mods/MAPGEN/mcl_mapgen_core/init.lua, line 243 I've tried:

Code: Select all

--
-- Iron
--
minetest.register_ore({
	ore_type       = "blob",
--	ore_type       = "scatter",
	ore            = "mcl_core:stone_with_iron",
	wherein         = stonelike,
	clust_scarcity = 10*10*10,
	clust_num_ores = 58,
	clust_size     = 7,
--	clust_scarcity = 830,
--	clust_num_ores = 5,
--	clust_size     = 3,
	y_min          = mcl_vars.mg_overworld_min,
This did the trick. (Obviously those are extremely huge values, I've just copy'n'pasted one of the common block's cluster parameters to clearly see if this works. Probably 27/4). Same adjustments to all ores would be enough for a beginner mode, I don't think other modification needed.

---

Oh, and I think I accidentally may have found why the lightning is firing up the countryside: in mods/ENVIRONMENT/lightning/init.lua, line 215 in function lightning.strike, there's an unconditional

Code: Select all

minetest.set_node(pos2, { name = "mcl_fire:fire" })
I believe there should be an if protecting it, something like

Code: Select all

if minetest.settings:get_bool("enable_fire", true) and rng:next(1,100) < 33 then
    minetest.set_node(pos2, { name = "mcl_fire:fire" })
This would give only 33% chance of fire instead of the current 97% (3% chance of creating a skeleton).

Cheers,
bzt

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Version 0.54.1 released!

by Wuzzy » Post

Version 0.54.1 released!

Changelog:
  • Fix crash when fishing rod breaks
  • Add fish cooking achievement
  • Villagers may now sell fishing rods
  • Eat/drink sound effect is played at user instead of a fixed position
  • Valleys mapgen: Disable biome heat/humidity changes related to increased height and rivers by default
  • Mapgen v6: Witch huts now only generate in Normal biome (grassland/forest)
  • Prevent placement of some obscure nodes
I'm not using v6 as it's keep freezing anyway.
What do you mean with this?
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bzt
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Re: Version 0.54.1 released!

by bzt » Post

Wuzzy wrote:Version 0.54.1 released!
You are great! Thank you very much for all the work you put into this game! Although it may seem I'm unsatisfied with it, actually I think it's pretty amazing!
Wuzzy wrote:Villagers may now sell fishing rods
Does this mean there's a way to automatically spawn villiagers or we still have to spawn them via commands?
Wuzzy wrote:Valleys mapgen: Disable biome heat/humidity changes related to increased height and rivers by default
So valleys mapgen generates more diverse biomes? You are awesome, man! Thank you!
Wuzzy wrote:
I'm not using v6 as it's keep freezing anyway.
What do you mean with this?
If I move around in a world generated using v6, sometimes when I move to a new area, and new sectors starts to appear, the game freezes badly. I'm unable to use the X display, I can't switch to another screen. I can hardly switch to another (non-X) tty, and when I finally able to do so and run top, I can see that minetest is eating up all the CPUs, "load avg" is above the scale. When I signal minetest with a SIGKILL, then everything goes back to normal. If I restart the game, then it's working again for a while, then again, when a new sector is about to be generated, freezes. I'm not sure, but looks like this happens when a certain object (tree maybe?) is generated on that sector or when it has something that shares blocks with a neighboring sector maybe? Sometimes it does not freeze, but I get red messages on screen saying

Code: Select all

EmergeThread::finishGen: Couldn't grab block we just generated (x,z,y)
Not sure if error messages and freezes are connected though.
This never happens with valleys and carpathian mapgens for sure, and if I remember correctly didn't happen with v7 either (I haven't used that mapgen much because I like carpathian maps a lot more).

Any idea, how to increase the number of structures? Is there a way to list coordinates where they were generated?

Thanks,
bzt

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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.54.1]

by NoctisLabs » Post

I just wanted to post in here to thank you @Wuzzy for your work on this project, it's fantastic.

And sorry for the deluge of issues I've posted lately, I'm sure you already had plenty to do with a project this big! :)

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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.54.0]

by Robsoie » Post

A pity villages have problems and so aren't enabled, having more different stuff to see on the surface (and underground, i wish there were more underground structures) makes exploration more interesting.

About the biome size, to only affect a specific game, you should edit the minetest.conf file inside the mineclone2 folder and add

Code: Select all

mg_biome_np_heat = 50, 50, (1000, 1000, 1000), 5349, 3, 0.5, 2.0
mg_biome_np_humidity = 50, 50, (1000, 1000, 1000), 842, 3, 0.5, 2.0
mgv6_np_biome = 0, 1, (500, 500, 500), 9130, 3, 0.50, 2.0
mgv6_np_humidity = 0.5, 0.5, (500, 500, 500), 72384, 3, 0.50, 2.0
that are there with their default values (didn't expected the v7 default being that big, it would explain then why i always felt v7 less interesting than v6, biomes are just too big lessening the variety).
Then edit the numbers between the ( ) to get a size you want.

By example try with

Code: Select all

mg_biome_np_heat = 50, 50, (100, 100, 100), 5349, 3, 0.5, 2.0
mg_biome_np_humidity = 50, 50, (100, 100, 100), 842, 3, 0.5, 2.0
mgv6_np_biome = 0, 1, (100, 100, 100), 9130, 3, 0.50, 2.0
mgv6_np_humidity = 0.5, 0.5, (100, 100, 100), 72384, 3, 0.50, 2.0
that would get you mini biomes in v6 and v7
+ Spoiler
Doing that in the minetest.conf from the mineclone2 folder should allow you to only change those biomes sizing for mineclone 2 not for any other games you have on your minetest.

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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.54.0]

by bzt » Post

Robsoie wrote:A pity villages have problems and so aren't enabled, having more different stuff to see on the surface (and underground, i wish there were more underground structures) makes exploration more interesting.
Funny, I have the opposite problem: for me there are plenty of underground structures, but literally nothing on the surface. Would you mind to share some seeds? (Try carpathian mapgen with seed 1634 or 123456 there will be many abadoned mineshafts and quite a few dungeons with zombie or spider spawners inside. Also lots of interesting underground water and lava rivers down below surrounded by ores. I can get coords for you if you want.)
Robsoie wrote:About the biome size, to only affect a specific game, you should edit the minetest.conf file inside the mineclone2 folder and add
...
Doing that in the minetest.conf from the mineclone2 folder should allow you to only change those biomes sizing for mineclone 2 not for any other games you have on your minetest.
Thank you very much, this is just perfect! Exactly what I needed! I love it so much that you can tweak Minitest engine like this! Awesome, thanks again!

Cheers,
bzt
Last edited by bzt on Mon Sep 30, 2019 08:41, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.54.0]

by bzt » Post

Robsoie wrote:i wish there were more underground structures
Here you go, check out these (coords on screenshots)! I like specially the last one very much!
Attachments
mtscr06.png
Another mine above lava
(477.51 KiB) Not downloaded yet
mtscr07.png
Mineshaft
(409.14 KiB) Not downloaded yet
mtscr08.png
Mineshaft with lava lake and ores
(352.85 KiB) Not downloaded yet

bzt
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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.54.1]

by bzt » Post

More coords
Attachments
mtscr03.png
Spider invasion in the abadoned mine
(431.12 KiB) Not downloaded yet
mtscr04.png
Water, lava and dungeon walks into a bar
(334.9 KiB) Not downloaded yet
mtscr05.png
Dungeon with skeletons
(336.9 KiB) Not downloaded yet

bzt
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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.54.1]

by bzt » Post

And a few more
Attachments
mtscr01.png
Zombie dungeon
(283.06 KiB) Not downloaded yet
mtscr02.png
Lava lake with ores around
(275.75 KiB) Not downloaded yet

Robsoie
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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.54.1]

by Robsoie » Post

Thank you for the coordinates, i must have had very bad luck in my world (or maybe as i was not playing creative i wasn't digging on the correct directions , yeah bad luck :D )

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Repository migrated!

by Wuzzy » Post

The repository of MineClone 2 has been migrated!

Old repository: Somewhere on repo.or.cz
New repository: https://git.minetest.land/Wuzzy/MineClone2
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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.54.1]

by Sokomine » Post

Robsoie wrote: A pity villages have problems and so aren't enabled, having more different stuff to see on the surface (and underground, i wish there were more underground structures) makes exploration more interesting.
Servers sometimes place a village manually. Maikaumine used my mg_villages mod on his server and let some villagers spawn in there.

I personally find the villages in MC somewhat lacking. They did improve a bit with the recent versions, but before it was simplistic buildings, thrown together more or less randomly, with paths seldom working. My mg_villages mod creates pretty big villages. If you want something smaller, there are some mods that might fit: sociedades, settlements, huts, ..Maybe I'll extend basic_houses eventually to place such small settlements as well.

Regarding villagers...those bring a lot of life to the game. The ones in MC are often a bit too stupid. They do their utmost to be killed by hostile mobs. Caring for them, building homes, trading - all that can be a lot of fun, but even MC doesn't get it right - all is eventually in vain because villagers push each others from stairs, jump in front of hostile mobs, forget where their beds are, stand in the way and get hit by accident, ...

Yet I still wish for villagers to be around. Guess we'll eventually have to find a way for them to be there and enrich the game without killing immersion after a couple of seconds.
A list of my mods can be found here.

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