[Game] MineClone 2 [0.68.0]

cuthbertdoublebarrel
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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.66.1]

by cuthbertdoublebarrel » Post

kay27 wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 12:01
God sees
sorry no . that is a fairytale bieng .
nor do i find that you keep posting pics of your inventory at all helpful .it suggests you disbelieve that i have a graphic issue due to yours displaying correctly which is a ridculous notion.
Goats has supplied the explanation as why mc2 is failing to display correctly . i have now seen that the wildlife is still bouncing up and down in the water in mc2 . i know that issue has been fixed in crafter which was based off mc2 so hopefully both issues will be sorted in the future.
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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.66.1]

by Miniontoby » Post

plz add and left hand if possible only for shields, rockets, maps and torches (they give light surround you if you hold them in that hand)

and read my other post: viewtopic.php?p=375436#p375436
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bzt
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Re: License changed!

by bzt » Post

kay27 wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 12:31
Hi @bzt, I'd like to test your houses or maybe play with them, could you please share suitable mcl_structures/init.lua if you have it?
Nope, I don't have it as I haven't modified mcl_structures. Just create a "schems" folder under your world's directory, and copy the mts files there. Then I use my own mod to load schematics in-game, but you could just as well use Sokomine's Handle Schematics or Wuzzy's Schematic Editor. I prefer my mod for the following reasons:
1. it works with all games in all modes (MCL2, MTG, etc.)
2. it parses the contents of the "schems" folder, so just copy a new mts there and you can load it right away
3. once loaded with "/mtsedit load (something)", you can place a schematic multiple times just by clicking with the Wand, and it takes care of rotation and everything for you automagically.

What my mod can't do, is replacing nodes in the mts files. You can use my (out-game) editor for that, or use Handle Schematics mod. But this shouldn't be a problem as all the mts files contain MCL2 node names.

Cheers,
bzt

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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.66.1]

by LMD » Post

cuthbertdoublebarrel wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 10:28
why other games do not have the issue and can be easily modded to taste
Not true at all. If you want the bug fixed, you have to provide a proper bug report, which includes:
  • Detailed description of the bug (not "inventory is broken", preferably with screenshots as demonstration)
  • Detailed information about your setup (device, OS, Minetest client)
  • Steps to reproduce given a similar setup (which actions to do in-game, what MCL2 version to install, which texture packs to enable...)
If the above are not present, there is not much we can do to fix the bug.
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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.66.1]

by bzt » Post

cuthbertdoublebarrel wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 10:28
why other games do not have the issue and can be easily modded to taste
Although @LMD's answer is perfectly correct, I feel it does not answer the second part of your question.

When Minetest was first written, it provided not just Lua bindings with the engine, but also a Lua library for the games. That library is called "default", and Minetest Game being its most prominent user. Therefore all games that took MTG as base or forked from MTG in any way also depend on that library. Many mods also depend on it too. Over time that "default" mod got very bloated which considerably slows down servers, so Wuzzy started anew base library which has all the components in a modular structure. Unfortunately this also means that mods which have "default" as dependency, can't be enabled under MCL2, and vice versa, modules which depend on "mcl_core" (and/or its submodules) can't be used with MTG.

So you can mod both MTG and MCL2 to your taste, it's just you have two different sets of mods to choose from. Hope this makes sense.

Of course there are mods which do not depend neither on "default" nor on "mcl_core", those can be used for both games. One that I always enable for all games for example is "wielded_light". I hope Wuzzy will add it to MCL2, then I won't have to enable any additional modules at all. The other one I frequently use, "findbiomes" has already been added recently. :-)

Cheers,
bzt

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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.66.1]

by kay27 » Post

WarHawk wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 02:44
just noticed recently that endermen cant seem to pick up and move TNT blocks. i think in minecraft they do have this ability.
just added latest enderman's commit 046bca10 to check on my home server and literally can't defeat him (VIDEO) (but at least he stopped digging protected blocks) - but is it normal behavior for him? is there any success strategy against that? updated the issue #743

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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.66.1]

by Wuzzy » Post

IMPORTANT: MineClone 2 is ONLY officially supported by the latest stable version of Minetest! (currently, that's Minetest version 5.2.0)
If you use bleeding edge versions like 5.3.0-dev, you have no right to complain. This is a test version meant for testing and development, NOT for serious playing.

I don't know and I don't care (yet) what causes the supposed inventory or mapgen problems. The problems could be very well caused by Minetest, and I don't want to research this until Minetest goes at least into beta (for 5.3.0).

Just use Minetest 5.2.0 and it should work again.

Remember, -dev versions of Minetest are called “bleeding edge” for a reason. It has lots of rough edges, so don't complain if you cut your finger. ;-)
How to disable mobs spawning?
Click through the Minetest settings. All Settings → Games → MineClone 2 → ...
plz add and left hand if possible only for shields, rockets, maps and torches (they give light surround you if you hold them in that hand)
Everything of this is low priority. And it's not possible with current engine (but that could be changed, but again, low priority). But torch light while wielding will never be a feature of MCL2. You are supposed to put the torches down. This is by design.
also do you plan to update MC2 to the forthcoming version of MT ?
Yes, when the time is ready. Probably when a beta release is out, but definitely after the full Minetest release. I have consistently followed ALL Minetest updates since the beginning, so don't worry.
However, I don't hunt down bugs in -dev versions of Minetest while a release of Minetest is not being prepared. The reason is that Minetest will be still be too much in flux, and I need to keep my sanity. My experience showed that when I actually DID track down bugs that only appear in -dev, in most cases, it was a bug in Minetest, not MineClone 2.

Thanks to kay27 for the partial Russian translation. It has been committed!
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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.66.1]

by Chrysolite Azalea » Post

I'd like to ask, are there any plans to support mapgens other than v6?

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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.66.1]

by Lone_Wolf » Post

Chrysolite Azalea wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 14:14
I'd like to ask, are there any plans to support mapgens other than v6?
Pretty sure it supports all mapgens

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goats
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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.66.1]

by goats » Post

@ Chrysolite Azalea
I play on v7... pretty much all games, including MCL2. Never had a problem.

re: cuthbertdoublebarrel
I am not sure how i explained how MCL2 fails to display correctly. If by this you mean "don't use mods in games for which they are not designed", i suppose this counts?
Mobs are a lower priority generally but do get fixes eventually. Most Minetest games, mobs generally roll downhill and never up, so it seems a thing for which a developer must fight against the engine. (Or just make them all drown, leaving goodies all along shorelines.)

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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.66.1]

by cuthbertdoublebarrel » Post

goats wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 21:52
re: cuthbertdoublebarrel
I am not sure how i explained how MCL2 fails to display correctly.
you reminded me that MC2 is not based on MTG hence why it has issues with display compatibilty thus the reason why I have to mess with settings for MC2 only
Most Minetest games, mobs generally roll downhill and never up, so it seems a thing for which a developer must fight against the engine. (Or just make them all drown, leaving goodies all along shorelines.)
if you add mods to MTG they stand along the shoreline and not bounce up and down in the water .
i suggested to wuzzy to drown them instead of having to listen to the infuriating constant splishing and sploshing .
crafter is based on MC2 ,the issue was quickly resolved, no bouncy bouncy on water surfaces.
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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.66.1]

by Walker » Post

hi Wuzzy ... als ich gerade meine Backups anlegte und dabei die Log nach "ERROR" gefiltert habe kam ein neuer zutage ;)
ich hoffe du kannst damit was anfangen:

Code: Select all

2020-06-16 16:32:18: ACTION[Server]: bauprogamer [x.x.x.x] joins game. List of players: astra_astra Kasimir bauprogamer
2020-06-16 16:32:18: ACTION[Server]: [mcl_skins] Player skin for bauprogamer set to skin #1
2020-06-16 16:32:18: ACTION[Server]: astra_astra places node mcl_core:dirt at (-192,4,-730)
2020-06-16 16:32:19: ACTION[Server]: [doc] Wrote player data into /media/sda3/Minetest/server4/.minetest/worlds/MineClone2/doc.mt.
2020-06-16 16:32:19: ACTION[Server]: bauprogamer leaves game. List of players: astra_astra Kasimir 
2020-06-16 16:32:19: WARNING[Server]: ScriptApiBase::objectrefGetOrCreate(): Pushing ObjectRef to removed/deactivated object, this is probably a bug.
2020-06-16 16:32:19: ACTION[Server]: astra_astra places node mcl_core:dirt at (-192,5,-730)
2020-06-16 16:32:19: ACTION[Main]: Server: Shutting down
2020-06-16 16:32:21: ACTION[Main]: [doc] Server shuts down. Player data is about to be saved.
2020-06-16 16:32:22: ACTION[Main]: [doc] Wrote player data into /media/sda3/Minetest/server4/.minetest/worlds/MineClone2/doc.mt.
2020-06-16 16:32:23: ERROR[Main]: ServerError: AsyncErr: environment_Step: Runtime error from mod 'wieldview' in callback environment_Step(): ...minetest/games/mineclone2/mods/PLAYER/wieldview/init.lua:60: attempt to index a nil value
2020-06-16 16:32:23: ERROR[Main]: stack traceback:
2020-06-16 16:32:23: ERROR[Main]: 	...minetest/games/mineclone2/mods/PLAYER/wieldview/init.lua:60: in function 'update_wielded_item'
2020-06-16 16:32:23: ERROR[Main]: 	...minetest/games/mineclone2/mods/PLAYER/wieldview/init.lua:70: in function 'func'
2020-06-16 16:32:23: ERROR[Main]: 	...netest520/bin/../share/minetest/builtin/common/after.lua:20: in function <...netest520/bin/../share/minetest/builtin/common/after.lua:5>
2020-06-16 16:32:23: ERROR[Main]: 	...etest520/bin/../share/minetest/builtin/game/register.lua:429: in function <...etest520/bin/../share/minetest/builtin/game/register.lua:413>
2020-06-16 16:32:23: ERROR[Main]: stack traceback:
wie gesagt ... ich hab´s in den Logs entdeckt, weiß daher nichts näheres darüber ^^
wenn du möchtest kann ich dir natürlich weitere Log-Schnipsel senden ;)

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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.66.1]

by MirceaKitsune » Post

After giving this a try, I have to say it's currently the only standalone game that offers a full set of features and playability for Minetest without feeling broken or incomplete. Everything else is either very consistent but too boring and simplistic, either complex but to the point of being overly bloated with different mods having no consistency. Although it copies the vision of Minecraft rather closely, this game has a vision and particular aim to follow.

Main change I'd suggest after seeing what it offers is finding original alternatives for Minecraft specific factors while keeping its gameplay design, considering the goal isn't to provide an 100% port anyway. This would especially convern replacing all mobs that don't resemble real-life animals and are unique to MC, such as the zombie / skeleton / creeper / etc. Not removing them, just giving them new names and coming up with new creature designs and models that do similar things. It feels like what this game has going on is so good that it's a shame to take the cheap route and copy even the specific creatures to the letter, we could add in our own pieces of originality.

Beyond that I could see a few other additions being welcome, in terms of items and small ideas. One example that instantly pops to mind: I'd consider adding the bronze ore / ingot / tool variations from Minetest Game, as it would be nice to have copper as well on top of the usual MC elements. Also why not cover a few of the gaps original MC had, such as also allowing stone and wood armor? Just some thoughts, let me know what you think if you wish.

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Version 0.66.2 released!

by Wuzzy » Post

A bugfix release!
  • Fix crash after a firey explosion
  • Fix possible nil crashing bug in wieldview mod
  • Remove air holes in desert temple
  • Fix typo in music disc description (thanks, Li0n!)
  • Partial Russian translation (thanks, kay27!)
  • [Minetest 5.3.0-dev only] Fix controls mod causing a crash
  • [Minetest 5.3.0-dev only] Fix non-v6 mapgens generating stone-only world
  • Mapgen setting mg_flags is now recognized. Decorations, biomes, dungeons etc. are no longer forcefully enabled
Yes, I have abandoned my long-standing principle not caring at all about Minetest -dev. Why? Because -dev is in feature freeze, so it should be fine. :P
The recommended version for MineClone 2 is still Minetest 5.2.0, however. But feel free to report bugs in -dev anyway, but only because Minetest is in feature freeze right now.

I currently want to take a break from Minetest and/or MineClone 2 for now … more or less … So I won't work that much on it. Expect only bugfix releases. Also, I eventually want to reach a point in which I drop MCL2 completely, because I want to move on with other games and things. Maybe at the end of this year. Or maybe not. Lol.

However, behind the scenes some people, especially bzoss, are currently trying to implement a brewing stand, including status effects, potions, and all that. It's very WIP for now (and not part of the release). But it sure is exciting! :)

Replacing the monsters with reskinned, renamed and possibly even remodeled mobs is an idea I had before. But I need to up my graphics skills for that, and/or my modelling skills (which do not exist). If I want to keep this project going, I eventually might want to move the whole game into a more unique direction, at least on the general theme. Gameplay will probably still closely resemble Minecraft, but not perfectly. But yes, I do like the idea, I agree its a bit “cheap” to just copy the mobs.

I probably should be more specific about the project goal in future. Since MCL2 was never meant to be a PERFECT clone anyway, I should write down what exactly I do want to clone (and what not), rather than being vague. But currently, the biggest problem with MCL2 are the mobs. They aren't very smart. Sometimes I wonder if it's best to just burn them all to the ground and start over. Not sure …

About wood and stone armor: Nah, probably not. Definitely not stone armor! XD We have leather armor. However, leather armor might be weird in terms of balance if we're honest. It's quite an effort to get a full suit of leather armor and it's very weak, while iron armor is WAY better but not *really* hard to get. Adding any new armor will be a significant change from Minecraft, however. I don't know if I should care at this point. xD
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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.66.2]

by goats » Post

while iron armor is WAY better but not *really* hard to get.

It's even easier to get than i imagine whenever i come back to this game, forgetting just how bloody shallow the world is. You don't even need to go down to the effective max depth of -55 -ish to get it. The very first time i played, i did not realize this for a while, as i had started in the middle of desert and moved to lots-of-clay plus savannah biome was some 60 nodes or more above sea level.

Considering that you can punch trees, you can probably have iron before nightfall if that's your goal.

Generally i never bother with anything before iron armor except in the rare game that wants to kill you from the moment of spawn. In MCL2, armor is hardly necessary unless you aren't good at dodging Endermen should you choose to provoke them, or you walk into a mob spawner, or you have to navigate swarms of Magma Cubes.

More armor just seems like more work to balance and maintain.

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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.66.2]

by bzt » Post

@Wuzzy: please don't rename and reskin things. If you do, then call that by another name. It wouldn't be Mineclone2 any more... I don't know MC and frankly I don't even care :-) But I do care about MCL2, me and my boys like the way it is.

About that brewing stand, is the source available? Can we test it? I volunteer to help with testing and coding. My older boy is awaiting for that for a loooong time :-)

Cheers,
bzt

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Schems...

by kay27 » Post

bzt wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 16:02
Just create a "schems" folder under your world's directory, and copy the mts files there. Then I use my own mod to load schematics in-game
Thanks so much for the explanation and for the nice mod. I added it to my server and did several tests.
But I can't understand, whether it 'build into' the map generation process or I need to place all the schemes manually each time. Could you please clarify? I think, for game purposes, it would be not bad to have them randomly distributed in the world... By the way, I added a merge request with a bit more correct Russian translation.

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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.66.2]

by MirceaKitsune » Post

Thanks for your response. I can understand the game will probably not be maintained forever... except maybe if another team wishes to pick it back up afterward? This is one of the fewer games for Minetest with a solid and consistent basis, it seems like a loss if it too will stop being developed in the near future.

Another thought if I may: Perhaps this particular game can be maintained until the remaining little features are completed for the various mods (eg: Torch particles, snow spawning when the weather mod makes it snow, chest open / close animation and sound, etc). Once the code is ready, it could be branched into another game with the same mods and mechanics but an original layout and idea.

Regarding assets for new monsters: The original SimpleMobs mod had plenty of good quality models, such as the tree monster or stone golem. I even reused those in my Creatures branch and might do so in games later on! If you think they fit with your vision, re-purposing them too could be a neat idea.

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Re: Schems...

by bzt » Post

kay27 wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 09:12
Thanks so much for the explanation and for the nice mod. I added it to my server and did several tests.
You are welcome and thanks!
kay27 wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 09:12
But I can't understand, whether it 'build into' the map generation process or I need to place all the schemes manually each time. Could you please clarify?
My mod (just like Handle Schematics and Schematic Editor) is for world builders, therefore you use them to load schems into the world manually. That's what that simple and sophisticated Wand tool is for, to place structures interactively.
kay27 wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 09:12
I think, for game purposes, it would be not bad to have them randomly distributed in the world...
Yes, you are right. However this part is up to Wuzzy. He wrote the mapgen integration part as well as the mcl_structures mod. I could hack my boys' mts files into that mod, but since villages are not turned on by default at the moment, it wouldn't make any difference for the MCL2 game play. That's why I offered the schems here to Wuzzy instead.

I believe one of the main reasons why MCL2 has no villages because it doesn't have close-to-the-original-but-not-quite houses, and the schems (which are now removed from the latest MCL2) were basically block-by-block MC houses. You see, recreation of the original is okay (no matter how uncanny the resemblance is), but using original data as-is definitely not okay. The former is freedom of art, while the latter would be stealing.

Cheers,
bzt

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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.66.2]

by Nebbie » Post

I think MineClone 2 is pretty seriously incomplete to be abandoned (you can't even "beat" the game, run a village, or enchant items, which are like the only 3 basic endgame goals Minecraft even has!) As for mobs, I don't really see the point of it? Most of Minecraft's mobs are rather generic fantasy monsters for immediate recognition, and they do a pretty good job making for varied threats.

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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.66.2]

by MirceaKitsune » Post

Nebbie wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 07:49
I think MineClone 2 is pretty seriously incomplete to be abandoned (you can't even "beat" the game, run a village, or enchant items, which are like the only 3 basic endgame goals Minecraft even has!) As for mobs, I don't really see the point of it? Most of Minecraft's mobs are rather generic fantasy monsters for immediate recognition, and they do a pretty good job making for varied threats.
That's true for most mobs as they're fortunately based on real-life animals or common fantasy creatures. The Creeper or Enderman for instance are Minecraft specifics, copying those as-is might be seen as cloning a bit too closely. Others like the Zombie and Skeleton are common concepts but depicted in a personalized style by MC, I'd keep them but use slightly different designs to represent them. Just my 2 cents... in any case I don't consider changing this a priority, especially compared to finishing the remaining missing features.

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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.66.2]

by Revulent » Post

I noticed that the mapgen v7 caves in this game are much more interesting than the v7 caves in MTG. Why is that? Is there a way i can change the way the mapgen works to replicate it in MTG?

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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.66.2]

by avocamentum » Post

Nebbie wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 07:49
I think MineClone 2 is pretty seriously incomplete to be abandoned (you can't even "beat" the game, run a village, or enchant items, which are like the only 3 basic endgame goals Minecraft even has!) As for mobs, I don't really see the point of it? Most of Minecraft's mobs are rather generic fantasy monsters for immediate recognition, and they do a pretty good job making for varied threats.
For me MineClone is useful for groups--especially families--who want to play together quickly, before they know yes/no what they like or if they prefer to purchase of similar games. I think this will always be a need.

And to be clear, MC2 does that job right now, very well! Congrats to Wuzzy, who deserves support and rewards.

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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.66.2]

by avocamentum » Post

What might be interesting, moving forward
  • Easiest Survival (toggle) - my young kids initially prefer creative mode, but we transition into survival ... after I must manually do the following
    • Priv: Turn on flying
    • Give them a chest with a bed, some stone, some coal
    • Extra / if possible: Prompts to hit a tree, make a torch, time to sleep, etc.. Basically: "how to get the first achievements"
  • Easiness score - To help evaluate the spawn, first time you start the game, a summary sheet (or book to read?) that explained how abundant some early game items were near to you, such as trees, friendly mobs, iron ore, hostile mob spawners, grass blocks..
    • Goal = to quickly judge the current spawn, so having a green/yellow/red color scheme to compare these numbers with the world average
    • Also compare to a known "easy playable spawn" with instructions or "would you like to respawn to a suggested location" button.
    • Compares to local 200x200 region or chunk.
    • Example: As a beginner I repeatedly spawned in a large desert (or small island) and didn't realize that it was harder than it needed to be
  • Unique mob skins / Unique end game
    • My kids do recognize the other game's mobs, but in truth they also love any other mobs too.
    • IMO the conflict here is between broad recognition/familiarity, popularity -vs- unique feel or independent project goal. It's a tough balance.
    • Established devs: are you against skin theme packs that tie story / endings together? Similar to mtg, my thought is it ads fun and usefulness without having to heavily rework mobs. And retain the familiarity
      • Disclaimers, comments welcome
        • With the licensing there is risk that any popular themes produced here could end up in another game or mod, which can be depressing or curb enthusiasm. So I tried to think of themes that need skins only not the 3D models or motion , except for the bosses. I am ignorant (and hopeful) if there are already similar mods to reskin
        • the minetest vs MC2 philosophy discussion I can presume would revisit this this same theme or questions, not my intent. I prefer here to focus on making MC2 better
        • my search-fu is poor, anyone know other similar discussions?
      • Some theme pack for mobs + end boss ideas
        • Plastic goo problem
          • Setting: fight plastic pollution before it takes over the world
          • Creeper skin: Plastic Grenade salesman. Tries so hard to sell you more plastic that he blows up if you don't buy one in 3 seconds
          • Slime skin: a bag of plastic bags
          • Mutant plastic-string spiders
          • Living plastic skeletons
          • Mindless plastic lover zombies
          • Nether portal: plastic recycling center
          • End boss : Plastic pizza the hutt, a big pile of goo that takes many arrows to bring to the ground then break apart / etc
        • Opposite aliens
          • Setting: aliens have come to infect the world, making things dangerous and strange. Maybe water mobs can be on land and vice versa. Maybe there are mountains where you mine up (certain floating island mapgen?)
            Help restore the world to normal
          • Creeper skin: Love alien. Wants to give you a big hug before blowing up.
          • Slime: Liposuction alien. Help me get smaller please
          • Spider: Robot lawn mower on the loose
          • Skeleton: Alien chef has recipe ideas which he ties to arrows and gives to you, a lot
          • Zombie: Person with "I love aliens" T-shirt
          • Nether portal: Alien's winter land pleasure zone
          • End boss: A large alien in a suit wants to have a meeting with you and throws file folders with love letters inside at you. Wants the meeting to go on for ever. Must. Be. Stopped.
    Please let me know if this would be useful to repost somewhere else, too. Thanks

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Wuzzy
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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.66.2]

by Wuzzy » Post

Prompts to hit a tree, make a torch, time to sleep, etc.. Basically: "how to get the first achievements"
This is already on the huge todo list. Basically some kind of mini-tutorial. But it's also important to be able to get rid of it. Old players should not be annoyed with this.

About the spawn rating: Interesting idea. This could help in reducing “hard” spawns as well. It's bad if you're completely new and you spawn in the Mesa biome or even in an ocean. In MTG, there's already a spawn algorithm that avoids “difficult” biomes, it works pretty well. Yes, finding a good spawn should be done.

Hehe, interesting skin pack ideas. What you suggest is generally known as “total conversion” by the way. It has been popular with other games, a long time ago. A total conversion for MCL2 will not be official, however, but I still would definitely check it out.
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