[Game] MineClone2 [0.86]

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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.71.0]

by jjk1 » Post

I Just want to say, that getting iron by smelting iron Doors ist a recipe added by me on my Server.

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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.71.0]

by NO11 » Post

chmod 000 -R / wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 06:33
Yesterday I noticed that you can duplicate doors with screwdrivers, everytime you leftclick a door with it, the door will break into it's 2 blocks or rotate just fine, in both cases, it drops a new door, and you can continue doing this. Because iron doors are affected too and give a full iron ingot when smelted in a furnace, it theoretically can make that iron is notthing worth on servers anymore.

Bildschirmfoto vom 2021-04-11 08-30-17.png
It is currently being discussed anyway whether or not mc functions (such as the screwdriver) should be removed

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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.71.0]

by Nebbie » Post

In regards to the screwdriver, it is very frustrating in Minecraft to make technical builds without a modified client. I don't think it's all that bad to have that around, so long as it can be relied upon to not commonly have exploits with it.

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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.71.0]

by Linuxdirk » Post

Being able to rotate nodes should be a core functionality and should not depend on game-provided tools. Modders should only need to define if a node is rotatable or not ans hould not need to care about how to rotate a node.

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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.71.0]

by Fleckenstein » Post

It is currently being discussed anyway whether or not mc functions (such as the screwdriver) should be removed
I think I should give more information on this topic. Yes, we are planning to remove several items from MineClone2 for the reason that they are not in Minecraft. Please note that this is still being discussed; but it is not unlikely that the changes get merged into master.

Disclaimer: I will often use the terms "will" or "in the future", but I want to clearly point out that nothing has actually been decided yet. When using the term "we" I refer to the MineClone2 developers that support the removal of non-Minecraft features. (In particular, me and Oilboi support these changes, kay27 is against it.)

This post is important to server admins and people who play in singleplayer.

Q: Can I still play my old worlds?
A: Yes. Old worlds will stay fully compatible. There will be no crashes or unknown nodes / items.

Q: What will happen to the removed blocks or items?
A: We will make sure that everything that has been removed will be turned into similar blocks or items when you start your old worlds. E.g. Gold stairs will turn into a full gold block. (This is done using aliases)

Q: Will there be a way to re-add the removed content back into the game?
A: Yes, we will move everything into separate mods / modpacks. These modpacks will be supported for MineClone2, and they will be maintained by the MineClone2 developers. Currently the mod that re-adds the stairs, fences and the river water that will be removed can be found here: https://git.minetest.land/MineClone2/MineClone2Extra, and it will also be put on ContentDB soon. Like I said, this is still being discussed, but it will probably happen. You can install this modpack right now without any problems; but it is not needed until the changes have been merged.

Q: I accidentally started my old world before installing the modpack. What do I do now?
A: If you install the modpack afterwards, all the items in your inventory will turn back into what it they to be, e.g. the gold blocks in your inventory that used to be gold stairs will turn back to gold stairs, unless you placed them or something (Thanks to the way alias resolving works). Also, nodes that have not been loaded are not affected.

Q: What blocks are affected?
A: Currently, removing some extra stairs, slabs and fences is being discussed, as well as river water. River water will turn into normal water unless the modpack is installed. The nether brick fence gate as well as the red nether brick fence and fence gate are being removed, these will turn into regular nether brick fence. The stairs and slabs will turn into their full-block variants. Here is a list of all stairs and slabs that are being removed:
  • Tree Bark Stairs/Slabs
  • Lapislazuli Stairs/Slabs
  • Gold Stairs/Slabs
  • Iron Stairs/Slabs
  • Cracked stone brick Stairs/Slabs
  • Concrete Stairs/Slabs
We are also planning to remove the screwdriver and the help tool (including the builtin documentation system), but this will be done later.


Removing features from the game that have been there for years and have been added by the original creator is a very controversial thing to do. There are many people who are against it, and many who insist on it. The discussion has not been finished yet. However, everything that we remove will be maintained in separate modpacks. This will make MineClone2 less bloated. We will continue working on things like the help / documentation system, but they will just not be bundled with MineClone2 anymore. Minetest allows the user to easily select the content they want to have, so I think we should make use of that possibility. MineClone2 promises the player an imitation of Minecraft, so that's exactly what it should offer. Of course, we cannot make a perfect clone, but that does not mean that we should provide the user with new items and blocks. People who play minetest_game are probably used to customizing their experience with lots of mods - and the same will be the case for MineClone2 players in the future. As you might know, we are working on giving MineClone2 a good API, so all kinds of mods can be created with ease. It is not a coincidence that we remove non-Minecraft stuff and make mod support a lot better in the same update.

Many people might be especially unhappy with the removal of the help system. If you ask me, the help system is a great thing - but it should not be part of vanilla MineClone2. I'll say it again, the help system will not die, it will just not be part of MineClone2 itself anymore, we will keep working on it. The problem here is tho that people who need the help system might not know that it exists or how to install it, therefore we will probably display a hint when joining a singleplayer world for the first time that if the user needs help with anything, they can install the Help system using the Content tab in main menu. We will include a guide on how to install the help system from ContentDB.

We want MineClone2 to be closer to the Minetest philosophy. A Subgame should provide the basic content that is needed, and provide good mod support, and leave everything else up to the modders. With a few clicks you can restore the old experience, and even customize what you want and what not.

If you encounter any problems with your worlds or have any questions regarding the migration of blocks, you can get help right here in the forums, on the IRC channel, on Discord or by opening an Issue in the Issue tracker.
If you want to join the discussion, you should probably check out the Issue tracker (https://git.minetest.land/MineClone2/MineClone2/issues) or our discord (https://discord.gg/84GKcxczG3
). As mentioned earlier, everything is still open.
Last edited by Fleckenstein on Mon Apr 12, 2021 09:27, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.71.0]

by kay27 » Post

Inside information: then we plan to rename MineClone to "Minecraft Lua Edition" and ask Mojang for reward.
To be honest, seriously, I can't be supportive for that, though I don't plan to prevent Elias from doing that.

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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.71.0]

by Fleckenstein » Post

I would really like to hear Wuzzy's opinion on this topic.

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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.71.0]

by LMD » Post

kay27 wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 07:53
Inside information: then we plan to rename MineClone to "Minecraft Lua Edition" [...]
One word: copyright.
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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.71.0]

by rubenwardy » Post

LMD wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:26
kay27 wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 07:53
Inside information: then we plan to rename MineClone to "Minecraft Lua Edition" [...]
One word: copyright.
Actually: trademark
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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.71.0]

by kay27 » Post

LMD wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:26
One word: copyright.
Markus Alexej Persson (Minecraft creator) is a member of the Pirate Party of Sweden :)

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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.71.0]

by Nicu » Post

kay27 wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:32
LMD wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:26
One word: copyright.
Markus Alexej Persson (Minecraft creator) is a member of the Pirate Party of Sweden :)
Still not a good idea. :P

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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.71.0]

by JiCeyCraft » Post

I play MineClone as it is.
So, I'd like it to be as close as possible to MineCraft.
If something is not 'MineCraft-like', I aggree it should be removed.
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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.71.0]

by Nebbie » Post

JiCeyCraft wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 17:02
I play MineClone as it is.
So, I'd like it to be as close as possible to MineCraft.
If something is not 'MineCraft-like', I aggree it should be removed.
Very much agreed on 'Minecraft-like'...which is why I take issue with some of the apparent direction here.
Fleckenstein wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 07:26
Q: What blocks are affected?
A: Currently, removing some extra stairs, slabs and fences is being discussed, as well as river water. River water will turn into normal water unless the modpack is installed. The nether brick fence gate as well as the red nether brick fence and fence gate are being removed, these will turn into regular nether brick fence. The stairs and slabs will turn into their full-block variants. Here is a list of all stairs and slabs that are being removed:
  • Tree Bark Stairs/Slabs
  • Lapislazuli Stairs/Slabs
  • Gold Stairs/Slabs
  • Iron Stairs/Slabs
  • Cracked stone brick Stairs/Slabs
  • Concrete Stairs/Slabs
River water and the weird nether brick stuff I agree with, but I have a beef with the stairs and slabs. Yes, I know, gold stairs and slabs are kinda weird, but Minecraft 1.17 is adding copper stairs and slabs with a whole oxidation and waxing mechanic, and don't you tell me existing metals being available in stairs are less 'Minecraft-like' than that. Minecraft over time regularly adds in asthetic block variants as the versions go by, and nobody is being hurt by being able to have gold stairs for their gold block throne; if it were gold bars (iron bars but gold), I'd agree, because they wouldn't make realistic sense with how weak gold is and would look stupid to boot.
I'm somewhat concerned here that people are going to not realize they need the extra mod and end up with a ton of full blocks, ruining a build, and that later on, we'll be seeing Minecraft put these in anyways and the moving them out to an extra mod will look stupid.
We are also planning to remove the screwdriver and the help tool (including the builtin documentation system), but this will be done later.


Removing features from the game that have been there for years and have been added by the original creator is a very controversial thing to do. There are many people who are against it, and many who insist on it. The discussion has not been finished yet. However, everything that we remove will be maintained in separate modpacks. This will make MineClone2 less bloated. We will continue working on things like the help / documentation system, but they will just not be bundled with MineClone2 anymore. Minetest allows the user to easily select the content they want to have, so I think we should make use of that possibility. MineClone2 promises the player an imitation of Minecraft, so that's exactly what it should offer. Of course, we cannot make a perfect clone, but that does not mean that we should provide the user with new items and blocks. People who play minetest_game are probably used to customizing their experience with lots of mods - and the same will be the case for MineClone2 players in the future. As you might know, we are working on giving MineClone2 a good API, so all kinds of mods can be created with ease. It is not a coincidence that we remove non-Minecraft stuff and make mod support a lot better in the same update.

Many people might be especially unhappy with the removal of the help system. If you ask me, the help system is a great thing - but it should not be part of vanilla MineClone2. I'll say it again, the help system will not die, it will just not be part of MineClone2 itself anymore, we will keep working on it. The problem here is tho that people who need the help system might not know that it exists or how to install it, therefore we will probably display a hint when joining a singleplayer world for the first time that if the user needs help with anything, they can install the Help system using the Content tab in main menu. We will include a guide on how to install the help system from ContentDB.

We want MineClone2 to be closer to the Minetest philosophy. A Subgame should provide the basic content that is needed, and provide good mod support, and leave everything else up to the modders. With a few clicks you can restore the old experience, and even customize what you want and what not.
This I care a little less about because it truly is something that feels outside of Minecraft, but I must insist that quality-of-life things like this are really important to provide people for good gameplay. Minecraft has for years had problems with the lack of built-in help which screws with players doing what they want to. Nether portals are a particular area where it's been observed that players without checking a wiki are just completely lost as to what to do, and so Minecraft had to put in ruined portals basically just for that.

Yes, splitting these out may be a good move for the codebase, but I'm a little worried that you're trying to go about basically increasing a sort of "Minecraftness" of MineClone 2 via removing the non-Minecraft-like parts instead of putting in more Minecraft-like features. It could very well be wasting effort for no net gain or even a detriment to gameplay.

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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.71.0]

by DOOM_possum » Post

oh yeah, i like a lot of Things about MC2, i don't think they should be REMOVED, unless It is like a weekly MERCHANT that comes by trying to sell toy dinosaurs, if anything, the atmosphere is a wonderful starting point, for new player, and veterans, to make life again, from a simple zombie

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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.71.0]

by DOOM_possum » Post

the Diamond Pick Axe is easily modified, with LUA (if You need to slow it down):, and the creepers can be made to stop exploding, although i still just don't know, if there is a stronger version in the ((DESERT)) that would drop tech advancements, i just don't know anything about That

the SEED it's self is a beautiful World, if not a valuable One, and we will probably see some strange non-user generated structures, i'm just hoping to get some good SKY textures soon (Clouds)

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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.71.0]

by kay27 » Post

Let me inform you that Wuzzy have come to Mesehub and shared some his thoughts. As a result, some changes have happened.
I'd like to point you to Mesehub where we have so much issues unresolved: https://git.minetest.land/MineClone2/MineClone2/issues Some of them marked as high priority, elevated priority and critical - your thoughts would be helpful.

But the main reason why I'm here - I just watched latest youtube video of jordan4ibanez - https://youtu.be/007elsKWOZ0 and it just killed me and I thought I should post this link here. I think he is incredible person! I didn't think things like this could be ever possible for Minetest engine.

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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.71.0]

by LMD » Post

kay27 wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 19:01
But the main reason why I'm here - I just watched latest youtube video of jordan4ibanez - https://youtu.be/007elsKWOZ0 and it just killed me and I thought I should post this link here. I think he is incredible person! I didn't think things like this could be ever possible for Minetest engine.
This has been possible (not even all that complicated) since Minetest 5.3. Note that most of the mobs featured will probably stop being as smooth as soon as it starts heavily relying on clientside prediction (the higher the lag).
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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.71.0]

by DOOM_possum » Post

well, i found My first village, and it's great because it's Mine (funny?)

a strange flower cult has arisen, with a good sense of modern home living, that mixed with The Abandoned Mine, has My World feeling less confined, it's mainly just workers and scouts, but The Map has generated some Great Things so far, the only TOOL i can find to get the shop keeper to sell Me, are just a few different Things Here, and, There, for emeralds, but near His furnace there's already a Chest, full Of Items

a very cool place, if not surely dangerous

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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.71.0]

by Grigor » Post

Maybe you could get rid of the Help menu (blue circular button) but elaborate and expand on the descriptions (i.e for nether wart "brews basis for potions", or blaze powder "powers brewing stand"). Or at least let people know that Minecraft wiki can answer most of your questions.
I'm all for trimming the bloat out of MC2. Looking forward to the next version (and hopefully a return of nether quartz, nether wart, eternal fire, etc)!

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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.71.0]

by Nebbie » Post

kay27 wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 19:01
...

But the main reason why I'm here - I just watched latest youtube video of jordan4ibanez - https://youtu.be/007elsKWOZ0 and it just killed me and I thought I should post this link here. I think he is incredible person! I didn't think things like this could be ever possible for Minetest engine.
Looking pretty good and Minecraft-like when mobs are in their right environment, it is rather impressive. I will note though that the squids on land and cows in water are moving too fast, not just compared to the speeds in Minecraft, but also to their speeds in their normal environments; hopefully that's intentional for demonstration purposes, so things are pretty much all in order.

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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.71.0]

by DOOM_possum » Post

is There nether in this clone, would be silly not, to Have One ((my friend)) is working on a similar Game, i suggest taking a few pages from His ideas, He is taking engine limitations - and ALL That stuff - to The Max, by introducing "warps" from SEEDS, to new locations, and also what He calls "hog tying" Old Zones, for "regeneration", depending on where the player has been

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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.71.0]

by Leun » Post

Renaming this to Minecraft Lua Edition or Minecraft-like would be the dumbest idea ever.. you should avoid having the word Minecraft in any wording in the name of this Minetest game. If you must change the name of MineClone 2, I would name it something that didn't have the letters MC in it at all.. just my thoughts.

"Currently, removing some extra stairs, slabs and fences is being discussed, as well as river water."
I'm ok with this, best to keep things trim instead of bloated for better performance.

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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.71.0]

by kay27 » Post

Leun wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 21:20
Renaming this to Minecraft Lua Edition or Minecraft-like would be the dumbest idea ever..
That was my stupid joke, please forgive me. I'll better point you directly to what Wuzzy wrote, https://git.minetest.land/MineClone2/Mi ... ment-19813
Let's turn 10 likes into 20? People are missing Wuzzy, definitely.

When I've compared MCL2 with Crafter, I always thought what if their creators work together. Currently many features from Crafter are in MineClone 2 already, many people involved into MineClone 2 development. We're about to entering beta state. It will mean that we'll have 'beta production' code, it supposed to be more stable than alpha.

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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.71.0]

by Linuxdirk » Post

Leun wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 21:20
you should avoid having the word Minecraft in any wording in the name of this Minetest game.
You not only "should", you're also legally obliged to.

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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.71.0]

by Faussy » Post

Interesting portal dynamics: In MC, when the game spawns a new portal in a dangerous location, it will spawn the portal above the danger. So, if I built my portal near bedrock(-55.5) then entered it, the portal on the Nether side spawns on the surface of a lava lake, instead of inside the lava lake on the bedrock. However in Mineclone, the portal is spawned in the lava lake, on the bedrock(at -29062.5). Imagine my surprise when I stepped out of the portal, especially since I couldn't initially see the lava while in the portal blocks.

In addition to that, when reentering the, "lava death," portal, instead of ending up in the portal I built, Mineclone made a 3rd portal in another location; a scant -12.5 underground far from the -55.5 near bedrock. Thus, 2 portals now link to the lava death portal. I surmise that the latter happened because I built my portal against a rock face with only one side open. In MC, it just links you back to the original portal, unless it was destroyed(perhaps that changed in later versions of MC; I've not played it in a long time).

Specs,
Minetest v5.5.0-dev-4d0fef8
MineClone 2 v0.71.0
OpenGL 2.1
Raspberry Pi 4B 4GB
Raspbian GNU/Linux 10 (buster) 32-bit
Currently using: Minetest 5.5.0 MineClone 2 0.72.0 OpenGL 2.1 Raspberry Pi 4B 4GB Raspbian (buster) 32-bit

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